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Vetus 4.65 cutting out advice please


Punk Stig

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As title- engine starts first time every time

However it randomly cuts out could be after 20 minutes could be after 5 but restarts every time.

Removed water separator and fuel filter- fuel is clean - removed the little filter in the fuel pump which by colour was dirty but don't have replacement to hand.

Had a similar thing earlier in the year which was a crusted up ignition so replaced that- I have checked this and it's clean!

Any ideas where I need to look next please?

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19 minutes ago, Punk Stig said:

Is that a case of inspecting every inch of fuel line?

Start with the filters, main and secondary.  Then the connections.    Mine was the filter bowl as it was cracked.  It may not be obvious either as it may not be leaking but still letting in air.

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56 minutes ago, Punk Stig said:

As title- engine starts first time every time

However it randomly cuts out could be after 20 minutes could be after 5 but restarts every time.

Removed water separator and fuel filter- fuel is clean - removed the little filter in the fuel pump which by colour was dirty but don't have replacement to hand.

Had a similar thing earlier in the year which was a crusted up ignition so replaced that- I have checked this and it's clean!

Any ideas where I need to look next please?

Am I the only one to be a bit mystified by this? I assume it means ignition switch but how that will stop aaa diesel with an "energise to stop" stop system is puzzling. Perhaps it was a bit of misdiagnosis.

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1 hour ago, Punk Stig said:

removed the little filter in the fuel pump which by colour was dirty but don't have replacement to hand.

I’d suspect this as most likely culprit. It used to stop my M3-10 quite often until I got into the routine of regular replacement. 

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1 hour ago, Tony Brooks said:

Am I the only one to be a bit mystified by this? I assume it means ignition switch but how that will stop aaa diesel with an "energise to stop" stop system is puzzling. Perhaps it was a bit of misdiagnosis.

Internals were completely knackered which I assumed was shorting to the stop position- at the time hot wiring the ignition (correctly in order going with wiring diagram) would run fine and new ignition solved that issue, symptoms to the last time are very similar which made me consider electrical problems

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4 minutes ago, Punk Stig said:

Internals were completely knackered which I assumed was shorting to the stop position- at the time hot wiring the ignition (correctly in order going with wiring diagram) would run fine and new ignition solved that issue, symptoms to the last time are very similar which made me consider electrical problems

Disconnect the wire to the stop solenoid. If the problem goes away it’s an electrical fault. 

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I've no experience of your engine model, but certainly others on here have found the small filter on the fuel pump to be an issue.

However, when we had Grebe she had a similar issue with her Vetus 2.06 cutting out at intervals.  Being trained/qualified on diesel road vehicles I checked the fuel system many times and never found a problem.  I even went to the bother of changing the mechanical lift pump to an electric one. It was while tucking the relay and wiring for this pump into the engine-mounted eletriclal box that a 'Vetus' loom wire got wiggled - and the engine stopped!  Restarted the engine, wiggled wire engine stopped.

It was the 'Stop solenoid timer' that was firing off uncommanded by the key-switch.  I fitted new timer unit and the problem went away for a while.  Second time I disconnected the stop solenoid and the problem went away.  Rather thn a second timer (over £100) I fitted a push button switch to work the solenoid directly.  It was not possible to easily fit a stop-cable to the pump or it would have had a cable fitted.

The timer operted the solenoid for about 15 seconds.  If you tried to restart the engine within this period -  zilch, - then after you have pulled into the side the engine an start again.

This is about my experience only your control set-up may differ.

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43 minutes ago, Grebe said:

I've no experience of your engine model, but certainly others on here have found the small filter on the fuel pump to be an issue.

However, when we had Grebe she had a similar issue with her Vetus 2.06 cutting out at intervals.  Being trained/qualified on diesel road vehicles I checked the fuel system many times and never found a problem.  I even went to the bother of changing the mechanical lift pump to an electric one. It was while tucking the relay and wiring for this pump into the engine-mounted eletriclal box that a 'Vetus' loom wire got wiggled - and the engine stopped!  Restarted the engine, wiggled wire engine stopped.

It was the 'Stop solenoid timer' that was firing off uncommanded by the key-switch.  I fitted new timer unit and the problem went away for a while.  Second time I disconnected the stop solenoid and the problem went away.  Rather thn a second timer (over £100) I fitted a push button switch to work the solenoid directly.  It was not possible to easily fit a stop-cable to the pump or it would have had a cable fitted.

The timer operted the solenoid for about 15 seconds.  If you tried to restart the engine within this period -  zilch, - then after you have pulled into the side the engine an start again.

This is about my experience only your control set-up may differ.

Just goes to show that a simple 'push to stop' operated solenoid is so much better than an automatic timer operated stop solenoid, clever stuff fitted just so you can stop the engine by turning the key.  On boats, simple is always the best and usually cheapest.

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57 minutes ago, Chewbacka said:

Just goes to show that a simple 'push to stop' operated solenoid is so much better than an automatic timer operated stop solenoid, clever stuff fitted just so you can stop the engine by turning the key.  On boats, simple is always the best and usually cheapest.

Yup. The M3-10 had just that (push to stop) and it was just so... simple. 

I recall a Coventry Victor single cylinder with a heavy flywheel on one boat (un-aptly named “Progress”) where you pulled a string to stop it. You had to be really patient because if it went over a single compression stroke after you’d let go it would very slowly restart.

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9 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

Am I the only one to be a bit mystified by this? I assume it means ignition switch but how that will stop aaa diesel with an "energise to stop" stop system is puzzling. Perhaps it was a bit of misdiagnosis.

Dodgy ignition switch can cut the Vetus electric fuel pump out, as can dodgy wiring harness connection plugs on the engine. Sometimes simply unplugging and replugging cures the problem.

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9 hours ago, catweasel said:

Dodgy ignition switch can cut the Vetus electric fuel pump out, as can dodgy wiring harness connection plugs on the engine. Sometimes simply unplugging and replugging cures the problem.

Agreed but the OP did not say "ignition switch" Because there might be other causes made me rise the point.

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2 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

Agreed but the OP did not say "ignition switch" Because there might be other causes made me rise the point.

Fair enough. I have also since noticed it is a vetus 4/65 not a 4/15 as i first thought.  This may not be relevant either, but some vetus have a blade type fuse at the rear of the engine just behind the rocker box. These ofen become oxidised and a quick unplug and replug can cure them.

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10 minutes ago, catweasel said:

Fair enough. I have also since noticed it is a vetus 4/65 not a 4/15 as i first thought.  This may not be relevant either, but some vetus have a blade type fuse at the rear of the engine just behind the rocker box. These ofen become oxidised and a quick unplug and replug can cure them.

Apologies for missing out 'switch' 

I'm quite sure any problems with the main fuse and it won't run at all but I shall check it out, thanks for all the advice so far people, not had chance to check any of it yet but will keep updated

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1 hour ago, catweasel said:

Fair enough. I have also since noticed it is a vetus 4/65 not a 4/15 as i first thought.  This may not be relevant either, but some vetus have a blade type fuse at the rear of the engine just behind the rocker box. These ofen become oxidised and a quick unplug and replug can cure them.

& seem have cylindrical fuses similar to a domestic 13A one in a bayonet fuse holder that do the same or the little bayonet lugs bend/fall off.

If, as the OP has now said, the ignition switch fell apart then its fair enough to conclude that was the problem but if it had not then it would have been a bit premature to change it without checking anything else. 

I have also had a problem on a Vetus involving the relay box thing some have on the back of the cylinder head.

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So, managed to have s look last night, after dropping the torch and the batteries frustratingly falling out on more than one occasion i couldn't spot an obvious problem, had the case off the solenoids on the back of the engine, wiggled the wires around and although then engine didn't cut out there were slight changes in the smoothness of how it was running.

Couple of things I noticed - one of the solenoids was vibrating considerably in comparison to the others so slightly loose in its fitting, I removed all 3 of them, terminals are clean, then taped this down along with the others to reduce vibration.

Also, the alternator was vibrating badly- the lower mounting bolt was considerably loose and the one to mount it to the top of the engine- these are no all tightened and belt at tension.

Ran for 30 minutes last night and 45 this morning no probs, don't like jumping the gun but is looking like a loose connection somewhere!

Thanks

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Vibrating engine? Check the engine mounts, especially the rear ones which have been known to fracture on the Vetus. The m16 nuts on the mounts often shake loose too. I have loctited and locknutted mine.
Thinking along a different path, intermeiitent cutting out can be caused by the fuel pipe picking up crud in the tank, then dropping it when the pump stops.

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