Volt/Ammeter meter ?

[WotEver]

Wayne, the size of the battery bank (220Ah) has little to nothing to do with the maximum current. You won’t be having a 100A charger, nor a 100A alternator, so you’ll get nowhere near 100A charging. With the equipment you’ll be putting on board the only way you could ever draw 100A (and then only for a short while) would be with a 1kW mains appliance powered by the inverter. I bet you don’t ever plan to do that, do you?

[mross]

If I were installing a battery monitor today, I would want one capable of measuring the load for a 3kW inverter.  240v x 13A is the standard UK socket.  At 12V, this is 250A and that's not allowing for inverter inefficiency.  So, even a BM with a 200A shunt is a bit behind the times. There are BM's with 500A shunts.

Edited December 14, 2017 by mross

[mrsmelly]

7 minutes ago, WotEver said:

Wayne, the size of the battery bank (220Ah) has little to nothing to do with the maximum current. You won’t be having a 100A charger, nor a 100A alternator, so you’ll get nowhere near 100A charging. With the equipment you’ll be putting on board the only way you could ever draw 100A (and then only for a short while) would be with a 1kW mains appliance powered by the inverter. I bet you don’t ever plan to do that, do you?

Just to add to this, if you do overload the BM1 you will not kill it what happens is the display gets very peed off and totally inaccurate until normal service is resumed. Don't ask me how I know this to be true.

[WotEver]

1 minute ago, mross said:

If I were installing a battery monitor today, I would want one capable of measuring the load for a 3kW inverter.  240v x 13A is the standard UK socket.  At 12V, this is 250A and that's not allowing for inverter inefficiency.  So, even a BM with a 200A shunt is a bit behind the times. There are BM's with 500A shunts.

However Wayne has a yoghurt pot, not a liveaboard 60ft narrowboat. 

[mrsmelly]

5 minutes ago, WotEver said:

However Wayne has a yoghurt pot, not a liveaboard 60ft narrowboat. 

 sixty foot!! Do they make em that small?

[W+T]

15 minutes ago, WotEver said:

Wayne, the size of the battery bank (220Ah) has little to nothing to do with the maximum current. You won’t be having a 100A charger, nor a 100A alternator, so you’ll get nowhere near 100A charging. With the equipment you’ll be putting on board the only way you could ever draw 100A (and then only for a short while) would be with a 1kW mains appliance powered by the inverter. I bet you don’t ever plan to do that, do you?

Not a clue as yet but nothing like you mention.

 

a quick list

12v 220Ah batteries

Honda EU10I genny 1kw

30amp charger

1000w inverter ( not sure properly yet as T will need to use her GHD`s 300 watts ) this will be more complex then for me, maybe a pure sine wave one or what ever.

about 14 LED lights amounts to about....god knows the power lol. 

TV 15watts 1.25amp 

But yes i want be using a 1kw mains appliance. 

[WotEver]

17 minutes ago, W+T said:

Not a clue as yet but nothing like you mention.

 

a quick list

12v 220Ah batteries

Honda EU10I genny 1kw

30amp charger

1000w inverter ( not sure properly yet as T will need to use her GHD`s 300 watts ) this will be more complex then for me, maybe a pure sine wave one or what ever.

about 14 LED lights amounts to about....god knows the power lol. 

TV 15watts 1.25amp 

But yes i want be using a 1kw mains appliance. 

From that lot 100A measuring capacity would be fine

51 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

 sixty foot!! Do they make em that small?

They shrink when they get wet. 

[W+T]

Ok i am going with this . 

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DC-120V-100A-Wireless-Volt-Ammeter-Power-Meter-battery-Charge-discharge-capacity/182211747540?epid=849818921&hash=item2a6caa9ed4:g:uLIAAOSwayZXj0U3

 

If i got two, so one for each 110ah battery, will it work for each separate battery or track the two batteries as one ?

[WotEver]

3 hours ago, W+T said:

Ok i am going with this . 

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DC-120V-100A-Wireless-Volt-Ammeter-Power-Meter-battery-Charge-discharge-capacity/182211747540?epid=849818921&hash=item2a6caa9ed4:g:uLIAAOSwayZXj0U3

 

If i got two, so one for each 110ah battery, will it work for each separate battery or track the two batteries as one ?

Surely the two batteries will be wired in parallel as a single bank? In which case you only need one. 

[W+T]

7 minutes ago, WotEver said:

Surely the two batteries will be wired in parallel as a single bank? In which case you only need one. 

Yes they will be. But I prefer to the keep check on each. Is that possible in anyway 

[WotEver]

2 minutes ago, W+T said:

Yes they will be. But I prefer to the keep check on each. Is that possible in anyway 

Well yes, you could have two of those gauges and add the figures together, or you could have three; one for each battery and one for the bank. 

However, if there is nothing wrong with the cabling then barring a manufacturing fault (very rare) you will find both batteries will perform identically. 

[IDS]

With the wireless config, instal the shunts in the battery -ve leads. Then you only need a single fused +ve feed wire for the electronics. The display unit will monitor both shunts, selectable on the display if you wish. (ie each display can access both units) The electronics in the shunt retains the accumulated charge/discharge data so it is not lost if the display is turned off. In the unit I tested the current drain of the electronics in the shunt was 20mA, and in the display 60mA.

Be aware the shunt packaging is crap and needs some sort of IP65 or better enclosure.

Edit - the packaging of the display is also crap certainly not weatherproof.

Edited December 18, 2017 by IDS
more info

[Chewbacka]

2 hours ago, IDS said:

With the wireless config, instal the shunts in the battery -ve leads. Then you only need a single fused +ve feed wire for the electronics. The display unit will monitor both shunts, selectable on the display if you wish. (ie each display can access both units) The electronics in the shunt retains the accumulated charge/discharge data so it is not lost if the display is turned off. In the unit I tested the current drain of the electronics in the shunt was 20mA, and in the display 60mA.

Be aware the shunt packaging is crap and needs some sort of IP65 or better enclosure.

Edit - the packaging of the display is also crap certainly not weatherproof.

Agree about protecting the shunt and it's associated electronics from the damp as well as impact, however you do need to consider the heat generated by the shunt if you put it in a small unventilated box.  Assuming the shunt is 75mV then a 100A shunt at say 75A will be 5W which is not a lot, but a 200A shunt at 200A will be 15W which is a fair bit.  As a comparison my little soldering iron is 14W.

[W+T]

11 hours ago, WotEver said:

Well yes, you could have two of those gauges and add the figures together, or you could have three; one for each battery and one for the bank. 

However, if there is nothing wrong with the cabling then barring a manufacturing fault (very rare) you will find both batteries will perform identically. 

In that case i will get one of the 100A for the two 110ah as i am getting a new pair and one of these for the starter battery to just to see what it has in it. 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/181874000546

 

 

[WotEver]

2 minutes ago, W+T said:

In that case i will get one of the 100A for the two 110ah as i am getting a new pair and one of these for the starter battery to just to see what it has in it. 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/181874000546

Note that the above meter doesn’t include a shunt, so if you wanted to measure current as well as volts you’d need one of these to go with it:

https://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/DC-Current-Shunt-FOR-20A-50A-100A-200A-500A-Digital-LED-Voltmeter-Ammeter-Panel/171906336574?hash=item28066a873e:m:mcV1cAcz-mC1SjelrssYCWg

[W+T]

8 hours ago, IDS said:

With the wireless config, instal the shunts in the battery -ve leads. Then you only need a single fused +ve feed wire for the electronics. The display unit will monitor both shunts, selectable on the display if you wish. (ie each display can access both units) The electronics in the shunt retains the accumulated charge/discharge data so it is not lost if the display is turned off. In the unit I tested the current drain of the electronics in the shunt was 20mA, and in the display 60mA.

Be aware the shunt packaging is crap and needs some sort of IP65 or better enclosure.

Edit - the packaging of the display is also crap certainly not weatherproof.

So are you saying that one meter with two shunts, one on each battery and the meter can has a display for each shunt /battery.

 

I will be making a battery cover so to keep water from the top but not damp. can they not be mounted inside or have they to be mounted on the battery terminal ?

 

Sorry to ask maybe daft questions but a lot of electrics is over my head. 

 

 

6 hours ago, Chewbacka said:

Agree about protecting the shunt and it's associated electronics from the damp as well as impact, however you do need to consider the heat generated by the shunt if you put it in a small unventilated box.  Assuming the shunt is 75mV then a 100A shunt at say 75A will be 5W which is not a lot, but a 200A shunt at 200A will be 15W which is a fair bit.  As a comparison my little soldering iron is 14W.

Yes the shuts on the kit i am getting is 100A 75mv. 

2 minutes ago, WotEver said:

Note that the above meter doesn’t include a shunt, so if you wanted to measure current as well as volts you’d need one of these to go with it:

https://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/DC-Current-Shunt-FOR-20A-50A-100A-200A-500A-Digital-LED-Voltmeter-Ammeter-Panel/171906336574?hash=item28066a873e:m:mcV1cAcz-mC1SjelrssYCWg

Ah, as the size is low i read that i dont need a shunt for it. Ah well is best get one of them aswell, then.

 

 

A little off topic here but have you an idea what size starter battery will do for a mid 1980`s 9.9hp 4 stroke outboard ?

[smileypete]

17 minutes ago, W+T said:

In that case i will get one of the 100A for the two 110ah as i am getting a new pair and one of these for the starter battery to just to see what it has in it. 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/181874000546

 

 

Why not get these for a little more that can read current in both directions:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DC-100V-200A-Voltmeter-Ammeter-Charge-Discharge-Isolation-current-tester-12v-24v/182623244034

As for the shunt I'd just make up a base using a couple of bits of decent hardwood and some bolts/studs, making sure there's some good ventilation to help it dissipate heat,

[IDS]

3 hours ago, W+T said:

So are you saying that one meter with two shunts, one on each battery and the meter can has a display for each shunt /battery.

Yes. The each shunt device is programmed with an address. The display then shows data from one device, and using a couple of button push operations, the display is switched to the other device. One advantage of the wireless connection ! Note I've not tested the wireless range in the boat environment yet. (e.g. shunt close to battery terminals under rear deck, display in cabin. there maybe a problem with a steel bulkhead in the way) With wireless connection you can move the display around easily without having to worry about wiring to the shunt.

3 hours ago, W+T said:

I will be making a battery cover so to keep water from the top but not damp. can they not be mounted inside or have they to be mounted on the battery terminal ?

Depends on your wiring configuration. If your batteries are in a nice environment you may not have a problem, but mine are a bit vulnerable. Battery negative leads tend to be short to the common point between engine and domestic banks, that's where it would normally be located, to see both charge and discharge current. So yes, close to the -ve terminal. (or +ve terminal with a configuration change in the unit wiring)

The mounting lugs on the plastic enclosure are really tiny and not suitable for purpose when you consider the size of the connecting battery cables on the studs, you will need to design a sensible mount, you cant let it float about on the cables.

The device I ordered was a 200A model, however the shunt is stamped 300A 75mV, so not sure what the differences really are unless they sent me the wrong one. Not done a high current test yet, and anyway in my environment 75A should be max current. So with two big heat sinks (the cables) bolted to the terminals I'm not worried about heat dissipation , in my case, about 3w max.

[jocave]

Following this as I'm looking for a similar unit to fit to my viking,,keep us updated to which one you chose

[W+T]

On 12/18/2017 at 23:18, jocave said:

Following this as I'm looking for a similar unit to fit to my viking,,keep us updated to which one you chose

Ok update on this.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DC-120V-100A-Wireless-Volt-Ammeter-Power-Meter-battery-Charge-discharge-capacity/182211747540?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

 

I got this delivered ( 200A / 75mv stamped on the copper plates as to 100A i ordered ) and after reading the instructions i have to totally agree on what you are all saying about them. In todays day and age why on earth is there nobody in Chine or Japan or wherever these come from and other products that can not put an English sentence together to be understood more easily.

 

Can anyone please help me out as to how to fit it

[Chewbacka]

This item looks the same as yours  - 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DC-Battery-120V-200A-Voltage-LCD-Digital-Current-Power-Capacity-Combo-Watt-Meter/162258794836?epid=1087116125&hash=item25c760b954:g:5oIAAOSw5cNYOonh

Towards the end of the listing are some 'instructions' are these the same as yours?

[W+T]

18 minutes ago, Chewbacka said:

This item looks the same as yours  - 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DC-Battery-120V-200A-Voltage-LCD-Digital-Current-Power-Capacity-Combo-Watt-Meter/162258794836?epid=1087116125&hash=item25c760b954:g:5oIAAOSw5cNYOonh

Towards the end of the listing are some 'instructions' are these the same as yours?

Much the same, well i still dont understand the jargon. It could be the way it is written as i dont get how it is wireless as it has a USB connecting the two boxs or i have no understanding of things like `headerprovides`.

 

[Ratkatcher]

Just now, W+T said:

Much the same, well i still dont understand the jargon. It could be the way it is written as i dont get how it is wireless as it has a USB connecting the two boxs or i have no understanding of things like `headerprovides`.

 

From how I see it from the link to the the 200A unit provided.

Take the back of the display box off

Plug the white jumper lead into the header and route out through the side of the USB connector

Connect this to your 12v supply via a suitable (low current) fuse

Connect to your Shunt assembly remotely (wireless) to the channel you selected.

All should then work

[W+T]

reading it, i read it as i need to connect the battery to the + and - posts,but then the get connected together,which to me is not right ?

 

blue + and red - join together inthe diagram.

[W+T]

5 minutes ago, Ratkatcher said:

From how I see it from the link to the the 200A unit provided.

Take the back of the display box off

Plug the white jumper lead into the header and route out through the side of the USB connector

Connect this to your 12v supply via a suitable (low current) fuse

Connect to your Shunt assembly remotely (wireless) to the channel you selected.

All should then work

 Thanks, am sooo thick when it comes to these things. 

2amp fuse ?

how do i select a channel ?

The shunt, can i wire it to the battery isolator or do i need to wire as close to the batteries as possible ?