Diesel Stoves

[koukouvagia]

12 minutes ago, WotEver said:

Can you sit an Ecofan on top of one of them?

If you can does it work go round and round?

I use my Ecofan to tell me when I'm running out of fuel - it begins to slow down.  

[LEO]

58 minutes ago, WotEver said:

Can you sit an Ecofan on top of one of them?

If you can does it work go round and round?

Yep, and they work well, sending heated air through the bathroom, engine room to the back cabin......

Edited December 8, 2017 by LEO

[rusty69]

1 hour ago, WotEver said:

Can you sit an Ecofan on top of one of them?

If you can does it work go round and round?

Someone should start an ecofan thread, to discuss the merits of such a beast

[cuthound]

I have a Kabola Old Dutch 4, which came with the boat. It is fed from a dedicated 40 litre tank in the port bow locker. This in turn is connected to the main stern tank via an electric transfer pump. There is also an accurate dedicated fuel gauge for the stove tank by the switch for the transfer pump, which makes single handed transferring of fuel a doddle providing you don't fill the tank beyond the full marks of the gauge.

Once I got the thing working and correctly set up  (it had only been used once in 7 years before I got the boat and the diesel in the regulater had evaporated and gummed up the needle valve),  it has been a pleasure to use. Clean, economical  (around 1 litre of fuel used per 5 hours running at the lowest setting - boat gets too hot on any other setting ), controllable and goes 3 weeks between cleaning when it OS on 24/7.

Initially I thought I might change it for a conventional multi-fuel stove, but having lived with it now for 3 and a bit winters, I much prefer it to the multi-fuel stoves on my previous 2 boats.

[Dav and Pen]

We have an oil fired stove, Belgian style. Unlike the tanks in a narrow boat the barges are full height under the deck about 5ft tall so it’s feed by gravity. At first we found it difficult to light but a Belgian friend said to just drop a piece of flaming cotton wool into the pool of gas oil. It’s totally adjustable with the Toby valve and heats the whole barge with no mess.

[Ex Brummie]

After originally fitting a Squirrel solid fuel, I changed it in 1996 for a bubble. With a10mm feed from the main tank, through a fire valve for safety, it is clean, relatively efficient, heats a 5kw back boiler to heat the front bedroom on assisted gravity, and requires a clean out once a month or so. When a prolonged cold snap is forecast, you can leave it on 24/7, and whilst on the boat, it is as warm in the morning as it was when you went to bed. You don't have to hope you are up in time to riddle it out, you don't have to store coal or wood, and there is no ash or dust every time you open the door; you don't have to open the door. Because you don't keep opening the door, seals last longer.There is some thought needed to flueing, but on balance, it has to be the best thing I ever put on the boat.

With regard to the Eco fan, they do work but perhaps not as fast as on a super heated solid fuel stove, but that slows down as the fuel diminishes, but they maintain a steady speed.

[rusty69]

Which is cheaper to run, diesel or solid fuel?

[cuthound]

19 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

Which is cheaper to run, diesel or solid fuel?

At present not a lot of difference.

We used 3 bags of coal at say £12 per bag on our previous boats.

Currently use about 30 litres of diesel per week at say £0.80 per litre.

Obviously if either coal or diesel increases relative to the other, then running costs will change. 

[rusty69]

2 minutes ago, cuthound said:

At present not a lot of difference.

We used 3 bags of coal at say £12 per bag on our previous boats.

Currently use about 30 litres of diesel per week at say £0.80 per litre.

Obviously if either coal or diesel increases relative to the other, then running costs will change. 

Assume that's 3 x £12/week = £36/week (25kg bags?)

v

30l X £0.8 = £24/week

 

So diesel is currently approx 25% cheaper?

[LadyG]

So, tap in to the main tank, use a non return valve [ a fire valve?], and presumably a  valve in the cabin at the regulator

What type of pipe? any BSS guidelines?

gravity feed to the diesel controller from the header.

 

[cuthound]

1 minute ago, LadyG said:

So, tap in to the main tank, use a non return valve [ a fire valve?], and presumably a  valve in the cabin at the regulator

What type of pipe? any BSS guidelines?

gravity feed to the diesel controller from the header.

 

In my previous profession, a fire valve was a weight operated fuel shut off valve, held open by a fusible link. In the event of a fire the link melted and the valve closed, preventing further fuel from entering the device.

Not sure if this would be practicable to feed a stove in a narrowboat, due to space considerations.

[MtB]

On 08/12/2017 at 19:54, Dav and Pen said:

We have an oil fired stove, Belgian style. Unlike the tanks in a narrow boat the barges are full height under the deck about 5ft tall so it’s feed by gravity. At first we found it difficult to light but a Belgian friend said to just drop a piece of flaming cotton wool into the pool of gas oil. It’s totally adjustable with the Toby valve and heats the whole barge with no mess.

 

That's one MONSTER of an Ecofan you have on the table there....

[LadyG]

9 hours ago, koukouvagia said:

To be fair, Mike is probably correct in identifying that the installation can be a bit challenging.  It's the day to day use that's faff free, not the installation.

If you have a large day tank (I think anything over about 25l) you need to treat it like any other fuel tank and have overflow arrangement and a suitable breather in order to satisfy the BSS.

On my set up the overflow goes back into the main tank and the breather, terminated by a flame arrester, goes up to the top plank.

In order to prevent the semi-rotary pump from draining fuel, thus making it a pig to prime, there is a cut off valve on the main tank.

 

What is the function of the curly bit of wire please?

and do all diesel tanks have/should have  breather valves with flame failure devices?

[rusty69]

20 minutes ago, LadyG said:

What is the function of the curly bit of wire please?

Tis but a pube lady G, it has no porpoise 

[MtB]

On 08/12/2017 at 21:26, LadyG said:

and do all diesel tanks have/should have  breather valves with flame failure devices?

 

This is a tricky one. My intermittent GF has a day tank on the outside, so a breather with flame arrester seems breathtakingly pointless. 

[rusty69]

1 minute ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

This is a tricky one. My intermittent GF has a day tank on the outside, so a breather with flame arrester seems breathtakingly pointless. 

Your Girl Friend has a fuel tank? And shes intermittent? 

[MtB]

On 08/12/2017 at 21:52, rusty69 said:

Your Girl Friend has a fuel tank? And shes intermittent? 

Yes.

[rusty69]

1 minute ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

Yes.

That is tricky 

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

Yes.

Modern science eh? Whatever next ...... 

[MtB]

On 08/12/2017 at 21:59, Meanderingviking said:

Modern science eh? Whatever next ...... 

 

Her day tank is mounted on her forward bulkhead. And she is intermittent in that she vanishes for months at a time then gets withdrawal symptoms...

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Her day tank is mounted on her forward bulkhead. And she is intermittent in that she vanishes for months at a time then gets withdrawal symptoms...

Ah I see, perhaps move the tank and consider continual liquid top ups to avoid disappearance problems........

[koukouvagia]

40 minutes ago, LadyG said:

and do all diesel tanks have/should have  breather valves with flame failure devices?

BSS says:  Notes – The hole in the top in the filler cap as provided by the original engine or fuel tank manufacturer, on tanks no more than 27 litres (6 gal) capacity is compliant.

So presumably you need  a vent pipe and flame arrester only for tanks larger than 27l.

[Ex Brummie]

1 hour ago, LadyG said:

So, tap in to the main tank, use a non return valve [ a fire valve?], and presumably a  valve in the cabin at the regulator

What type of pipe? any BSS guidelines?

gravity feed to the diesel controller from the header.

 

There is no point for a non return valve on a gravity feed. The recommended fire valve is a Teddington type capillary fire valve mounted before the point of entry into the cabin with the sensor on the end of the capillary adjacent to the fire. The fire is fed with a copper pipe, and installation is to the Manufacturers Instructions, which is how the BSS uses a catch-all.

[LadyG]

24 minutes ago, koukouvagia said:

BSS says:  Notes – The hole in the top in the filler cap as provided by the original engine or fuel tank manufacturer, on tanks no more than 27 litres (6 gal) capacity is compliant.

So presumably you need  a vent pipe and flame arrester only for tanks larger than 27l.

yes, this looks like the solution where, in portable petrol tanks for  RIBS for example, the filler cap has a tiny vent to prevent collapse of tank.

In the photo, there are two pipes higher than the top surface of the tank, so a breather hole would have to be above their level regardless of the volume of the day tank. The manufacturer of this tank may have had no input in to the use or modification of the tank .

Edited December 8, 2017 by LadyG

[LadyG]

10 hours ago, LadyG said:

yes, this looks like the solution where, in portable petrol tanks for  RIBS for example, the filler cap has a tiny vent to prevent collapse of tank.

In the photo, there are two pipes higher than the top surface of the tank, so a breather hole would have to be above their level regardless of the volume of the day tank. The manufacturer of this tank may have had no input in to the use or modification of the tank .

sry, that looks as though I am familiar with installations, I was just summing up my thoughts, hoping for enlightenment from folks who know what they are talking about, once again, I should be considered to be rambling: questioning/harvesting knowledge ...................... 

Edited December 9, 2017 by LadyG