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Extant full length butty's and horse boats


pete harrison

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There is often 'talk' of how many butty's are getting cut up and how few survive so just for fun I thought I would have a go at preparing a list of the current status of butty's, some of which were built as horse boats (I know, I should get a life !!!!!).

Every list has rules and mine are they must be full length and retain their original stern post, or at least a good part of it so that it could become a butty again fairly easily - and I am excluding anything B.C.N. including 'Mk.1 Bantocks'. Obviously these boats are a mixture of motorised (but not counter sterned), unconverted and converted. 

(m = motorised but retains butty stern)

G.U.C.C.Co. Ltd.

Small Woolwich (Iron Composite)

213 ARA

264 CRATER

265 CRUX

266 CYGNUS

326 PALLAS (m - hydraulic)

313 METEOR

216 ARGUS

384 VIRGINIS

293 HYDRUS (m)

292 HYADES

332 PICTOR

317 NEBULAE (m)

334 POLARIS

315 MOON

Small Northwich (Iron Composite)

304 LUPUS

271 DRACO (m ? - may have been un-motorised)

306 LYRA

300 LEO

249 CARINA

339 PUPPIS

355 SERPENS

307 MALUS

377 TOUCAN (left on the list as the stern is free standing and could be stuck back on fairly easily)

Small Woolwich (Steel Composite)

 203 ACTIS

215 ARGON

255 CLEOPATRA (m)

220 ATALANTA

235 BETELGEUSE

232 BELLEROPHON

247 CAPELLA (m - hydraulic)

268 DIPPER

Middle Northwich (Steel)

343 REGULUS

353 SCALES (m)

350 SARPEDON (m)

378 TRIAGULUM

370 TAURUS

301 LEONIDS (m - hydraulic)

Large Woolwich (Steel)

207 ALPERTON

201 ABOYNE

211 ANGEL

218 ASTON

222 AYR

226 BANBURY

225 BALHAM

227 BARNES

228 BARRHEAD (m)

229 BAWTRY

231 BEDWORTH

233 BELMONT

236 BEVERLEY

237 BIDEFORD

238 BINGLEY

224 BAKEWELL

239 BODMIN

240 BORDESLEY

242 BRIGHTON

243 BUDE

Small Rickmansworth (Wood)

 358 SIRIUS

217 ARIEL

290 HEBE

312 MERAK

309 MARFAK (m)

Large Rickmansworth (Wood)

252 CHEAM

261 COUGHTON (m)

277 ELTON

286 HADFIELD

287 HAGLEY (m)

303 LICHFIELD

299 LANGHO

336 POPLAR

346 ROMSEY (m)

360 SOUTHAM (m)

362 STARCROSS (m)

368 TAPLOW (m)

369 TAUNTON

 F.M.C. Ltd.

(?) (CASTLEFIELD - said to have its original stern under the modern counter)

AUSTRALIA (stern = MALVERN)

GOSPORT

HAMPTON (m - hydraulic)

HEREFORD

ILFORD

ILKESTON

IPSWICH

KILDARE

LONGTON

NORTHOLT

NORTHWICH

VENICE

VIENNA / VERBENA

 M. & C.C.C. Ltd.

DIAMOND

MERCURY

TAURUS

 B.T.W.

ALT

AWE (m)

CAM (m)

DEE

ELY

FAL ?

KEW (m)

RAY

ROE (m)

RYE

TOW

URE

WYE

YEO (m)

BENBOW (m)

DRAKE (m)

JELLICOE

KEPPEL

 L.M.S.R..

? (ELLESMERE)

? (ETHEL)

? (VALKYRIE formally and incorrectly named FORD)

CALEB (HERON)

FORD (JAMES)

GILBERT

HAM

MAY

NAPLES (m - hydraulic ?)

NORAH (DABCHICK)

OLIVE

RHINE (DITTON)

ROLLO (ALSAGER)

ROSS (BIRDSWOOD) (m - hydraulic)

SAXON (JESMOND) (m)

VENICE (LINCOLN) (m - ?)

VARIOUS (Wood)

CHANCE II (m)

FORGET ME NOT

GIFFORD

HAZEL (m)

MARIA

RAYMOND

SATURN

So at first sight it looks to me as though there are loads, and I have every confidence that I have missed several :captain: 

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So, at a quick count, well over a hundred, which is encouraging news. I do wonder how many of those "survive" as hulks which have little or no chance of ever travelling the canals again, though - we have seen one such sad sight in a recent thread on here, Forget-Me-Not possibly.

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Given the state it was in, I had assumed Taplow was probably broken up.  Do you know otherwise, please?

From my understanding Virginis is not currently a full length boat, but a kit of parts that could be rejoined to form a full length boat.

 

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15 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

And isn't the 'extant' status of RAYMOND a subject for debate?

Is it not a new boat built using the ironwork from the scrapped original? Or do I have that wrong?

And should Lucy be on the list?...............................

And what about Friendship?

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The condition of several of the wooden boats listed are perilous and some may now have been broken up. Unfortunately I am not absolutely up to date with these boats.

LUCY should be on the list and arguably FRIENDSHIP as well - I simply forgot them. In my opinion RAYMOND and SATURN are both borderline as they are both 'reproductions' rather than plank for plank rebuilds - but both are butty's / horse boat that incorporate iron parts from the original boats :captain:

edit = I am sure there must be a few more FM.C. Ltd. boats as well - including the one at Clattercote Wharf I have just thought of but was not named last time I passed.

Edited by pete harrison
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I notice Pete's list has no cut off date. Are there any modern welded steel fabricated buttys out there which therefore qualify for the list? I'm sure there must be.

Did Steve Hudson ever build a butty? Simon Wain? Roger Farrington? Graham Edgson? Dave Harris? Sam Springer? Liverpool Boats?

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3 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

I notice Pete's list has no cut off date. Are there any modern welded steel fabricated buttys out there which therefore qualify for the list? I'm sure there must be.

Did Steve Hudson ever build a butty? Simon Wain? Roger Farrington? Graham Edgson? Dave Harris? Sam Springer? Liverpool Boats?

the end of the carrying boats = 1962.

There are numerous welded / fabricated butty's such as those built as hotel boats as well as the one I used to work which was built in 1972 by John Pinder. The only one that I can think of that was built for carrying was PHOEBE in 1979 by Nigel Jackson and Cliff Sherwood :captain:

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6 minutes ago, Laurence Hogg said:

Best not to forget the dozen or so extant although buried in Hawtrey's pit at Harefiield. If HS2 gets its wicked way these may well surface during the prep work.

Thanks Mr Hogg, I just knew somebody would mention those :captain:

Just thought of another F.M.C. Ltd - named as KINGSDOWN and is a fuel boat around London.

edit = and GRIMSBY.

Edited by pete harrison
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26 minutes ago, pete harrison said:

The condition of several of the wooden boats listed are perilous and some may now have been broken up. Unfortunately I am not absolutely up to date with these boats.

LUCY should be on the list and arguably FRIENDSHIP as well - I simply forgot them. In my opinion RAYMOND and SATURN are both borderline as they are both 'reproductions' rather than plank for plank rebuilds - but both are butty's / horse boat that incorporate iron parts from the original boats :captain:

edit = I am sure there must be a few more FM.C. Ltd. boats as well - including the one at Clattercote Wharf I have just thought of but was not named last time I passed.

Raymond’s stem post is original I think so there is some original woodwork in it.

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1 hour ago, pete harrison said:

There is often 'talk' of how many butty's are getting cut up and how few survive so just for fun I thought I would have a go at preparing a list of the current status of butty's, some of which were built as horse boats (I know, I should get a life !!!!!).

Every list has rules and mine are they must be full length and retain their original stern post, or at least a good part of it so that it could become a butty again fairly easily - and I am excluding anything B.C.N. including 'Mk.1 Bantocks'. Obviously these boats are a mixture of motorised (but not counter sterned), unconverted and converted. 

(m = motorised but retains butty stern)

I know of a horse boat you have missed off your list that is full length and retains it's original stern post:

Dawn Rose

But then again you have not included a section for Chesterfield Boats so perhaps they do't count as they are "special" :captain:

Seriously though, it is often a source of deep discussion whether Dawn Rose is actually a replica or just the next boat to be built in the line (after an extended gap) 

Edited to add as she is a wooden boat built using traditional methods she probably might have counted but Pete cross posted his cut off period as I typed - although Dawn Rose has been used for carrying recently - she moved the replacement lock gates into place for CRT to replace the ones at Turnerwood 

Edited by cheshire~rose
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11 minutes ago, IanM said:

Raymond’s stem post is original I think so there is some original woodwork in it.

I would be extremely surprised if the stem post was original, although the stem iron clearly is - along with its horrible little 'T' stud :captain:

7 minutes ago, cheshire~rose said:

I know of a horse boat you have missed off your list that is full length and retains it's original stern post:

Dawn Rose

But then again you have not included a section for Chesterfield Boats so perhaps they do't count as they are "special" :captain:

Seriously though, it is often a source of deep discussion whether Dawn Rose is actually a replica or just the next boat to be built in the line (after an extended gap) 

Stern post or stern post iron ? and does DAWN ROSE have a cabin or is it a day boat ?

edit = When I put the list together at 01:00 this morning it was without prejudice - I just can not remember them all - and I deliberatley missed out the Box Boat at Ellesmere Port :captain:

Edited by pete harrison
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5 minutes ago, pete harrison said:

I would be extremely surprised if the stem post was original, although the stem iron clearly is - along with its horrible little 'T' stud :captain:

Stern post or stern post iron ?

edit = When I put the list together at 01:00 this morning it was without prejudice - I just can not remember them all :captain:

Forgive my ignorance of the anatomy of wooden boats but what is the stern post iron? I know the knees were donated from wooden butty that met it's end a number of years ago but apart from the knees I am not aware of any other significant structural bits of iron work that hold the boat together. 

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10 minutes ago, cheshire~rose said:

Forgive my ignorance of the anatomy of wooden boats but what is the stern post iron? 

The stern post is the large piece of wood that forms the rearmost upright structural part of the hull. The side planks are attached to this and it runs down to the keelson *. The stern post iron is the metalwork that protects the stern post (a bit like a vertical rubbing guard), and it is usually shaped to form the mounting points for the rudder and 'T' stud :captain:

edit = * the keelson or kelson is the backbone of the boat and runs from the stem post to the stern post and is attached to the boats bottoms.

Edited by pete harrison
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These? Although I don't know the history of them, but both are hydraulically driven.

I know Birdswood is also used as a horse boat for some passenger trips.

There is also the wreck by the winding hole at Wolfhampcote. Which butty is that?

33Visit_DerwentValley_HalfADay-1024x768[1].jpg

IMG_07981.JPG

ETA just noticed Birdswood is in your list.

Edited by Ray T
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8 minutes ago, Captain Pegg said:

That's a much larger number of boats than I would have anticipated.

Perhaps then I shouldn't worry about my plans to buy a butty and chop it down to 35' so I can have a motor and butty combination for working together through narrow locks. :ninja:

JP

Simply compare competitive costs of owning 1 times 70 foot boat versus 1 times 35 foot boat and 1 times 35 foot butty, and (unless you want to do canals with locks under 70 feet), it becomes a bit of a financial no-brainer not to keep it as one boat.

Also you'll have nothing like the same space in 2 times 35 feet as in one times 70 feet, as so much will be "wasted" by having an extra pair of "pointy ends".

(I must admit, however, I have considered whether we could tow a 30 foot "work flat" style boat behind "Sickle" - might have room for us and both dogs then!)

I think Pete's list is interesting, but IMO it contains lots of boats that will never ever be usable buttiys again, (or not without some very serious work).

If it still exists in any form here is what one of the looked like nearly 3 years ago, (and it got worse after I took that picture!).....  I guess bits of it may now be in Bates' yard, but I don't know?

IMG_1662.JPG

50 minutes ago, pete harrison said:

KENNETH is a fairly recent build by Dave Thomas at Braunston :captain:

edit = built around 2007

And can something that is built with a butty style back end, but which was motorised from the outset ever truly be called a butty, (or at least unless you de-motorise it)?

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1 hour ago, pete harrison said:

KENNETH is a fairly recent build by Dave Thomas at Braunston :captain:

edit = built around 2007

:offtopic:Another even more recent build, (by Roger Fuller this time).

A shame in my view it went for the very wide "top plank" look to provide more space for living, but that apart the rest of the boat was far more convincing than may.....

DSCF6416.JPG

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3 hours ago, cheshire~rose said:

Forgive my ignorance of the anatomy of wooden boats but what is the stern post iron? I know the knees were donated from wooden butty that met it's end a number of years ago but apart from the knees I am not aware of any other significant structural bits of iron work that hold the boat together. 

I would have thought the knees would have had a fair bit of manipulation to get them to the right shape for a cuckoo? I certainly remember them being somewhat shapely, as pieces of metal!!

Ash and Cedar?

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22 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:

I think Pete's list is interesting, but IMO it contains lots of boats that will never ever be usable buttiys again, (or not without some very serious work).


And can something that is built with a butty style back end, but which was motorised from the outset ever truly be called a butty, (or at least unless you de-motorise it)?

To be honest TAPLOW was one of those that I was uncertain as to whether it still exists, along with a couple of the other wooden boats on my list. This list was just for a bit of fun (for me anyway) and there is no doubt some have a dubious existence being more reproductions than original and others would cost eye watering amounts to remove the propulsion modifications. What disappoints me is the number of these boats that have accommodation in the hold, many of which are of such quality that they are unlikely to be de-converted in the future. I am toying with the thought of acquiring an unconverted butty and there is already not that much choice, especially as my gammy knee would be more suited to a small boat. 

I would describe KENNETH and those like it as built to 'horse boat style', although I would prefer not to describe them at all :captain:  

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27 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:

:offtopic:Another even more recent build, (by Roger Fuller this time).

A shame in my view it went for the very wide "top plank" look to provide more space for living, but that apart the rest of the boat was far more convincing than may.....

DSCF6416.JPG

Those numbers on the cabin are miss-leading :captain:

27 minutes ago, stagedamager said:

Ash and Cedar?

Yep, both still full length butty's. I even have a photograph upstairs of me steering ASH in the old Birmingham and Midland days :captain:

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