Diesel Stoves

[Jenwil]

Hi I am just wondering what people's thoughts are on these drip fed stoves for heating?

The lack of mess appeal and the smoke in the air when it's windy or opening the door, no doubt they come with their own pros and cons.

Is it worth buying one second hand ?

[mrsmelly]

11 minutes ago, Jenwil said:

Hi I am just wondering what people's thoughts are on these drip fed stoves for heating?

The lack of mess appeal and the smoke in the air when it's windy or opening the door, no doubt they come with their own pros and cons.

Is it worth buying one second hand ?

Hi

Ask or do a poll or check by whatever means you like as to how many boats have their main heat source from diesel stoves or from such as a solid fuel stove. You will find solid fuel stoves outnumber all other forms by a big margin and there is a simple reason in that solid fuel is by far the best. I have heard diesel praised by a few over the last thirty years but not by the many, they are like composting bogs a big no no for 90 percent of boaters. Off to bed now just going to put a shovel of fuel on the squirrel so it wil still be warm in the morning.

Edited December 7, 2017 by mrsmelly
numpty

[luggsy]

We have a lockgate reflex love it use about 27/28 ltrs a week on 24/7 just give it a good clean out every couple of weeks , safe to leave unattended and easy to control heat settings , also heats the radiators , pretty boom proof not much can go wrong with them 

Edited December 7, 2017 by luggsy
Add picture

[peterboat]

I have a bubble in the bedroom it lights in seconds is very controllable and can be left in 24/7 it is as clean as a whistle. My  Rayburn is a cooking stove is very dusty and costs about £13.00 a week to run if I wasnt cooking on it I suspect I would go for a bubble stove instead for the lack of dirt more than anything, as I have a kero tank at my home moorings and it would cost about the same to run as the Rayburn.

[koukouvagia]

1 hour ago, mrsmelly said:

You will find solid fuel stoves outnumber all other forms by a big margin and there is a simple reason in that solid fuel is by far the best. I have heard diesel praised by a few over the last thirty years but not by the many. . .

These may not be all that popular on our canals, but Refleks have sold over 100,000 of their oil heaters.  They are especially favoured by the Scandinavians in fishing boats where I'm sure a faff-free and efficient form of heating is required.

Edited December 8, 2017 by koukouvagia

[MtB]

3 hours ago, koukouvagia said:

These may not be all that popular on our canals, but Refleks have sold over 100,000 of their oil heaters.  They are especially favoured by the Scandinavians in fishing boats where I'm sure a faff-free and efficient form of heating is required.

 

Faff free? 

Are they not gravity-fed with diesel? This alone counts as faffing about in my book! Filling the feed tank by whatever means and making sure it always has enough diesel in it or the stove goes out and possibly floods must count as faffing about  

[LadyG]

7 hours ago, luggsy said:

We have a lockgate reflex love it use about 27/28 ltrs a week on 24/7 just give it a good clean out every couple of weeks , safe to leave unattended and easy to control heat settings , also heats the radiators , pretty boom proof not much can go wrong with them 

which model is that, is there technical detail, the Refleks site I am looking at https://refleks-olieovne.dk/en/ deals with cubic metres, and is not very clear in some respects, the 60M [ideal for trawlers], and the 61MS [will heat larger spaces using radiators] seem to be about right for a 50 cubic m narrowboat. Also I want a window, and a stove top.

I assume Lockgate [UK] make Refleks under licence?

What happens if there is a UK wide diesel shortage [war in middle east], or the price increases from 70p/l to 150p/l, you know how HM Govt hate diesel, or is it only diesel lorries in london?

Edited December 8, 2017 by LadyG

[Robbo]

12 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Faff free? 

Are they not gravity-fed with diesel? This alone counts as faffing about in my book! Filling the feed tank by whatever means and making sure it always has enough diesel in it or the stove goes out and possibly floods must count as faffing about  

A solid fuel stove is more faff, first you have to find a place to store the coal/wood, physically  move the coal to the stove every few hours and then move the ashes from the stove afterwards.

Diesel you use the tank you already have to store, move to gravity day tank by a switch for the pump and then let gravity feed the stove.  Much less faff!

Edited December 8, 2017 by Robbo

[mross]

Solid fuel stoves are the traditional choice and that was probably due to cost and the wide availability of fuel.  Diesel stoves cost more.  That is why they are less common.

[LEO]

Oil fired Kabola OD4 for me, smaller version of the Reflecks. Burns 24/7 for weeks on end. Back boiler for HW.

Have a solid fuel range in bc. Ash, dust, coal buckets..........no comparison with the oil fire.

L.

Edited December 8, 2017 by LEO

[ditchcrawler]

1 hour ago, mross said:

Solid fuel stoves are the traditional choice and that was probably due to cost and the wide availability of fuel.  Diesel stoves cost more.  That is why they are less common.

Towing with horses is traditional and at one time that was why every one did it until that new fangle steam turned up and look how long that lasted.

[luggsy]

2 hours ago, LadyG said:

which model is that, is there technical detail, the Refleks site I am looking at https://refleks-olieovne.dk/en/ deals with cubic metres, and is not very clear in some respects, the 60M [ideal for trawlers], and the 61MS [will heat larger spaces using radiators] seem to be about right for a 50 cubic m narrowboat. Also I want a window, and a stove top.

I assume Lockgate [UK] make Refleks under licence?

What happens if there is a UK wide diesel shortage [war in middle east], or the price increases from 70p/l to 150p/l, you know how HM Govt hate diesel, or is it only diesel lorries in london?

it is the  2000 KVT 4.2 kw

[MtB]

2 hours ago, Robbo said:

Much less faff!

 

I agree its less faff but I was just quibbling in true CWF stylee Jim's blanket assertion that they are faff free !

In addition, I know someone without that electric pump and switch you describe. Their stove will stay alight for 28 hours on a single fill of the day tank from a jerry can. I've seen them fill the day tank from the can and I assure you it is more of a faff than emptying an ash pan!

[Robbo]

10 hours ago, Jenwil said:

Hi I am just wondering what people's thoughts are on these drip fed stoves for heating?

The lack of mess appeal and the smoke in the air when it's windy or opening the door, no doubt they come with their own pros and cons.

Is it worth buying one second hand ?

If you don't like the stainless steel look and went more of a solid fuel stove look there is the Bubble.  Kabola no longer make the OD4 (or 7).  Lockgate Reflek and Dickinson seem to be good names. I went for the Dickinson Antarctic, mainly because I liked the style.  There's a number of Reflek stoves it's the 2000 range thats recommended for narrowboats, unless your on a 30ft one!

Installing the stove has different woes from fitting a soild fuel one.  They can be closer to walls as the actual physical stove doesn't get as hot.   However they do need a fuel line from a tank which is the biggest pain of the installation.  You have two choices, ether from a small "day" tank that's physically higher than the stove (by about two feet) to gravity feed the fuel, this has the benefits of you don't need a pump running when using the stove and is recommended.   The other option is too have a fuel pump from the main diesel tank, this would be easier to install but you need the pump running when using the stove.    Having a pump to fill the day tank is recommended.  I have around a 10litre day tank, so will need filling every other day.   Don't go for a big day tank as anything over 10 litre (confirmation needed) has extra BSS concerns.

 

1 minute ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

I agree its less faff but I was just quibbling in true CWF stylee Jim's blanket assertion that they are faff free !

In addition, I know someone without that electric pump and switch you describe. Their stove will stay alight for 28 hours on a single fill of the day tank from a jerry can. I've seen them fill the day tank from the can and I assure you it is more of a faff than emptying an ash pan!

Seems daft to install a day tank and not install a pump to fill the dam thing from the main tank!

[luggsy]

Mine has its own fuel tank 150ltrs or in old money 30 gallon 

[MtB]

20 minutes ago, Robbo said:

Seems daft to install a day tank and not install a pump to fill the dam thing from the main tank!

 

Doesn't it just! But that's how it is installed.

Probably done that way as the stove was a retro-fit and right right in the front of the boat and the diesel tank is 55 ft away right in the stern. I was idly wondering what tube could be used to install a diesel run to the front of the boat, what pump would be needed and how much it would all cost. I reckon 1/2" copper pipe would be needed for a run of that length but threading it through an already fitted-out boat would be a total ball-ache. And an electrical cable run would be needed too as the pump should probably be at the back in the engine bay, but the switch at the front by the day tank so filling the day tank can sensibly be monitored. 

I can see why they opted for the cheap way of filling from jerry vans. 

Expanding on the thinking, probably the best route would be up at ceiling level, and ideally without joints. Are there any awkward BSS requirements to trip one up in carrying out such an installation? What pump is suitable for pumping diesel? I reckon the whole installation would probably cost about £500 in materials. 

(What was it you were saying about lack of faff with a diesel stove? )

Edited December 8, 2017 by Mike the Boilerman

[mross]

MtB, do you fill your day tank from a jerry can?  If so, these little, battery-operated pumps are a boon.  Mine even has auto shut-off.

http://www.sealey.co.uk/PLPageBuilder.asp?id=20&method=mViewProduct&productid=17595

You can get them cheaper if you shop around.  Under £20 on Amazon.

Edited December 8, 2017 by mross

[Robbo]

26 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

Expanding on the thinking, probably the best route would be up at ceiling level, and ideally without joints. Are there any awkward BSS requirements to trip one up in carrying out such an installation? What pump is suitable for pumping diesel? I reckon the whole installation would probably cost about £500 in materials. 

(What was it you were saying about lack of faff with a diesel stove? )

I'll be using a fuel pump from ASAP, but my day tank is in the same room as my main tank.   No idea where you think cost would be around £500!   Think you'll be looking at around £150.

Installation is a faff on any new equipment, but I rather faff in getting a good installation rather than the daily faff of running it!

37 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

. I reckon 1/2" copper pipe would be needed for a run of that length but threading it through an already fitted-out boat would be a total ball-ache.

8mm would do it, 5/16" in old money. 10mm if gravity fed from a distance.

[koukouvagia]

36 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

(What was it you were saying about lack of faff with a diesel stove? )

On this question of faff.

I agree installation requires a bit of thought, but it’s no more complicated than having a day tank. In fact, on Owl I used a feed from the day tank to the Refleks, while on Hampton I’ve got a purpose built stainless steel day tank fed from the main tank via a semi-rotary pump. Yes, I do have to remember to pump up the fuel (what a chore ) – usually every three or four days.

I don’t know where the idea of using a 1/2” pipe comes from. I have an 8mm one which runs partly under the floor and partly at skirting board level. Very easy to fit. A cosy boat within half an hour and oodles of hot water.

One huge advantage of a Refleks over a tradition coal/wood burner is that the outer casing of the stove never gets really hot. This means that you can position it much closer to walls, furniture etc.

You sometimes read on this forum that people have trouble lighting a Refleks. There are complete threads devoted to faffing around with complicated lighting procedures. Admittedly you have to keep the filter clean and occasionally scrape away the carbon from the bottom on the burner, but that said, it’s a doddle to light – turn on the fuel, wait 30 seconds and chuck in a twist of burning paper.

 

 

[mross]

5 minutes ago, koukouvagia said:

it’s a doddle to light – turn on the fuel, wait 30 seconds and chuck in a twist of burning paper.

Does the stove ever smell?  My missus has a very sensitive hooter.

[koukouvagia]

1 minute ago, mross said:

Does the stove ever smell?  My missus has a very sensitive hooter.

Nope! 

Very occasionally I turn on the fuel then get distracted before lighting the stove.  This is a bore because you can't light a pool of diesel without causing an alarming conflagration.  The only remedy I've found is to soak up the excess fuel with kitchen towel.  This will, alas, be a bit pongy.

 

[koukouvagia]

To be fair, Mike is probably correct in identifying that the installation can be a bit challenging.  It's the day to day use that's faff free, not the installation.

If you have a large day tank (I think anything over about 25l) you need to treat it like any other fuel tank and have overflow arrangement and a suitable breather in order to satisfy the BSS.

On my set up the overflow goes back into the main tank and the breather, terminated by a flame arrester, goes up to the top plank.

In order to prevent the semi-rotary pump from draining fuel, thus making it a pig to prime, there is a cut off valve on the main tank.

 

[rusty69]

11 hours ago, Jenwil said:

Hi I am just wondering what people's thoughts are on these drip fed stoves for heating?

See what you have started. This could go on for years now

[peterboat]

6 hours ago, Robbo said:

A solid fuel tank is more faff, first you have to find a place to store the coal/wood, physically  move the coal to the stove every few hours and then move the ashes from the stove afterwards.

Diesel you use the tank you already have to store, move to gravity day tank by a switch for the pump and then let gravity feed the stove.  Much less faff!

I have a 200 litre dedicated tank for the stove very faff free. Ask Mike how often he uses his stove nowdays? Or is it all heated by Whispergen

[WotEver]

2 hours ago, rusty69 said:

See what you have started. This could go on for years now

Can you sit an Ecofan on top of one of them?

If you can does it work go round and round?