Smoke on The water

[nb Innisfree]

8 minutes ago, furnessvale said:

According to Tesla, their new HGV will accelerate like a Ferrari, have a range of 500 miles and be cheaper than even US freight trains which are 1.5 miles long!

Seeing will be believing!

George

Those figures may or may not be true but Tesla omit the payload specs, vital to operators, the extra weight of its battery pack eats into that payload. 

Also that 0-60 time of 5.5 secs  just applies to the tractor unit on its own. 

Edited January 5, 2018 by nb Innisfree

[furnessvale]

Just now, nb Innisfree said:

Those figures may or may not be true but Tesla omit the payload specs, vital to operates, the extra weight of its battery pack eats into that payload. 

Indeed, I did some calcs when they first announced this HGV and a minimum battery weight of 5 tonnes is involved.  Even then, the 500 miles range is an idealistic figure rather than real world.

George

[nb Innisfree]

1 minute ago, furnessvale said:

I Even then, the 500 miles range is an idealistic figure rather than real world.

George

As it always is. 

[mrsmelly]

Ive just googled Tesla cars to see what the price is and a quick look at secondhand ones on Auto trader .  I have an idea lets switch to talking about Ferraris and Lambos and Bentleys etc as that's about as real world as Tesla cars are. I would hazard a guess that less than one percent of the population could buy one even if they wanted to. So how long do we think the technology is going to take so I can afford to buy a faultless one like my old Rav 4 which I paid £1250 for eighteen months and 22k miles ago and so far practicaly no other costs and still worth £ 1250?

[Heartland]

I recall the last Tesla we had on display at the NEC was some £88,000 to purchase, a little cheaper than a hydrogen powered vehicle which also there last year.

Is it not of interest to see how these threads diversify into realms distant from the original subject, which is about narrow boats and Cambridge people complaining about the smoke emitted from stoves on boats.

There are of course other directions this thread can go and that includes smokeless zone and natural gas. Does anybody remember town gas being burnt off in readiness for the conversion ?

Also the reference to Shap and Carlisle. I seem to recall many moons ago being on a train going to Carlisle (with a Britannia Class up front) that had a  steam locomotive banker up Shap. So the bank was the other side of Shap summit to Carlisle.

 

[mrsmelly]

6 minutes ago, Heartland said:

I recall the last Tesla we had on display at the NEC was some £88,000 to purchase, a little cheaper than a hydrogen powered vehicle which also there last year.

Is it not of interest to see how these threads diversify into realms distant from the original subject, which is about narrow boats and Cambridge people complaining about the smoke emitted from stoves on boats.

There are of course other directions this thread can go and that includes smokeless zone and natural gas. Does anybody remember town gas being burnt off in readiness for the conversion ?

Also the reference to Shap and Carlisle. I seem to recall many moons ago being on a train going to Carlisle (with a Britannia Class up front) that had a  steam locomotive banker up Shap. So the bank was the other side of Shap summit to Carlisle.

 

The beauty of the forum is that just like in the real world conversations which we are doing via keyboard start on one topic and diversify hugely into all manner of topics just like a few mates in a pub.

[nb Innisfree]

49 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

Ive just googled Tesla cars to see what the price is and a quick look at secondhand ones on Auto trader .  I have an idea lets switch to talking about Ferraris and Lambos and Bentleys etc as that's about as real world as Tesla cars are. I would hazard a guess that less than one percent of the population could buy one even if they wanted to. So how long do we think the technology is going to take so I can afford to buy a faultless one like my old Rav 4 which I paid £1250 for eighteen months and 22k miles ago and so far practicaly no other costs and still worth £ 1250?

You can pick up a Tesla for 35 - 40k 

The long aim of Tesla was to make money from the wealthy with a luxury car to finance an affordable one, they are mostly on track with that. When you consider they are beginners in car manufacture they've done remarkably well. Model 3 is in the pipeline for around £30k and other manufacturers are taking up the challenge so it will prob take another several years for your  cheapo to appear. 

Cheapskate! 

[nb Innisfree]

Tesla CO Elon Musk is trying to fulfill a childhood ambition to change the world, he's already building space rockets that can land on a platform and is building tunnelling machines for his underground transport system. Fair does to the bloke. 

[bizzard]

34 minutes ago, Heartland said:

I recall the last Tesla we had on display at the NEC was some £88,000 to purchase, a little cheaper than a hydrogen powered vehicle which also there last year.

Is it not of interest to see how these threads diversify into realms distant from the original subject, which is about narrow boats and Cambridge people complaining about the smoke emitted from stoves on boats.

There are of course other directions this thread can go and that includes smokeless zone and natural gas. Does anybody remember town gas being burnt off in readiness for the conversion ?

Also the reference to Shap and Carlisle. I seem to recall many moons ago being on a train going to Carlisle (with a Britannia Class up front) that had a  steam locomotive banker up Shap. So the bank was the other side of Shap summit to Carlisle.

 

Banks both sides of Shap, but the southern side is a lot steeper than the northern side which is less steep but more drawn out.  Steam loco's hauling heavy trains northwards up Shap often did stop for a banker at Oxenholme, but not always, if the rail conditions were dry they'd often go for it. It was not a lack of power why they stopped for a banker, it was the fear of driving wheel slip ''lost adhesion'' and stalling on the incline. A steam loco unlike a diesel electric or electric loco's which lay down a smooth power through more driving wheels than a steam loco's which usually have only 6 coupled driving wheels and cylinders that deliver their power in huge separate thrusts which can easily induce wheel slippage, especially with a 2 cylinder loco like a Britannia class. The 3 and 4 cylinder loco's were of course better in this respect as the power was transmitteed a bit more smoothly.  Cylinders on steam railways are of course double acting, unlike most ICEngines which are single acting, in other words each cylinder admits steam front and back for power strokes. So technically a 4 cyl engine becomes an 8 cyl, a 2 cyl becomes a 4 cyl, and so forth.

[peterboat]

6 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

Yes he didn’t realise the range was only half that claimed by the manufacturer. What a pillock!

It isnt

[mrsmelly]

26 minutes ago, nb Innisfree said:

You can pick up a Tesla for 35 - 40k 

The long aim of Tesla was to make money from the wealthy with a luxury car to finance an affordable one, they are mostly on track with that. When you consider they are beginners in car manufacture they've done remarkably well. Model 3 is in the pipeline for around £30k and other manufacturers are taking up the challenge so it will prob take another several years for your  cheapo to appear. 

Cheapskate! 

Skint skate acrtualy

[Edders]

1 hour ago, nb Innisfree said:

Those figures may or may not be true but Tesla omit the payload specs, vital to operators, the extra weight of its battery pack eats into that payload. 

Also that 0-60 time of 5.5 secs  just applies to the tractor unit on its own. 

To demonstrate  the potential and how fast the Tesla truck is, an FIA regulation racing truck (tractor unit) with 1200bhp can accelerate from 0 to 100kph (o to 62mph) in 5 seconds but only averages 1 litre of diesel per km.

[peterboat]

4 hours ago, nb Innisfree said:

Supercharging  isn't a prob if its only used for bulk charging, unlike lead acid its life is reduced by going to 100% SOC. Batts left for long periods on charge suffer.

EVs usually have a separate 12v batt for running ancillary stuff, main batt just for propulsion.  I think! 

It is or it was on my Twizy

[nb Innisfree]

2 minutes ago, peterboat said:

It is or it was on my Twizy

What, a problem? 

[Detling]

A supermarket I think it was Salisbury got some hybrid vans for use in London. They didn't last long, because of the extra weight of batteries and other gismos, this meant that thy could only carry 6 households shopping, unlike the 8 households on the 'normal' van whilst being under 3500 kilo's so anyone could drive it, this meant either 2 or 3 more trips per day (more hours of work) or more vehicles and drivers (more costs) they took the hybrid system out and had normal engines fitted after 6 months.  OK if the London T charge applied to commercial vehicles thing may have been different but it doesn't as this would vastly increase costs to business.

[cuthound]

2 hours ago, furnessvale said:

According to Tesla, their new HGV will accelerate like a Ferrari, have a range of 500 miles and be cheaper than even US freight trains which are 1.5 miles long!

Seeing will be believing!

George

If the "Honest John" real life factor applies to it, then it will have an average range of just 125 miles in real life conditions, so as much use as a chocolate teapot.

A quick 0-60 time is surely irrelevant on truck. Probably result in damaged goods if used to the  full 

I wonder how much it will cost compared to conventional trucks?

[Chewbacka]

We could go back to moving freight by canal or rail and using trucks for the last few miles.  Battery life now not a problem, but it may mean your Amazon delivery if using canals takes a week and costs more, but it will create jobs to make up for all the jobs lost to robots in factories, call centres etc.

[cereal tiller]

3 hours ago, furnessvale said:

According to Tesla, their new HGV will accelerate like a Ferrari, have a range of 500 miles and be cheaper than even US freight trains which are 1.5 miles long!

Seeing will be believing!

George

Will they be Oil.Coal or Lithium Fired? 

[Machpoint005]

On 1/4/2018 at 10:59, mrsmelly said:

Electric motors have " No Soul " how do we replace the awesome burble of a V8 petrol?

I bet they used to say that last century, when petrol and diesel started to supplant steam!

30 minutes ago, cuthound said:

If the "Honest John" real life factor applies to it, then it will have an average range of just 125 miles in real life conditions, so as much use as a chocolate teapot.

Isn't the problem that petrol/diesel is ubiquitous, so we all suffer 'range anxiety' when faced with a limited number of electrical points?

In our case, the Memsahib and I both have cars: she uses hers for local trips with an occasional longer one, I use mine for several-hundred mile round trips and occasional local stuff. We could manage well with a small electric car for local use and a big diesel for distance work -- but that would mean transferring a lot of personal crap every time we swapped. at the moment, there is no incentive. In future, who can tell?

[bizzard]

I don't think battery vehicles will catch on at all. I do think electric is the answer though.  I think they'll cover over the entire country with chicken wire and electrify it, at a height of about 10ft from the ground. The holes in the wire will still let the sun shine and rain through.  And resurface the roads with steel plate to complete the electrical circuit, and we'll all drive around in dodgem cars with a pick up pole sticking up at the back with steering wheels in the centre to fight over, all for 1/6d per 10 minutes.

[furnessvale]

2 hours ago, bizzard said:

Banks both sides of Shap, but the southern side is a lot steeper than the northern side which is less steep but more drawn out.  Steam loco's hauling heavy trains northwards up Shap often did stop for a banker at Oxenholme, but not always, if the rail conditions were dry they'd often go for it. It was not a lack of power why they stopped for a banker, it was the fear of driving wheel slip ''lost adhesion'' and stalling on the incline. A steam loco unlike a diesel electric or electric loco's which lay down a smooth power through more driving wheels than a steam loco's which usually have only 6 coupled driving wheels and cylinders that deliver their power in huge separate thrusts which can easily induce wheel slippage, especially with a 2 cylinder loco like a Britannia class. The 3 and 4 cylinder loco's were of course better in this respect as the power was transmitteed a bit more smoothly.  Cylinders on steam railways are of course double acting, unlike most ICEngines which are single acting, in other words each cylinder admits steam front and back for power strokes. So technically a 4 cyl engine becomes an 8 cyl, a 2 cyl becomes a 4 cyl, and so forth.

Slight detail correction.

Bankers were picked up at Oxenholme for Grayrigg.  These were dropped off at Grayrigg summit and a separate banker collected at Tebay for the ascent of Shap itself.

George

[cuthound]

28 minutes ago, Machpoint005 said:

I bet they used to say that last century, when petrol and diesel started to supplant steam!

Isn't the problem that petrol/diesel is ubiquitous, so we all suffer 'range anxiety' when faced with a limited number of electrical points?

In our case, the Memsahib and I both have cars: she uses hers for local trips with an occasional longer one, I use mine for several-hundred mile round trips and occasional local stuff. We could manage well with a small electric car for local use and a big diesel for distance work -- but that would mean transferring a lot of personal crap every time we swapped. at the moment, there is no incentive. In future, who can tell?

Sounds like you need a PHEV (plug-in hybrid electric vehicle), like the Mitsubishi Outlander. You can use the petrol engine for your long runs (although fuel consumption is much worse than a diesel on long runs), and Memsahib can use the electric motor for her short runs. 

[bizzard]

2 minutes ago, furnessvale said:

Slight detail correction.

Bankers were picked up at Oxenholme for Grayrigg.  These were dropped off at Grayrigg summit and a separate banker collected at Tebay for the ascent of Shap itself.

George

Ah, yes, quite right, thanks, I'd forgotten.

[WotEver]

5 minutes ago, furnessvale said:

Bankers were picked up...

I’d never pick up one of those greedy, self-serving, hard-hearted, selfish swine. 

[cereal tiller]

58 minutes ago, cuthound said:

Sounds like you need a PHEV (plug-in hybrid electric vehicle), like the Mitsubishi Outlander. You can use the petrol engine for your long runs (although fuel consumption is much worse than a diesel on long runs), and Memsahib can use the electric motor for her short runs. 

My Neighbour has an Outlander ,does 30 Miles on it's Battery pack .Don't Know if it has a Sprinkler System fitted ,or Ejection Seats.