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9 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

 Why must they be stored charged? I thought a selling point with these batteries is they can be left in various states of charge?

 

HAY I was saving that point for later on the thread!! 

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1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

See Post #3

I didnt read other posts. I would anyway want more than just some bod saying what they think they want you to hear on the phone I would want written confirmation on such as these batteries for my use.

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As I have said before, these Lithiums look very attractive, especially the charging characteristic and lack of sulphation if not fully charged. However, they are very expensive at present and there are safety concerns. I reckon get another set of lead acids for now and re-visit the lithium debate for the next set of batteries. My problem is that if I get one more set of Trojans they might outlast me so I will never get a chance to own a set of Lithiums.:D

..............Dave

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10 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

1) Ensure your insurer is aware that you have Lithium batteries on board.

2) Never lock your doors - you may need a quick exit

3) Ensure you have sufficient ABC* fire extinguishers on board to be able to beat back the flames to exit the boat.

 

* Despite their name, lithium-ion batteries used in consumer products do not contain any actual lithium metal. Therefore, a Class D fire extinguisher is not to be used to fight a lithium-ion battery fire. Class D fire extinguishers which contain dry powder, are intended for combustible metal fires only. Since lithium-ion batteries aren’t made with metallic lithium, a Class D dry powder extinguisher would not be effective. Lithium-ion batteries are considered a Class B fire, so a standard ABC or BC dry chemical fire extinguisher should be used. Class B is the classification given to flammable liquids. Lithium-ion batteries contain liquid electrolytes that provide a conductive pathway, so the batteries receive a B fire classification.

I'd imagine that any fire would quickly self-extinguish having burnt it's way through the bottom of the hull.

10 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Edited by BWM
Double

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Can they be charged at 0°C. I've read that charging at zero or below will destroy Lithiums. Ok, they should be above zero but what if we had a very cold spell? Some sort of heating would need to be considered.

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1 minute ago, Dr Bob said:

Some sort of heating would need to be considered.

Not if you were the owner of my newly invented Litho-fan (patent pending)

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2 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

Not if you were the owner of my newly invented Litho-fan (patent pending)

Dont tell me. A ecofraud on the back of the boat, wired in to the batteries - motion of said fan propelled by 1000 ducks sat on roof (arses faced backwards) and fed melon curry?

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22 minutes ago, Dr Bob said:

Can they be charged at 0°C. I've read that charging at zero or below will destroy Lithiums. Ok, they should be above zero but what if we had a very cold spell? Some sort of heating would need to be considered.

Yes it does say minimum temperature for charging is 0C. But that is only likely to be a problem with a cruiser/semitrad stern and even then, very rarely, surely. If in the engine bay you might very rarely have to run the engine a bit to warm the space up, before charging. But since there is no danger of sulphuric acid fumes or hydrogen, you could install them in the living space which hopefully is over 0C

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13 hours ago, Dr Bob said:

Can they be charged at 0°C. I've read that charging at zero or below will destroy Lithiums. Ok, they should be above zero but what if we had a very cold spell? Some sort of heating would need to be considered.

Wouldn't be a problem in our engine bay as we keep it heater well above freezing all winter.

We are seriously interested in these batteries as they offer not only better charging characteristics but are much lighter weight, a big consideration in a planing boat.

Hopefully in the next few years some of these initial problems will have been ironed out so to speak and they may be a better prospect the next time that NC requires some batteries.

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Thank you for the wide and thoughtful exportation of this. I see some similar discussion fro the RV world although most USA focused. The you-tube video is a good coverage also.

I do plan to raise some of the issues highlighted i.e. the charging aspects with the company who supplies these. 

My set up is a bank of 5  for the domestic: beta 43 with the higher powered 12v alternator for the domestic batteries, 3 x 110w solar panels with a MPPT and a sterling 3500w inverter/charger (which can be adjusted for the charge rate- looks like the Gel setting is closest)    So as current bank is fading but not yet gone have a bit more thinking time.

 

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6 minutes ago, Still-waters said:

Thank you for the wide and thoughtful exportation of this. I see some similar discussion fro the RV world although most USA focused. The you-tube video is a good coverage also.

I do plan to raise some of the issues highlighted i.e. the charging aspects with the company who supplies these. 

My set up is a bank of 5  for the domestic: beta 43 with the higher powered 12v alternator for the domestic batteries, 3 x 110w solar panels with a MPPT and a sterling 3500w inverter/charger (which can be adjusted for the charge rate- looks like the Gel setting is closest)    So as current bank is fading but not yet gone have a bit more thinking time.

 

If you have the 175A Iskra alternator I’d want at least 3x100AH batteries to keep the charge current down to reasonable value. The other thing to bear in mind is that the alternator will spend more time on full output and they get VERY hot. I would therefore try to avoid charging at low rpm (idle) because that maximises the pull on the belt, and minimises the fan speed (cooling). Whilst the alternator should be able to tolerate that in theory, it will probably shorten its life so something to be done as little as possible. Charging at 1200-1300 rpm will be much better.

i’d still recommend discussing it with the manufacturer as the charging voltage at minimal load (once the batteries are charged) may rise to 14.5v or a little more. Also there has been some concern about how rapidly the battery shuts down accepting current when the BMS declares it full, and whether that transient might upset or damage the alternator (because the regulator can’t react in time).

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I understand that at least one hire company on the Broads is using them and a narrowboat has just been built with them fitted from new. They have a blog but don't remember the name off hand.

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On 10/01/2018 at 11:26, ditchcrawler said:

I understand that at least one hire company on the Broads is using them and a narrowboat has just been built with them fitted from new. They have a blog but don't remember the name off hand.

This is the blog of the boat with lithium batteries fitted https://nblillyanne.wordpress.com/2017/01/12/clean-bill-of-health-12th-january/

 

Edited by ditchcrawler

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Sterling make suitable chargers , either shore powered or alternator controlled , when the prices drop I would not hesitate to move to lithium.

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1 hour ago, ditchcrawler said:

They have changed the address of the blog to http://www.oleanna.co.uk/2017/01/

Its an interesting blog, but I only got as far as them threatening to send their Lithium battery back if the 2nd one wasnt delivered from the US. Not found another comment on Lithiums after that in the next two months of posts. Have you been more successful than me in seeing battery references?

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5 hours ago, Dr Bob said:

Its an interesting blog, but I only got as far as them threatening to send their Lithium battery back if the 2nd one wasnt delivered from the US. Not found another comment on Lithiums after that in the next two months of posts. Have you been more successful than me in seeing battery references?

I posted it as a more ongoing topic,they are still very new, hopefully if they work well or they have problems we will hear about it

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20 hours ago, Dr Bob said:

Its an interesting blog, but I only got as far as them threatening to send their Lithium battery back if the 2nd one wasnt delivered from the US. Not found another comment on Lithiums after that in the next two months of posts. Have you been more successful than me in seeing battery references?

It's a long story which one day will be told but so far we still haven't got our three lithium batteries.

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9 minutes ago, Alway Swilby said:

It's a long story which one day will be told but so far we still haven't got our three lithium batteries.

 

Oh thanks for posting!

So what are you doing for batteries now? Running on just one lithium or is it still in a box awaiting its brothers?

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29 minutes ago, Alway Swilby said:

It's a long story which one day will be told but so far we still haven't got our three lithium batteries.

Nice blog! I will start to look at it. Yes, please tell us how you are getting on with batteries and your experiences even if it is just the one or two lithiums you have. There will be loads of peps on here who will be interested.

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18 minutes ago, Dr Bob said:

Nice blog! I will start to look at it. Yes, please tell us how you are getting on with batteries and your experiences even if it is just the one or two lithiums you have. There will be loads of peps on here who will be interested.

 

Seconded. Yes please do.

This forum to my surprise still doesn't have a single real live lithium battery user to tell us how great they are or about all the real life problems. 

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7 hours ago, Dr Bob said:

Nice blog! I will start to look at it. Yes, please tell us how you are getting on with batteries and your experiences even if it is just the one or two lithiums you have. There will be loads of peps on here who will be interested.

 

7 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Seconded. Yes please do.

This forum to my surprise still doesn't have a single real live lithium battery user to tell us how great they are or about all the real life problems. 

Well, we haven't got any lithiums fitted yet. Our builder is still waiting impatiently to get all three 24v 50ah batteries delivered. Meanwhile we are running on 2 x 12v 100ah lead acids that they have loaned us. 

I will report back when get them fitted

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