Anchor

[Johny London]

Just thinking about getting an anchor - but I see there are many types, sizes and weights. Could anyone advise what would be suitable for my 62ft narrow boat? And chain/rope length/type etc. (A slight chance I might go out at Limehouse and up to Brentford).

I've seen a few called Danforth which look like they wont take up too much room aboard.

Thanks,

[MtB]

There are loads of threads on this. Have a search!

[WotEver]

This one covers it well:

 

[David Mack]

Just now, Mike the Boilerman said:

There are loads of threads on this. Have a search!

And loads of answers! 

Essentially, if you buy an anchor which meets the required criteria it will be too heavy to lift, you will need yards and yards of chain, and then there is the question as to whether you attach it to the bow or stern.

[Alan de Enfield]

4 minutes ago, Johny London said:

I've seen a few called Danforth which look like they wont take up too much room aboard.

Do you want an anchor that will work, or, one that is easy to stow ?

What Water depth will you be operating in ?

 

Ideally you need a minimum of 3x water depth if using 100% chain, 5x - 7x water depth if using 50/50 rope/chain and 10x water depth if using 100% rope.

I recently purchased a new anchor - it weighed 30kgs and cost over £600 - what is your budget ?

Are you physically able to lift a 20Kg + anchor and lower it overboard (not just 'drop it in').

[MtB]

1 minute ago, David Mack said:

And loads of answers! 

Essentially, if you buy an anchor which meets the required criteria it will be too heavy to lift, you will need yards and yards of chain, and then there is the question as to whether you attach it to the bow or stern.

 

I'd say it is essential to attach it to the bow or the stern...

[WotEver]

Just now, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

I'd say it is essential to attach it to the bow or the stern...

I’d agree with you on that. 

[Sea Dog]

I expect the answers you get or find in your research will almost all be those associated with anchoring as done by yachts or motorboats. The thing is, they anchor for the same purposes as we moor up and then they weigh again to continue with the cruise, so their boats are designed with routine anchoring in mind. Their anchor has to maintain a hold through a tidal stream change and also overnight or even longer.  For us, we need an emergency brake of last resort when transiting a river.  Frankly, recovery would be a bonus.  If you find an answer which covers a Narrowboat emergency anchor properly rather than just takes yacht/motorboat anchoring information as more or less direct read across, I'll be delighted to read it too!  

[LadyG]

42 minutes ago, David Mack said:

And loads of answers! 

Essentially, if you buy an anchor which meets the required criteria it will be too heavy to lift, you will need yards and yards of chain, and then there is the question as to whether you attach it to the bow or stern.

Yes, well, a modern anchor will be less weight than the traditional Danforth, and the Mantus is easy to store as it is bolted together. The Fortress is similar to the Danforth in stowablity but is far better for holding power.

I have not got a boat yet, but for a 50footer, for river use, I decided on a Mantus ... from Jimmy Green [others are available]

Mantus 11.4Kg £249 11mm green pin Certified shackle and 5m x 10mm chain end [Lofrans] total £324

I already have 33m of 20mm anchorplait, though 18mm would probably do, and ideally more chain, 

I chose the Mantus on fast setting, and handleability,  while still being reasonably priced. The Fortess was too expensive, but if i had a 60ft boat, and plenty of cash, and wanted  to do a lot of river cruising, I might think about the Fortress FX55, but its over £1000, just for the anchor. My gut feeling is that the Mantus should stop the boat first time. In an emergency, there is only going to be one time!

A shackle, swivel, plenty of 11mm chain and anchorplait could add on £500

 

 

The other consideration is when and where you are navigating, its a different cup of tea on the Thames with all the marine resources available at a few minutes notice, to being out in the sticks on a swollen river with an engine failure near a weir. 

 

Edited January 2, 2018 by LadyG

[Johny London]

Thank you guys. It seems like it will not be worth it for one trip then. What with the anchor, chain, rope and anchor point. I don't want to have to store it forever either. Unless anyone wants to lend me one? Mid Jan, Limehouse.

[LadyG]

26 minutes ago, Johny London said:

Thank you guys. It seems like it will not be worth it for one trip then. What with the anchor, chain, rope and anchor point. I don't want to have to store it forever either. Unless anyone wants to lend me one? Mid Jan, Limehouse.

But I don't think you have any choice if you are on the Thames at Limehouse, plus vhf and l/jackets etc. 

There's PLA regulations, and insurance considerations.

Edited January 2, 2018 by LadyG

[Keeping Up]

There are many charts which show the size of anchor that is needed for a given size of boat. As far as I know they are ALL completely irrelevant for narrowboats because they assume that a 20 metre boat is at least a 3 deck-high luxury yacht of several hundred tons in weight.

A Danforth anchor that is as heavy as you can throw overboard, say 20 or 25 kg, is just fine. You should have at least 10m of chain attached directly to the anchor to ensure it lies flat, and at least 10m of rope (ideally more) which can if necessary consist of all your existing ropes tied together, attached to the boat (then if you can't retrieve the anchor you can cut the rope with a carving knife).

Attach it to the bow (generally the T-stud is fine, if you know it's really well attached and as long as it isn't shared with any other rope at the time) unless you intend to travel downstream on a river that unlike the Thames is too narrow to allow you to swing right round, in which case you would have to use the stern. Assume that you will only need it in emergency, so retrieving it is unimportant.

Follow these principles and it needn't be expensive. But for the tidal Thames you do still need lifejackets and radio.

[Alan de Enfield]

20 minutes ago, Keeping Up said:

Attach it to the bow (generally the T-stud is fine, if you know it's really well attached and as long as it isn't shared with any other rope at the time)

The shock loading of a 15 tonne + NB coming to a stop will rip the T-Stud out on the majority of NBs.

The bitter end of the anchor chain should be attached to a specific strong point bolted thru (with backing plates).

As I have said on many previous occasions - inshore boaters practice and use an anchor (maybe) on a daily basis, Inland waterways users will probably never deploy and anchor BUT, if they do it will be in an emergency and it will need to work first time, with an instant 'set' and be properly attached. It will be of little use if it takes several 100 yards before it sets, the bitter end is not attached, or the T-Stud rips out - end result that you could be swept over the weir.

You put your boat / home at risk to save £300-£400.

Will you also buy some second hand, unknown history, lifejackets off E-Bay just to save a 'couple of quid' ?

[Keeping Up]

Actually I disagree because I don't believe that a 25kg Danforth anchor will ever bite so securely as to create that degree of shock loading. I have no evidence to support this but then I doubt that anyone has evidence to disprove it either. However to reduce the possibility of shock loading I do attach my own anchor warp so that it ties to several other points before it attaches to the T-stud; I wouldn't load the stud until it had first ripped out at least each of the two welded front seat supports and the bow fender attachment point (which is itself a strong welded loop).

[Alan de Enfield]

18 minutes ago, Keeping Up said:

Actually I disagree

Each time this discussion is held, there are a number of 'long time posters' who post stating that they have had it happen to them.

[MtB]

10 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Each time this discussion is held, there are a number of 'long time posters' who post stating that they have had it happen to them.

 

These are the ones who all perished over the weirs that are always in close proximity to every engine failure, yes?

[David Mack]

49 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

These are the ones who all perished over the weirs that are always in close proximity to every engine failure, yes?

A few years back Fulbourne had an engine failure on the Thames close to a weir.

But fortunately we were just below the weir, so we could drift back a few miles before facing that particular danger. Rather than risk the issues of deploying and recovering (or not) our anchor, I just dropped the mud weight (bucket of concrete) over the bow on the end of the front mooring line. It dragged a bit in the current but we were able to grab hold of some overhanging branches and so pull ourselves across to the bank and tie up. And then sort out the engine. 

[Bricksh]

8 hours ago, David Mack said:

A few years back Fulbourne had an engine failure on the Thames close to a weir.

But fortunately we were just below the weir, so we could drift back a few miles before facing that particular danger. Rather than risk the issues of deploying and recovering (or not) our anchor, I just dropped the mud weight (bucket of concrete) over the bow on the end of the front mooring line. It dragged a bit in the current but we were able to grab hold of some overhanging branches and so pull ourselves across to the bank and tie up. And then sort out the engine. 

There's a massive difference between, drifting along on the non tidal Thames in benign conditions and coming through London on the Tideway. For a start its going to be bumpy and dependent on time of day extremely busy with some pretty large vessels (= even more bumpy) any crap in the fuel tank can easily get into the filters and stop the engine. Although the flood tide flow is less than the ebb, it can still be significant especially on spring tides. If you feel you need to do it, make sure you are properly prepared. Also have a read of the St Pancras Cruising Club web site and the old BW tideway guides.

[Naughty Cal]

12 hours ago, Johny London said:

Thank you guys. It seems like it will not be worth it for one trip then. What with the anchor, chain, rope and anchor point. I don't want to have to store it forever either. Unless anyone wants to lend me one? Mid Jan, Limehouse.

How do you know that you won't break down on that one trip?

[cuthound]

11 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

These are the ones who all perished over the weirs that are always in close proximity to every engine failure, yes?

Presumably they contact the forum to tell of their experiences by ouigi board? 

[alan_fincher]

I thought, (but have not gone looking), that it had previously been suggested that a Danforth type anchor was unlikely to be much use on the tidal Thames coming out of Limehouse?

I'm not suggesting travelling without one, but on the couple of occasions we have done it, I had no great confidence it would actually be efective if needed.

Would it?

[MtB]

15 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:

I thought, (but have not gone looking), that it had previously been suggested that a Danforth type anchor was unlikely to be much use on the tidal Thames coming out of Limehouse?

I'm not suggesting travelling without one, but on the couple of occasions we have done it, I had no great confidence it would actually be efective if needed.

Would it?

 

Rather than risk needing to deploy an anchor in the deep and busy Thames tideway, a better way of mitigating the risk is to make the trip with at least one companion boat, able to breast up with you in the event of engine failure. 

[Johny London]

1 hour ago, Naughty Cal said:

How do you know that you won't break down on that one trip?

Because, I will only go out if I do have an anchor - there was no suggestion of not bothering with the anchor but still doing the trip.

I don't want to get bogged down in stuff about the navigating, I have made contact with a pilot.

Thanks to all, but especially Allan from Keeping up who seems to have given the most concise and pragmatic answers. It's 50/50 if I'll go Thames or back through boring dull London (well the Paddington arm certainly is that).

[MtB]

(Or would a tow be better in the rough and choppy waters of the tideway?)

[Tony Brooks]

That rather depends upon when you are on the tideway. I know CaRT lock hours ensure one would leave Limehouse when the trip boats were about but some years ago and hopefully this year we will leave Teddington in the very early morning (I hope its still manned 24 hours) and we will be off the tideway before too much commercial traffic gets going. Certainly the tidal Trent produced a larger wake from a passing boat that the tideway did.