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Lidl fire extinguishers

blackrose

By blackrose
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blackrose Veteran II

blackrose

Posted
Posted

My inspection is coming up this summer and my extinguishers are out of date. I happened to notice that Lidl was doing the 1kg ABC powder fire extinguishers for £8.99. They look ok but I've no idea whether they're compliant? There's no kite mark but they seem to be up to EN3 standards whatever that means. Anyway I bought 4 on the basis that I could bring them back for a refund if they're no good. 

IMG_20180116_165412.jpg

IMG_20180116_165455.jpg

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Alan de Enfield Veteran II

Alan de Enfield

Posted
Posted (edited)
27 minutes ago, Machpoint005 said:

Check the rating (contents weight) - you might need more of them (eg one more) but that's not a problem as BSS specifies the total capacity. 

I think that you will find the BSS actually specifies the combined 'rating' .

A BOAT OVER 36 FEET MUST HAVE 3 EXTINGUISHER WHERE THE TOTAL (ADD UP ALL THE INDIVIDUAL RATINGS) COMES TO A MINIMUM OF 21A/144B

 

Your extinguishers comply with the specification but are undersized for your boat.

4x 5A = 20A. Minimum for your boat is 21A

4x 34B = 136B. Minimum for your boat is 144B

Different manufacturers use different 'stuff' and get different ratings for the same weight, you need another 1 extinguisher to comply.

 

You will find that 1kg extinguishers are pretty much a waste of time in a fire situation, and are unlikely to knock-back a fire to allow you to get to a door, you are unlikely to stop and pick up & carrty 2 or 3 extinguishers to enable you to get out.

I would suggest you take them back and replace them with 3 2Kg (or more) extinguishers, that way you have a chance of getting out if you need to.

I guess it comes down to "do you want a BSS pass, or for you to be able to escape a fire"

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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Alan de Enfield Veteran II

Alan de Enfield

Posted
Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, blackrose said:

I've just realised that 3 of my existing extinguishers don't actually have a date on them. How does one know if they need replacing or not? 

Don't worry - my boat passed it BSS with extinguishers which had a clear 'use by' date 6 years expired. (they were only in place for the examination to test the examiner - he failed !!)

 

3 of these were in place for the 2016 BSS inspection

 

Extinguisher 1.jpg

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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Chewbacka Veteran

Chewbacka

Posted
Posted (edited)

The ships wheel is an acceptable approval marking for BSS.

There is a min performance level for each extinguisher which is 5A/34B which yours meet, however you may not meet the total min level which depends upon the boat length.

It's all explained in section 6.1 of the BSS check list  -  https://www.boatsafetyscheme.org/media/268789/ecp-private-boats-ed3_rev2_apr2015_public_final.pdf

Edited by Chewbacka
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Quaysider Collaborator

Quaysider

Posted
Posted

as well as the ones that satisfy the BSS, we've got a couple of these now too... http://www.firetool.co.uk/je-50.html

I was quite taken with the demo I saw at crick the other year AND the fact the chap made no attempt to fool me into thinking the bss accepts them...  they DO however register in my head as my first attempt to put something out - without all the mess of powder.

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blackrose Veteran II

blackrose

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

I think that you will find the BSS actually specifies the combined 'rating' .

A BOAT OVER 36 FEET MUST HAVE 3 EXTINGUISHER WHERE THE TOTAL (ADD UP ALL THE INDIVIDUAL RATINGS) COMES TO A MINIMUM OF 21A/144B

 

Your extinguishers comply with the specification but are undersized for your boat.

4x 5A = 20A. Minimum for your boat is 21A

4x 34B = 136B. Minimum for your boat is 144B

Different manufacturers use different 'stuff' and get different ratings for the same weight, you need another 1 extinguisher to comply.

 

You will find that 1kg extinguishers are pretty much a waste of time in a fire situation, and are unlikely to knock-back a fire to allow you to get to a door, you are unlikely to stop and pick up & carrty 2 or 3 extinguishers to enable you to get out.

I would suggest you take them back and replace them with 3 2Kg (or more) extinguishers, that way you have a chance of getting out if you need to.

I guess it comes down to "do you want a BSS pass, or for you to be able to escape a fire"

Thanks, I can always get another one. I've got a 2kg C02 as well which won't be of any use for the BSS inspection but I'd always set that one off first for class B&C fires before letting off a powder one again. The mess was terrible. 

I have to disagree with your assumption on what I will find - I have put out a fire with a 1kg powder extinguisher before and I actually found that it was very effective. I guess it depends on the particular fire and whether the extinguisher is used properly. 

Thanks for everyone's input.

Edited by blackrose
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Rob@BSSOffice Proficient

Rob@BSSOffice

Posted
Posted

1) The date IS important, but only in the context of the express expiry date as in Alan's example that was wrongly judged to comply.

Warranty dates and manufactured dates are not important in the BSS examination - only the concept of 'Do-not-use-after-this-date' type statement will cause a BSS compliance issue.

 

The MED ships wheel mark on the box and canister shows the ANAF extinguisher that your branch of Lidl is selling can be considered in the compliment of compliant extinguishers aboard (and it's 5a 34b as stated on the canister).

Job jobbed....

 

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Phil Ambrose Veteran II

Phil Ambrose

Posted
Posted

What's the problem with CO2 extinguishers?

Having tackled a fire on my neighbours boat I was convinced that 1kg dry powder are pretty much useless we used 5 to knock out a small fire on his boat and it wasn't until I used a 2kg one that we managed to get the fire under control 

I went out the next day and got a 2kg foam plus a 2kg CO2 to go with my remaining 1kg powder x 3

I too would reach for the CO2 first as the mess left by the powder is unbelievable 

Phil

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smileypete Veteran II

smileypete

Posted
Posted (edited)

Get ones with a gauge, decent size ones (big enough for BSS, obvs)

Ikea do a 6kg one for £35 if you have their loyalty card (which gets you free tea and coffee too IIRC)

http://www.ikea.com/gb/en/products/ikea-family-products/safety/patrull-fire-extinguisher-dry-powder-art-70143350/

ISTR the BSS thing is for a number of smallish ones, hence my 'collection', but a small and BIG one might be better for most situations.

ETA looks like the 6kg ones can be had for £30 online, so Ikea aren't so cheap after all: :mellow:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/6KG-DRY-POWDER-ABC-FIRE-EXTINGUISHER-WAREHOUSE-OFFICE-INDUSTRIAL-24HR-DEL/360699167557

Don't know if the above has the right stamps for BSS, but I think the ikea ones do.

Edited by smileypete
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Alan de Enfield Veteran II

Alan de Enfield

Posted
Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, WotEver said:

The last time you posted that pic I observed that you could add 8 years to them with a little Tippex...

Indeed and that would not doubt give me a BSS, but, apart from actually just needing a BSSC I'd rather just take the manufacturers suggestion and replace it by their Best Before date.

I'd much rather have equipment on board that has a fair chance of working, than "just crossing the I's and dotting the T's" and thinking  "well I saved £10 by not replacing it" when it doesn't work .....Ooops !!

 

(Maybe I'm just OTT, but I service my lifejackets every year as well).

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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alan_fincher Veteran II

alan_fincher

Posted
Posted
12 hours ago, Rob@BSSOffice said:

1) The date IS important, but only in the context of the express expiry date as in Alan's example that was wrongly judged to comply.

Warranty dates and manufactured dates are not important in the BSS examination - only the concept of 'Do-not-use-after-this-date' type statement will cause a BSS compliance issue.

 

I'm glad you posted this Rob, as that was my own understanding, and hence I believe some of what has been stated previously in the thread to be incorrect.

Good to have clarification that any that has exceeded an "expiry" or "do not use by" date should not pass an exam, even if apparently visually OK, with any gauge in the right region.

In my experiences though none of many I have purchased in the last few years have such a date.  It tends to only feature on extinguishers that are really now quite old indeed.  I'm not sure how generally true that is in other people's experience, but that's been my observation.

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Rob@BSSOffice Proficient

Rob@BSSOffice

Posted
Posted
22 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:

In my experiences though none of many I have purchased in the last few years have such a date.  It tends to only feature on extinguishers that are really now quite old indeed.  I'm not sure how generally true that is in other people's experience, but that's been my observation.

Very good point Alan F. I should have mentioned that in our experience such extinguishers are quite rare. Alan dE's extinguishers are the exception rather than the rule.

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BWM Experienced

BWM

Posted
Posted
12 hours ago, Phil Ambrose said:

What's the problem with CO2 extinguishers?

Having tackled a fire on my neighbours boat I was convinced that 1kg dry powder are pretty much useless we used 5 to knock out a small fire on his boat and it wasn't until I used a 2kg one that we managed to get the fire under control 

I went out the next day and got a 2kg foam plus a 2kg CO2 to go with my remaining 1kg powder x 3

I too would reach for the CO2 first as the mess left by the powder is unbelievable 

Phil

Co2 will render you unconscious if used in a confined area but could safely be used for an engine fire on a cruiser stern, i.e. outside the boat.

 Size of fire extinguishers is much less important than using one correctly. 

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Graham Davis Veteran

Graham Davis

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Posted

Phil and others have completely missed the point on the purpose of these (small) sized extinguishers on a boat (or in a car, caravan or motorhome).
They are there solely as a First Aid measure, to knock back a fire enough for the occupants to get out safely.
Their very size is too small to effectively fight a fire, for that you need a big red machine!

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