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Jenwil

Auto throttle

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I’m now looking at generators from kipor and Clarke and notice they have this auto throttle feature, is there any way of just having the generator chugging along at lower revs as I do not wish to cheese off other people with high reving generator noise.

thanks.

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It only picks up revs when it is asked for more lectrical output. If you don't allow it to rev it will not give you any leccy

Edited by mrsmelly

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..... a bit like asking for a sumptuous feather filled double mattress you can fold up and put in a drawer in the morning.

  • Greenie 1

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4 minutes ago, zenataomm said:

..... a bit like asking for a sumptuous feather filled double mattress, but due to an allergy, mustn't contain any feathers

^^^^^^^^^^^^^

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My little Honda has such a feature and the switch is labelled with a tortoise and hare.  If set to tortoise it only revs up if he electrical demand is high enough. A random orbital sander makes it rev, a Dremmel like machine does not. It all depends upon the load applied.

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So for battery charging through a victron combi inverter charger, would that make it scream out?

I think the charger is a 100 amps!

Am I making sense I wonder as some of the replies seem that I may not be.

A bit like when you run the engine you can have it set how you want it to create the balance you desire, yes faster may mean more amps but you don’t always want it running faster.

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18 minutes ago, Jenwil said:

So for battery charging through a victron combi inverter charger, would that make it scream out?

I think the charger is a 100 amps!

Serious now............

 

It depends on the size of the generator, a 100 amp charger will require something in excess of a 1,600watt generator and to run it, it will be 'screaming' at high revs , if you have a 10,000 watt generator it will be purring along at tickover.

You need to either buy a generator to suit your charger, or, buy a charger to suit whatever generator you have / find.

You don't need a 100 amp charger, a 50 amp charger will charge in almost the same time.

Edited by Alan de Enfield

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26 minutes ago, Jenwil said:

So for battery charging through a victron combi inverter charger, would that make it scream out?

I think the charger is a 100 amps!

Am I making sense I wonder as some of the replies seem that I may not be.

A bit like when you run the engine you can have it set how you want it to create the balance you desire, yes faster may mean more amps but you don’t always want it running faster.

The genny will run as fast as it has to. So when you first plug it into the Combi with low batteries, it will rev away. But gradually, as the battery state of charge increases, the current the batteries can take will reduce and hence the genny rpm will slowly decrease. After a couple of hours and for the remainder of the long time it takes to fully charge a battery, the genny is likely to be running at its slowest speed.

 

Just by way of explanation, there are two types of genny. One type generates the mains voltage directly. In order for the frequency to remain at 50 Hz, the engine must run at a constant high speed normally 3000rpm regardless of the load. But inverter generators like the kippor generate low voltage dc and then convert it to mains voltage and frequency using their built-in inverter, so the engine rpm isn’t critical and just has to be enough to generate the power demanded. You want to make sure you have the latter type.

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5 hours ago, Jenwil said:

So for battery charging through a victron combi inverter charger, would that make it scream out?

I think the charger is a 100 amps!

Am I making sense I wonder as some of the replies seem that I may not be.

A bit like when you run the engine you can have it set how you want it to create the balance you desire, yes faster may mean more amps but you don’t always want it running faster.

If you have a Victron then make sure that the generator is of the inverter type, otherwise it won't work. 

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15 minutes ago, Jenwil said:

That is indeed an inverter genny and has a pretty clean waveform but it’s only 700W (continuous). So probably anything much over 150W is going to have it working above tickover. A 10A charger would do that (until the batteries are well charged).

It’s incapable of powering a 100A Charger if the batteries are reasonably discharged. 

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24 minutes ago, Jenwil said:

That won’t run a Victron Combi trying to put out 100A. 100A at let’s say 14v = 1400W, with some inefficiency in the charger say 1500W needed. So 800w is nowhere close. Even when you match the genny output to the steady-state demand, you often find that the start-up temporary load when you turn on the charger, is quite a bit more and will cause the genny to trip out. You need a 2kw one (which is probably actually rated at 1800w continuous).

Something like a Kipor IG2000.

Edited by nicknorman

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8 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

That won’t run a Victron Combi trying to put out 100A. 100A at let’s say 14v = 1400W, with some inefficiency in the charger say 1500W needed. So 800w is nowhere close. Even when you match the genny output to the steady-state demand, you often find that the start-up temporary load when you turn on the charger, is quite a bit more and will cause the genny to trip out. You need a 2kw one (which is probably actually rated at 1800w continuous).

Something like a Kipor IG2000.

I’ve read somewhere that the victron can be ‘dialled down’ so a lesser power generator can be used if such high charging amps are not needed ?

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42 minutes ago, Jenwil said:

 

I have one of those but badged differently. It is fine little genny but won't even run my 20A Numax three stage charger. 

When I turn the charger ON the current draw causes the genny speed to drop momentarily and the voltage falters, which makes the charger re-boot itself during which time the genny recovers speed, so the charger turns ON again and the sharp rise in load makes the genny speed drop momentarily... and the cycle repeats itself ad infinitum.

I bought a dumb 30A charger for £40 on ebay in the end to get around this. Works fine! 

Edited by Mike the Boilerman

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6 minutes ago, Jenwil said:

I’ve read somewhere that the victron can be ‘dialled down’ so a lesser power generator can be used if such high charging amps are not needed ?

Yes I believe so, if you have the remote panel with the rotary knob (I don’t have a Victron). So the absolute max current you are going to get is about 50A. Depending on the size of your battery bank I suppose that might be OK, but it’s going to be running flat out for hours unless you have a small battery bank.

Set against that, the IG2000 and its ilk are quite heavy.

Hmmm, what you don’t want to do is to buy the tiddler and then find it won’t run the Combi, and then have to buy the one you should have bought as well! Any chance that you could find someone with a ~800w genny to try it out?

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7 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

I have one of those but badged differently. It is fine little genny but won't even run my 20A Numax three stage charger. 

When I turn the charger ON the current draw causes the genny speed to drop momentarily and the voltage falters, which makes the charger re-boot itself during which time the genny recovers speed, so the charger turns ON again and the sharp rise in load makes the genny speed drop momentarily... and the cycle repeats itself ad infinitum.

I bought a dumb 30A charger for £40 on ebay in the end to get around this. Works fine! 

Do you have a link to the kind of charger you mean please Mike as I can’t affor or want a £500 generator sitting around.

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10 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

I have one of those but badged differently. It is fine little penny but won't even run my 20A Numax three stage charger. 

When I turn the charger ON the current draw causes the genny speed to drop momentarily, which makes the charger re-boot itself during which time the genny recovers speed, then the cycle repeats itself ad infinitum.

I bought a dumb 30A charger for £40 on ebay in the end to get around this. Works fine! 

Was that even with the “econ” mode (ie auto-throttle) set to Off? Such that the engine was already running at high rpm?

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3 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

Yes I believe so, if you have the remote panel with the rotary knob (I don’t have a Victron). So the absolute max current you are going to get is about 50A. Depending on the size of your battery bank I suppose that might be OK, but it’s going to be running flat out for hours unless you have a small battery bank.

Set against that, the IG2000 and its ilk are quite heavy.

Hmmm, what you don’t want to do is to buy the tiddler and then find it won’t run the Combi, and then have to buy the one you should have bought as well! Any chance that you could find someone with a ~800w genny to try it out?

I have 4 batteries but I only use a laptop and have a small 12 v tv but never run everything at once anyway.

Yes your right the kipor would be too heavy for me to lift.

Ive been offered the victron not got it as yet.

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Just now, nicknorman said:

Was that even with the “econ” mode (ie auto-throttle) set to Off? Such that the engine was already running at high rpm?

Made no difference. Happened in both modes. I think the Numax is actually dead fussy about its power supply. I also think it's a common problem which is why the Sterling Pro Charge Ultra marketing blurb mentions it being designed specifically to be run from a portable genny. I can see why now!

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1 minute ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

Made no difference. Happened in both modes. I think the Numax is actually dead fussy about its power supply. I also think it's a common problem which is why the Sterling Pro Charge Ultra marketing blurb mentions it being designed specifically to be run from a portable genny. I can see why now!

What’s the badge on your genny Mike ?

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6 minutes ago, Jenwil said:

Do you have a link to the kind of charger you mean please Mike as I can’t affor or want a £500 generator sitting around.

 

This charger:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/12-24V-30-Amp-Portable-Battery-Charger/282500525206?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

You'll need to be careful using it though. It is unregulated and runs up well over 16v as the batteries approach charged, which could easily feck up your fridge, telly, radio or anything else electronic turn on during charging.

You'll obviously need to turn it OFF to prevent battery boiling when charged too.

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1 minute ago, Jenwil said:

I have 4 batteries but I only use a laptop and have a small 12 v tv but never run everything at once anyway.

Yes your right the kipor would be too heavy for me to lift.

Ive been offered the victron not got it as yet.

Jen - read post #8

Now you have identified what generator you are talking about I would suggest that ideally you want to be looking for a 20 amp, multi-stage charger. (to avoid boiling and destroying your batteries)

It will take (probably) an extra hour to charge your batteries from 50% to 100% SoC when compared with a 100 amp charger, but you need one you can lift on & off the boat easily.

Remember that by law you cannot store more than 30 litres of petrol on board, and, you should not store it either in the cabin, or on the 'deck' - it should live in a separate locker (like the gas locker) with a 'drain' overboard so any fumes, or spillage cannot get into the boat.

The BSS certificate is much harder to achieve if you are storing / using petrol on board (it has to be as petrol is dangerous stuff)

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2 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

This charger:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/12-24V-30-Amp-Portable-Battery-Charger/282500525206?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

You'll need to be careful using it though. It is unregulated and runs up well over 16v as the batteries approach charged, which could easily feck up your fridge, telly, radio or anything else electronic turn on during charging.

You'll obviously need to turn it OFF to prevent battery boiling when charged too.

Thanks Mike.

is there anyway to have a regulated charge?

I suppose I need a battery monitor as I have no idea how charged they are other than the volts on my solar readout when it’s nighttime and showing the volts.

Gosh there are so many ins and outs to this lark.

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