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Winter moorings question


blackrat779

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I have a question about winter moorings, if you have paid for a winter mooring at a popular site, what's to stop someone taking your spot when you have to move to fill with water etc. Are there signs reserving that particular spot for your boat? How does this work in practice? 

Cheers,

BR

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7 minutes ago, blackrat779 said:

I have a question about winter moorings, if you have paid for a winter mooring at a popular site, what's to stop someone taking your spot when you have to move to fill with water etc. Are there signs reserving that particular spot for your boat? How does this work in practice? 

Cheers,

BR

I think the answer is in the FAQ section of the winter moorings page on the CRT website, it reads,".....While our winter mooring signage reads that sites are ‘permit holder priority’,we are taking a flexible approach and will allow visitors to moor there for the standard time period if there are spaces on the sites. If a permit-holder arrives at the site, they will have priority, and those not in possession of a winter mooring permit must be prepared to move off the site right away.....". They sell a certain number of moorings at the location so if another winter mooring permit holder from the same location chose to move into your mooring whilst you went to fill up with water you'd just have to go and moor where he was. If a non-permit holder arrived and moored there, stopping you from returning, it looks as though you can ask them to move. Not having used any of the winter moorings this is just my interpretation but in honesty, having seen some of the locations, I think if I wanted a winter mooring I'd rather find a marina space since the CRT winter moorings are quite pricey for not much in the way of facilities.

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Theoretically you can ask them to move if they haven't booked a winter mooring, but of course this may be inviting trouble, depending on their attitude.  You haven't reserved a particular spot. I'm on a winter mooring (the cheapest, but a pleasant spot!), and in fact before I moved in I asked a similar question of the CRT chap putting up the signs, namely what would I do if there was no room when I arrived.  As there is no requirement to display a winter mooring permit, there is no way of telling who has booked a mooring.  His answer was to phone CRT and he himself would come and sort it out.   If moving off for water, perhaps you could make up a temporary sign saying something like " WINTER MOORING FOR NARROWBOAT XXXXX _ PLEASE LEAVE FREE - BACK SHORTLY"   No guarantee, but it may save trouble.

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I havent seen a single winter mooring that is full, not just this year, ever. At the price have you considered going into a marina instead, water, electricity, elsan disposal, probably toilets, showers and laundry, some even have bar and club house with secure car parking.

 

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2 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

I havent seen a single winter mooring that is full, not just this year, ever. At the price have you considered going into a marina instead, water, electricity, elsan disposal, probably toilets, showers and laundry, some even have bar and club house with secure car parking.

 

Precisely. Winter moorings are a rip off with few and sometimes zero facilities. We are wintering in a marina with every facility within inches. Several shops, a good butcher deli, several eateries including a Thai restaurant, a pub and a cinema. Oodles of mud free parking etc etc and for not a lot more than a towpath winter CART jobbie. Of course life is too short to be in a marina other than in winter :rolleyes:

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They used to be a reasonable way of mooring for the winter . We had one at Kintbury  ( K and A ) for 5 winters. Handy  car park , 2 mins boat to facilities.   We lived aboard , so kept an eye open on the other boats  .  Marina now . 

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12 minutes ago, Bunny said:

They used to be a reasonable way of mooring for the winter . We had one at Kintbury  ( K and A ) for 5 winters. Handy  car park , 2 mins boat to facilities.   We lived aboard , so kept an eye open on the other boats  .  Marina now . 

Yes just a few years ago they were totaly different to the scheme now in use. Its known as Progress :rolleyes: or rapid backward movement.

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Guys,

Thanks for the replies. It seems the winter moorings are a bit of a rip off, at least with a marina you can see what you are paying for in terms of facilities. I'm not sure this is the case with winter moorings. One point I hadn't considered (thanks Mac) is that there is no way of telling who has a permit and who hasn't. You can't very well go asking boat owners whether they have a permit or not, the ones that don't aren't necessarily going to give you correct information anyway.

I think it will be either CCing for me or a marina.

Cheers,

BR   

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As a CCer I can't really see the point of a winter mooring unless you are working and just don't want the hassle of moving all winter. We need to move the boat at least once a week to top up with water and to empty cassettes, these sites have little or no facilities so you need to move the boat to get to the facilities, it's just easier for me to keep cruising if I'm going to be moving the boat weekly anyway.

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Well having been stuck above the Marple Locks closure and unable to get back to my home mooring, my winter mooring is by far the cheapest option at about half the price of local marinas (but about the same as my usual home mooring at Sowerby Bridge).  No facilities as far as water/ bog emptying, but that's not so important as I only visit the boat a couple of days a month in winter. Good pub 5 minutes walk away.  Friends a mile away who often walk the towpath and keep an eye on the boat.  Suits me.

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23 hours ago, blackrat779 said:

what's to stop someone taking your spot when you have to move to fill with water etc.

 

In reality, nothing. You're stuffed if the boat(s) are unoccupied, and CRT are of no help whatsoever.

Ask how I know!

12 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

I havent seen a single winter mooring that is full, not just this year, ever.

 

You obviously weren't here on the K&A last year4 then. Every VM was fully sold out. 

This year, hardly any are fully occupied. Just don't seem to be as many boats here this year.

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On 07/01/2018 at 23:07, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

 

You obviously weren't here on the K&A last year4 then. Every VM was fully sold out. 

This year, hardly any are fully occupied. Just don't seem to be as many boats here this year.

i am moored at Croredy lots from K&A in this area and seen a lot heading up north .

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On 07/01/2018 at 16:00, blackrat779 said:

Thanks for the replies. It seems the winter moorings are a bit of a rip off, at least with a marina you can see what you are paying for in terms of facilities. I'm not sure this is the case with winter moorings. One point I hadn't considered (thanks Mac) is that there is no way of telling who has a permit and who hasn't. You can't very well go asking boat owners whether they have a permit or not, the ones that don't aren't necessarily going to give you correct information anyway.

If you have a winter mooring, you get some "winter mooring" licence type discs to display on your boat.

Edited by Robbo
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2 minutes ago, Robbo said:

If you have a winter mooring, you get some "winter mooring" licence type discs to display on your boat.

 

On ‎07‎/‎01‎/‎2018 at 00:16, Mac of Cygnet said:

Theoretically you can ask them to move if they haven't booked a winter mooring, but of course this may be inviting trouble, depending on their attitude.  You haven't reserved a particular spot. I'm on a winter mooring (the cheapest, but a pleasant spot!), and in fact before I moved in I asked a similar question of the CRT chap putting up the signs, namely what would I do if there was no room when I arrived.  As there is no requirement to display a winter mooring permit, there is no way of telling who has booked a mooring.  His answer was to phone CRT and he himself would come and sort it out.   If moving off for water, perhaps you could make up a temporary sign saying something like " WINTER MOORING FOR NARROWBOAT XXXXX _ PLEASE LEAVE FREE - BACK SHORTLY"   No guarantee, but it may save trouble.

 

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2 hours ago, Robbo said:

If you have a winter mooring, you get some "winter mooring" licence type discs to display on your boat.

Yes, I've done that, but the FAQs specifically say that there is no requirement to display them, and in fact I've seen only one other boat with them on , even though I know others have a winter mooring permit.

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The mooring at Campbell Park in MK has moved slightly south and is now full. As last year, the WM at Stoke Hammond are also fully sold out.

I wholeheartedly disagree with WM in general to be honest. CRT aren't holders of the law so I don't agree that me paying them off for a period in the winter should make me exempt from the 14 day rule. In addition it irks me that CRT are effectively selling the same bit of towpath twice.

If I visit a WM and there happens to be a free spot I personally feel just as entitled to that spot as anyone else.

Chunterchunterchunter

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On 1/7/2018 at 16:00, blackrat779 said:

One point I hadn't considered (thanks Mac) is that there is no way of telling who has a permit and who hasn't.   

The ones who have are the ones that will still be there and getting enforcement notices stuck on them the day after they end.....whilst those who havn't will be the smug looking ones who are off at the first sight of good sunshine.

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Some boaters will say it’s not a mooring it’s just a made up idea that does not exist and will simply laugh at you for paying for a so called ‘winter mooring’

If it’s for winter is it offering shelter, convenience and comfort from the ‘winter’ if there is foul weather it’s reasonable in the circumstances not to move ta dahhh no winter mooring required.

It beggars belief why people go to great lengths to excuse CRT to take the mick with such nonsense but will play hell on Earth at customer services in their favourite supermarket over a pack of buscuits or ring up sky to ask them why they should continue being a customer.

 

Edited by Jenwil
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2 hours ago, Jenwil said:

Some boaters will say it’s not a mooring it’s just a made up idea that does not exist and will simply laugh at you for paying for a so called ‘winter mooring’

If it’s for winter is it offering shelter, convenience and comfort from the ‘winter’ if there is foul weather it’s reasonable in the circumstances not to move ta dahhh no winter mooring required.

It beggars belief why people go to great lengths to excuse CRT to take the mick with such nonsense but will play hell on Earth at customer services in their favourite supermarket over a pack of buscuits or ring up sky to ask them why they should continue being a customer.

 

Rather depends on your definition of foul weather.  If the canal's frozen, no you can't move. If it's just snowing or cold, yes you can.  I would think it would be convenient not to have to bother if you didn't want to, and you could get a WM somewhere within reach of shops etc.

As to whether CRT can charge you for a towpath mooring, I think that's been done to death.  They do it for long term moorings all over the place, so there's no reason I can see why they can't do it for a shorter period if they want to.  They charge at llangollen, although ostensibly because they've put power and water in, but you've still no choice but to pay. Once the principle's accepted, you can't moan if the application becomes general.

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6 hours ago, Arthur Marshall said:

Rather depends on your definition of foul weather.  If the canal's frozen, no you can't move. If it's just snowing or cold, yes you can.  I would think it would be convenient not to have to bother if you didn't want to, and you could get a WM somewhere within reach of shops etc.

As to whether CRT can charge you for a towpath mooring, I think that's been done to death.  They do it for long term moorings all over the place, so there's no reason I can see why they can't do it for a shorter period if they want to.  They charge at llangollen, although ostensibly because they've put power and water in, but you've still no choice but to pay. Once the principle's accepted, you can't moan if the application becomes general.

Actually if it’s reasonable in the circumstances not to move due to it being cold or snowing no you don’t have to move, been done to death also and I’m sure if you think about it long enough the reasonable reasons would be extensive.

If it’s snowing it’s cold enough for locks and boat surfaces to be very slippy and icy so my answer to anyone including yourself who think I or anyone else should move in such conditions would be much to the point of sod off.

Frankly if someone pays for a towpath mooring and they are happy doing that then that’s fine for them while others think it’s laughable and simply tell CRT to whistle and do just fine, such is life.

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15 hours ago, Jenwil said:

Actually if it’s reasonable in the circumstances not to move due to it being cold or snowing no you don’t have to move, been done to death also and I’m sure if you think about it long enough the reasonable reasons would be extensive.

If it’s snowing it’s cold enough for locks and boat surfaces to be very slippy and icy so my answer to anyone including yourself who think I or anyone else should move in such conditions would be much to the point of sod off.

Interesting view of what's reasonable to expect when living on a boat as a continuous cruiser, summer or winter. In summer, surfaces get wet and slippery because it rains a lot, and I'm afraid what happens in winter is that it gets cold. Unreasonable means it's likely to be more dangerous than usual, not that you have to put another layer on.  If it  looks like you're looking for excuses to overstay rather than reasons, CRT aren't going to be sympathetic.

You can't move if the canal's frozen over, but that has rarely happened for more than a week in most of the country over the past few years. The "reasonable reasons" aren't really that extensive as far as CRT's opinion goes, and that's the one that matters.  Having to wear thermal underwear and a woolly hat doesn't count.

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On 15/01/2018 at 12:11, Arthur Marshall said:

Interesting view of what's reasonable to expect when living on a boat as a continuous cruiser, summer or winter. In summer, surfaces get wet and slippery because it rains a lot, and I'm afraid what happens in winter is that it gets cold. Unreasonable means it's likely to be more dangerous than usual, not that you have to put another layer on.  If it  looks like you're looking for excuses to overstay rather than reasons, CRT aren't going to be sympathetic.

You can't move if the canal's frozen over, but that has rarely happened for more than a week in most of the country over the past few years. The "reasonable reasons" aren't really that extensive as far as CRT's opinion goes, and that's the one that matters.  Having to wear thermal underwear and a woolly hat doesn't count.

I’m not interested in Internet theory Arthur born from bored boaters sat on their backsides on a mooring bitching about continuous cruisers with little to no real life boating experience , slippy locks and decks due to frost and ice are more than reasonable reasons not to move and are the main differences from wet decks in summer.

Frankly if you come it with that on the towpath you would be told to F off as CRT have no issue with safety.

Edited by Jenwil
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