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Domestic water quality


jammin1620

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I'm interested to get people's thoughts and views on water quality onboard.

Obviously liveaboards and constant cruisers water tanks are in virtual constant use so the chance of bacteria build up or nasties for want of a better word is negligible. However those who use their boats once in a blue moon. Do you suffer from flue like symptoms after a shower or eye infections? 

Has the likes of legionaires disease ever cropped up on boats? In theory it should. Given the amount of water lying  in pipes/water heaters/tanks etc.  

You can get tablets to "chlorinate" your system. And in Spain you can get from the pharmacists a liquid form to pour in (this is not chlorine but is safe to leave in the system without having to neutralise or drain the system down). 

I do work in this industry so I'm not looking to be informed how to do it or with which chemicals.  I'm just interested in if it's something anyone has come across. 

My suspicions are that it won't be common place. Whereas in the industry it's very common in certain  situations/commercial areas. 

My work has led me to believe that the link to legionaires is down to a couple of things in water systems, water thats not hot enough, Dead legs (unused pipes cut off and capped), tmv's (thermostatic mixing valves), and unused end of system outlets like a bathroom at the end of a corridor used mainly as a store room. Cooling towers on roofs of buildings are the prime culprit and can be linked back to most outbreaks if your interested. Lancashire a few yrs ago and only recently Disney land florida had to close down the water parks because of their towers infecting people. Basically they hadn't had them cleaned and chlorinated recently or enough. 

Many thanks in advance

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I give the domestic water system a dose of sterilising fluid once a year. I litre of fluid in 250 litre tank and pull that through the pipes and leave it a few hours. Then flush out with fresh water.

Some people do nothing.

 

 

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Chemicals added to your water tank will only be effective for a week or two.  So, for most of the year you seem to do well with no protection!  Most tap water is safe, even if the chlorine level is down to 0,2ppm. 

Un-thickened domestic bleach is basically identical to Milton Fluid and can be used to sterilise any potable water system.  And if you dose correctly, you don't need to flush.

 

Edited by mross
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We boil all water from the main tank before consuming it or using it for cooking. 

For drinking water we just fill up a few plastic 5 litre water bottles from the stand pipe each time we fill our tank. You can get them (complete with some form of spring water) from places like Tescos for about £1. 

I'd never be happy drinking water from a boat water tank, well unless there was an emergency, 

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Legionella bacteria are dormant below 20 degrees and above 60 degrees c.

Any bacteria in a calorifier should be killed off over 60 degrees c.

I'm not sure about an instantaneous water heater.

I stopped using the heated water from my solar water heater as I was worried, that although it was hot enough for a shower, was not hot enough to kill legionella and the water vapour could have caused a problem (that and it froze one winter, damaging the panel)

I guess the important point is that  stored water should be above 60 degrees c before being used for showering to avoid potential problems with legionella.

From Wikipedia

Temperature affects the survival of Legionella as follows:[3]

  • Above 70 °C (158 °F) – Legionella dies almost instantly
  • At 60 °C (140 °F) – 90% die in 2 minutes (Decimal reduction time (D) = 2 minutes)
  • At 50 °C (122 °F) – 90% die in 80–124 minutes, depending on strain (Decimal reduction time (D) = 80–124 minutes)
  • 48 to 50 °C (118 to 122 °F) – can survive but do not multiply
  • 32 to 42 °C (90 to 108 °F) – ideal growth range
  • 25 to 45 °C (77 to 113 °F) – growth range
  • Below 20 °C (68 °F) – can survive, even below freezing, but are dormant
Edited by rusty69
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1 hour ago, Victor Vectis said:

Indeed.

(And we are still alive)

 

59 minutes ago, WotEver said:

Yup, I’m still here too. 


Yes, me as wel................................

Eeeeeeeeh Yakka-Boo, Yakka-Boo, Ooooo Yakka Boo

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1 hour ago, rowland al said:

We boil all water from the main tank before consuming it or using it for cooking. 

For drinking water we just fill up a few plastic 5 litre water bottles from the stand pipe each time we fill our tank. You can get them (complete with some form of spring water) from places like Tescos for about £1. 

I'd never be happy drinking water from a boat water tank, well unless there was an emergency, 

you are probably worse off by re-using plastic bottles, especially if you leave your bottles standing at room temperature in daylight

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2 hours ago, MartynG said:

I used this last time.......

http://www.poundland.co.uk/dr-johnsons-sterilising-fluid-1-litre

It might be cheaper at other retailers.

 

I thought this sounded promising, so I looked it up.

From the Dr Johnsons Safety Data Sheet:

Environmental Hazard - Aquatic Chronic 3 H412.

Hazard H412 - Harmful to aquatic life with long lasting effects.

Precautionary Statement P273 - Avoid release to the environment.

The majority of what comes out of our fresh water tanks ends up in the canal or river, so I'll be giving it a miss.

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14 minutes ago, Sea Dog said:

I thought this sounded promising, so I looked it up.

From the Dr Johnsons Safe the tapsty Data Sheet:

Environmental Hazard - Aquatic Chronic 3 H412.

Hazard H412 - Harmful to aquatic life with long lasting effects.

Precautionary Statement P273 - Avoid release to the environment.

The majority of what comes out of our fresh water tanks ends up in the canal or river, so I'll be giving it a miss.

And what do you think is in the water that comes out of taps

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Many thanks for your responses.

In response to rusty 69.  Quite right regarding your temperatures.  It is important to point out that legionella will thrive in conditions with rust, and scale. The worst culprit is the shower head and hose leading up to it. That little loop of hose and shower head itself holds water in. This is then cooled and the heated and cooled etc. All this time sat high up in the boat which as we know is the warmest part.  And shower heads accumulate scale so legionaires and other pneumoia familied bugs thrive. These bugs are in our water and soil no matter what we do its purely the 'breeding' conditions affecting the occurrence on my opinion. 

The other cases in our hospitals have been down to showers rather than taps or cooling towers.

After talking with a friend of mine on the subject tonight we both came to the conclusion that most would take bottled water as common practice. And or boil water as required. 

 

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1 hour ago, ditchcrawler said:

And remember they are not sterile. the water they had in them was not sterile when you bought them

We don't leave them in direct sunlight and the water from the standpipes have small amounts of floride and chlorine in it. 

Also this -

http://www.cancerresearchuk.org/about-cancer/causes-of-cancer/cancer-controversies/plastic-bottles-and-cling-film

Anyway we seem to be alive still too. 

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39 minutes ago, Sea Dog said:

I thought this sounded promising, so I looked it up.

From the Dr Johnsons Safety Data Sheet:

Environmental Hazard - Aquatic Chronic 3 H412.

Hazard H412 - Harmful to aquatic life with long lasting effects.

Precautionary Statement P273 - Avoid release to the environment.

The majority of what comes out of our fresh water tanks ends up in the canal or river, so I'll be giving it a miss.

All of it goes into the marina in my case - but not before the one litre of sterilising fluid is diluted with at least  250 litres of fresh water.

I consider that acceptable .

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7 minutes ago, rowland al said:

Perhaps it would be safer to drink wine or beer ........out of a glass bottle.

Wine is presumably the safer of the two as it doesn't have water added while beer is made with lots of water.

 

 

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46 minutes ago, MartynG said:

Perhaps it would be safer to drink wine or beer ........out of a glass bottle.

Wine is presumably the safer of the two as it doesn't have water added while beer is made with lots of water.

I have heard it suggested that bottles stored wrongly or outside for a period can have badly contaminated necks.  Not sure if it is true or not but if it is the drinking out of a bottle could also produce a health risk.

I long ago decided eating and drinking anything was harmful to your health, well if you believe every "news" item with regard to what causes what that is.

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