Mike Adams Posted January 10, 2018 Report Share Posted January 10, 2018 My J2 installation has a stay bar mounted on the front of the forward cylinder and attached to the starbord side of the boat.Is this normal practice on a narrowboat as it seems to have caused some damage to the cylinder? I noted after reading the instuctions Kelvin suggest transverse mounts and mine are longways. I think mine is a rigid coupling( the end is behind the panelling) so I can't see it without taking of the t and g. Is the answer to beef up the engine beds? Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koukouvagia Posted January 10, 2018 Report Share Posted January 10, 2018 4 hours ago, Mike Adams said: Is the answer to beef up the engine beds? This is how the engine beds were strengthened on Owl. The engine is stable and there is no need for a stay bar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEngo Posted January 10, 2018 Report Share Posted January 10, 2018 The stay bar is best fitted to a J if you don't have the wide feet fitted ( The K is wider naturally), though I have seen several installations without one. Much depends on the beds and the mounting arrangements. Bergius expected the engine to be in a wooden boat on wooden bearers which is never going to be a stiff as a steel platform in a steel boat. The weak points are the two feet mounting bolts through the crankcase at each end. These are close tolerance special bolts in close tolerance holes. A wobbly engine causes wear either in the feet to crankcase holes (fairly easy to bush) and/or in the crankcase ( a black enamelled beggar of a job to bush). Check these bolts are tight. It sounds like your set up is not the best for stiffness if the main bearers are longitudinal so any improvement would be good. Longitudinal bearers must have made for a really awkward installation given the general engine shape. I would try to keep the stay bar, which is best to the PORT side of the engine because iit is in compression then, and have a look at the engine end. There is a shaped recess around the stay bar stud and the bar-end should fit this on the cylinder side but be flat on the other side. The stud is 7/16 I think. The detail of the recess is on the cylinder drawing IIRC and I will look my copy out if that would be helpful. I would also check that the stay is mounted horizontal, with a load path direct to the hull. T&g on battens is not really up to the task. Mine has a bit of 4x4 Douglas Fir between the flange at the end of the metal stay bar and the hull steel to cut down the vibration transfer. Regards N Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Adams Posted January 10, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2018 Thanks for helpful hints. The engine has been in the boat since 1987 so maybe nobody has checked the engine mounts. I appear to have a problem leak around the stay bar, which is fabricated. The cylinder has been brazed at some point and then covered with some sort of sealant so I cant clearly see the arrangement without taking it off. Do all cylinders carry the facility for mounting the stay bar or do I need a special one? I think the stay bar is welded directly to the hull behind the panelling. I would have thought some sort of rubber coupling/mount would have been better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gardner Posted January 11, 2018 Report Share Posted January 11, 2018 I owned a boat some years ago with a J2 installation complete with tie bar. The engine vibrated quite significantly to the extent that it had a habit of fracturing the rear engine mount which was made of cast steel. I think the tie bar had been some sort of attempt to eliminate the vibration, but the whole problem was a very poor initial installation. I now know from my present boat that with a correctly installed vintage engine, no vibration whatsoever should be present. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEngo Posted January 11, 2018 Report Share Posted January 11, 2018 Mike, all the cylinders should have the recess for the stay bar and a threaded hole for the stud. Only No1 cylinder is actually fitted with the stud as it will otherwise foul the next cylinder forward if fitted to 2,3,or4. The stud hole goes right through to the water passage so that may be the source of your leak rather than a crack. If you are thinking of swopping No 1 and 2 cylinders the only really difficult bit is getting at the nuts on the forward and aft cylinder to crankcase studs. A crowsfoot spanner is recommended if you don't have the special tool ( a crowsfoot spanner on a long bar with a hook and spring to go over the head stud) though a shortened OE spanner annd a selection of universal joints and a socket will get you there in the end. The first time I fitted a cylinder it took 6 hours struggling with the front/back nuts! Got the hang of it now! If you are really stuck I know of two places where there is a pattern for casting new cylinders. N Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom_c Posted January 12, 2018 Report Share Posted January 12, 2018 (edited) Here is a photo of a set of wide feet I have fabricated for a Kelvin, it is an F4 rather than a J but there are some similarities between the engines. The paraffin engines were never fitted with stay bars or wide feet as standard, I do know of an F2 with wide feet from a J fitted. Tom Edited January 12, 2018 by tom_c Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frodsham Posted January 8, 2019 Report Share Posted January 8, 2019 Hi again Mike, here is the rest of the correspondence as written in Model Boats Forum under Manchester Ship Canal - you have to log in to reply! In 2013? we fetched Frodsham back from Wrenbury and found it sluggish, on arrival at Stretton over 80 gallons of water was pumped out. Mostly tap water from a faulty shower pump/ sink outlet. you turned the tap on and water went over your feet causing the floor to rise up in 'waves' - it was in a shocking state- and why did they put the toilet tank next to the range in the back cabin? Not an item you would want to percolate I would have thought ! Give us a ring if you like, 01509 670549 Pat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray T Posted January 8, 2019 Report Share Posted January 8, 2019 On 10/01/2018 at 16:04, Mike Adams said: My J2 installation has a stay bar mounted on the front of the forward cylinder and attached to the starbord side of the boat.Is this normal practice on a narrowboat as it seems to have caused some damage to the cylinder? I noted after reading the instuctions Kelvin suggest transverse mounts and mine are longways. I think mine is a rigid coupling( the end is behind the panelling) so I can't see it without taking of the t and g. Is the answer to beef up the engine beds? Mike A bit late to the party but I found this on t' web. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave moore Posted January 8, 2019 Report Share Posted January 8, 2019 I don’t think that’s a Kelvin, Ray, at least not one I’m familiar with. We never had an issue with our J3 regarding a stay bar, but the beds were very solid, fuel tanks forming part of them on both sides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray T Posted January 8, 2019 Report Share Posted January 8, 2019 No idea what engine it is Dave. The picture was just to illustrate the stay bar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john.k Posted January 9, 2019 Report Share Posted January 9, 2019 Its green,so it must be a Lister.......FR2....freedom series? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEngo Posted January 9, 2019 Report Share Posted January 9, 2019 No. FR has a one piece rocker cover. I think it might be a CE. N Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steamraiser2 Posted January 9, 2019 Report Share Posted January 9, 2019 1 hour ago, BEngo said: No. FR has a one piece rocker cover. I think it might be a CE. N CE2s have a one piece rocker cover so I think it could be a CS...not a common engine in a narrowboat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john.k Posted January 9, 2019 Report Share Posted January 9, 2019 Another guess..the stay seems to be a repurposed steering tie rod from a car......what car? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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