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How Many Straws To Break The Camel’s Back ?


Alan de Enfield

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1 hour ago, Naughty Cal said:

£6 a night is hardly worth making a fuss over is it?

(Not saying you were making a fuss Cuthound by the way!)

Indeed  and before BW dug out the offline 'marina, you could get to Llangollen (shallow and one boat width wide with passing places) only to find there were no moorings, so I have always seen it as a positive thing.  

It was £5 at first, so has hardly gone up, and probably helped BW recover the money spent digging out the 'Marina'.

It also provides a handy turning point.

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1 hour ago, rgreg said:

I think this is a little unfair. In my opinion the IWA supports genuine continuous cruising, and they make that clear in their strategy statements. The contention arises with those boaters who take the mickey. Of all the boating organisations I believe the IWA, whilst not perfect by any means, has the greatest influence with CRT and probably the best infrastructure to make a difference.

 

The Inland Waterways Association is a great organisation with a great history but it is not a ''boating organisation'' and it's members need to remember that. The clue, as they say, is in the name.

Keith

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35 minutes ago, Steilsteven said:

The Inland Waterways Association is a great organisation with a great history but it is not a ''boating organisation'' and it's members need to remember that. The clue, as they say, is in the name.

Keith

What we all need to remember is that if the waterways are to be adequately funded in the future they need to get more than boaters on board. However, as far as I understand, boating is the IWA's primary concern.

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22 hours ago, sueb said:

Nabo 'whinged' when Llangollen stated that there would be charging but they were a lone voice. Apathy reigns

'Apathy reigns' ..... Is this the same Athy who regularly contributes here - initials A P ?

 

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My own view is that the system is on its last legs and slowly creaking its way to being unfixable.  A tunnel collapse, a few more lock flights or embankments falling to bits and the money simply won't be there for repairs.  It'll be left to the fishermen, the cyclists and the supermarket trolleys.  Revel in it while it's there, I reckon, be thankful it's lasted this long and enjoy it while we can.  It wasn't built for us - we're the lucky ones playing games on the backs of workers and navvies long gone.

I hope that is not the case as all those efforts by campaigners such as Tom Rolt and Charles Hadfield will have been lost. All those rallies and all the free time given by volunteers to bring back the system from the brink of closure to the present extensive mileage enjoyed by boaters, walkers and yes the fishermen. Fishermen need the boats to keep their their fishing areas clear and stir up the silt to improve fishing conditions, they in turn assist with the bank maintenance and also keep a watchful eye on those that pass by.

As to the cyclists there are two types, those who travel along the towpath for leisure and within this group are boaters themselves with cycles. Then there are the others who use the towpath to get to work. Amongst their number are those that race along, oblivious to the needs of others or any damage they may do the path. It is this second group of people CRT should charge and penalise, if warranted. Putting back the barriers will just be a start. I see in Alan's list there is no mention of charges for cyclists!

 
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3 minutes ago, billS said:

After checking his birthday, and allowing for a bit of historical inaccuracy, I'm thinking Jesus.

It would also explain the sandals...

 

I was in fact, according to Mum, born three days early!

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Someone on the 'other side' having similar concerns.

 

The magic has gone!

Published: Friday, 08 December 2017

AFTER boating for three months every year for 13 years and living aboard for the last three years we have sold our boat because the magic and serenity of the canals has disappeared in recent years, writes John Wallace.

Most of our disenchantment stems from the way the canals are mismanaged and neglected by CaRT. Since CaRT took over we have noticed that every section of society is more important than the boaters yet we pay the most money to use the canals.

Get more respect

Cyclists, walkers, event organisers, pseudo artists and boat rallies all get more respect and help from CaRT than boaters. Maintenance is being neglected and locks are falling into disrepair whilst Lycra clad louts hurtle past on their lovely tarmac towpaths.

What maintenance is undertaken is often inefficiently carried out not only by contractors with little knowledge of canals but also by disillusioned CaRT staff e.g. a three days stoppage to replace a displaced bolt and a metal strip at Sutton Stop which led to people’s holiday schedules being disrupted and hire fleets left with abandoned boats far from base.

Too many emergency stoppages

 Stoppages are extended or shortened without sufficient notice and there are now too many emergency stoppages which would have been avoided with the diligence of the now defunct lengthmen and full-time lock keepers. Volunteers are all very well and some are very good but they don’t inspect lengths of canal or sometimes don’t even walk up the local lock flight. Dredging is piecemeal and some canals are becoming overgrown on the towpath side preventing mooring and reeds are reducing the channel width in many places.

Money is wasted on crackpot ideas dreamt up in an office away from the realities of the cut. 'Be a tortoise, not a hare', 'Warning ducks at play', 'You are entering a stress free zone' and banners telling us which town we are in are all a waste of money and heap ridicule on CaRT, and don’t mention the stupid carvings on the lock beams at Hillmorton!

Latest idiocy

The latest idiocy dreamt up in an office asks boaters to leave 16ft of space for anglers—the group who pay peanuts for their fishing rights but can’t resist a good lock landing for their spot!  Further ridicule is invited by telling us that there are several hundred million visitors to the canals every year. No doubt some civil servant will be impressed by CaRT’s inclusive and popular appeal and more grant will be handed out. Priorities are all wrong at CaRT. Dredging a dry and un-navigable canal near Pocklington which will kill dragonfly larvae and when restoring an historic bridge over the dry section their stoppage notice announced 'Towpath closed, Navigation Open'!

The worst of their priorities is with regard to cyclists. I tackled Richard Parry about speeding cyclists and got the usual mantra of “Education is the best way to solve the problem!” He claimed that seat belt wearing and smoking in public buildings were all solved through education—no, advice was given and then enforcement was implemented to punish transgressors. Towpaths need speed inhibitors, fines and insurance and number plates for cyclists to curb their anonymous and dangerous behaviour.

Weak in enforcing overstaying

Now we have unlicensed canoes heading into dark tunnels with no indication as to who will get the blame when one of them is killed. CaRT is also weak in enforcing overstaying on moorings which breeds resentment amongst boaters who follow the rules. The image of the pretty colourful boats gliding past is ruined by the sight of floating sheds and towpath rubbish tips which are never moved. These millions of imaginary visitors will soon become disillusioned when they are confronted with the reality of towpath squatters.

Unfortunately boaters are adding to the deteriorating experience offered by canal cruising. Canal etiquette is dead, speeding boaters are rampant and the language of some boaters would shock a naval matelot! As hire boats get slowly better about speeding, the older generation of boaters in their leather Stetsons, shiny brass encrusted boats and their fake rivets are becoming an arrogant curse on the cut. Knocking off a few revs is not slowing down to tickover. Asking them to slow down invites a string of four letter words and aggression. 'Eastenders afloat' is the modern description of many boaters.

Nothing more than a video or model lock

Some marinas add to the poor experience of boaters. The lazy ones who will only sell diesel in the 60/40 ratio because they are too lazy or too mathematically illiterate to calculate other proportions of use deserve to be boycotted. Others charge up to £2.50 to empty one Elsan cassette! As for the too common hire fleets who send out beginners with nothing more than a video or a model lock for training we have to suffer their slow lock working or worse, having our boats struck by their incompetent steering and cringing at the kids sitting on the bow or running on the roof.

There are still a few decent people on the cut. Some boaters are friendly, help anyone in difficulty and offer advice and knowledge but they are a dying breed. There are marinas like Yelvertoft, and the excellent manager Neil, who offer well thought out facilities, fair prices and good service but too many take boaters for granted. Chandleries like Bim Simcoe’s at Whilton Locks are so helpful and welcoming that they put other badly stocked and overpriced ones to shame.

Fair prices and a great resource

Finally a good word for the men and women who sell diesel, coal, gas and other supplies from their old working boats: they serve in all weathers, have fair prices and are a great resource on the canals.

We should all be grateful too for narrowboatworld who are truly the voice of the waterways. They bring the news faster than anyone, publicise idiocy, hold CaRT to account and support the underdog who unfortunately now seems to be the poor boater! Thank you to the editor and his contributors, you are a ray of light on a dark and depressing cut.

We have sold up, retired from the waterways (taking a month to win back the licence refund from CaRT) and will now spend the money that supported the canal system on other forms of leisure. In a short time there will be many more leavers and the canals will be linear, muddy ditches inhabited by 'floaters not boaters' who swear and cuss and avoid paying their licence fee! I fear I may be proved too right in the future.

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14 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Someone on the 'other side' having similar concerns.

 

The magic has gone!

Published: Friday, 08 December 2017

AFTER boating for three months every year for 13 years and living aboard for the last three years we have sold our boat because the magic and serenity of the canals has disappeared in recent years, writes John Wallace.

Most of our disenchantment stems from the way the canals are mismanaged and neglected by CaRT. Since CaRT took over we have noticed that every section of society is more important than the boaters yet we pay the most money to use the canals.

Get more respect

Cyclists, walkers, event organisers, pseudo artists and boat rallies all get more respect and help from CaRT than boaters. Maintenance is being neglected and locks are falling into disrepair whilst Lycra clad louts hurtle past on their lovely tarmac towpaths.

What maintenance is undertaken is often inefficiently carried out not only by contractors with little knowledge of canals but also by disillusioned CaRT staff e.g. a three days stoppage to replace a displaced bolt and a metal strip at Sutton Stop which led to people’s holiday schedules being disrupted and hire fleets left with abandoned boats far from base.

Too many emergency stoppages

 Stoppages are extended or shortened without sufficient notice and there are now too many emergency stoppages which would have been avoided with the diligence of the now defunct lengthmen and full-time lock keepers. Volunteers are all very well and some are very good but they don’t inspect lengths of canal or sometimes don’t even walk up the local lock flight. Dredging is piecemeal and some canals are becoming overgrown on the towpath side preventing mooring and reeds are reducing the channel width in many places.

Money is wasted on crackpot ideas dreamt up in an office away from the realities of the cut. 'Be a tortoise, not a hare', 'Warning ducks at play', 'You are entering a stress free zone' and banners telling us which town we are in are all a waste of money and heap ridicule on CaRT, and don’t mention the stupid carvings on the lock beams at Hillmorton!

Latest idiocy

The latest idiocy dreamt up in an office asks boaters to leave 16ft of space for anglers—the group who pay peanuts for their fishing rights but can’t resist a good lock landing for their spot!  Further ridicule is invited by telling us that there are several hundred million visitors to the canals every year. No doubt some civil servant will be impressed by CaRT’s inclusive and popular appeal and more grant will be handed out. Priorities are all wrong at CaRT. Dredging a dry and un-navigable canal near Pocklington which will kill dragonfly larvae and when restoring an historic bridge over the dry section their stoppage notice announced 'Towpath closed, Navigation Open'!

The worst of their priorities is with regard to cyclists. I tackled Richard Parry about speeding cyclists and got the usual mantra of “Education is the best way to solve the problem!” He claimed that seat belt wearing and smoking in public buildings were all solved through education—no, advice was given and then enforcement was implemented to punish transgressors. Towpaths need speed inhibitors, fines and insurance and number plates for cyclists to curb their anonymous and dangerous behaviour.

Weak in enforcing overstaying

Now we have unlicensed canoes heading into dark tunnels with no indication as to who will get the blame when one of them is killed. CaRT is also weak in enforcing overstaying on moorings which breeds resentment amongst boaters who follow the rules. The image of the pretty colourful boats gliding past is ruined by the sight of floating sheds and towpath rubbish tips which are never moved. These millions of imaginary visitors will soon become disillusioned when they are confronted with the reality of towpath squatters.

Unfortunately boaters are adding to the deteriorating experience offered by canal cruising. Canal etiquette is dead, speeding boaters are rampant and the language of some boaters would shock a naval matelot! As hire boats get slowly better about speeding, the older generation of boaters in their leather Stetsons, shiny brass encrusted boats and their fake rivets are becoming an arrogant curse on the cut. Knocking off a few revs is not slowing down to tickover. Asking them to slow down invites a string of four letter words and aggression. 'Eastenders afloat' is the modern description of many boaters.

Nothing more than a video or model lock

Some marinas add to the poor experience of boaters. The lazy ones who will only sell diesel in the 60/40 ratio because they are too lazy or too mathematically illiterate to calculate other proportions of use deserve to be boycotted. Others charge up to £2.50 to empty one Elsan cassette! As for the too common hire fleets who send out beginners with nothing more than a video or a model lock for training we have to suffer their slow lock working or worse, having our boats struck by their incompetent steering and cringing at the kids sitting on the bow or running on the roof.

There are still a few decent people on the cut. Some boaters are friendly, help anyone in difficulty and offer advice and knowledge but they are a dying breed. There are marinas like Yelvertoft, and the excellent manager Neil, who offer well thought out facilities, fair prices and good service but too many take boaters for granted. Chandleries like Bim Simcoe’s at Whilton Locks are so helpful and welcoming that they put other badly stocked and overpriced ones to shame.

Fair prices and a great resource

Finally a good word for the men and women who sell diesel, coal, gas and other supplies from their old working boats: they serve in all weathers, have fair prices and are a great resource on the canals.

We should all be grateful too for narrowboatworld who are truly the voice of the waterways. They bring the news faster than anyone, publicise idiocy, hold CaRT to account and support the underdog who unfortunately now seems to be the poor boater! Thank you to the editor and his contributors, you are a ray of light on a dark and depressing cut.

We have sold up, retired from the waterways (taking a month to win back the licence refund from CaRT) and will now spend the money that supported the canal system on other forms of leisure. In a short time there will be many more leavers and the canals will be linear, muddy ditches inhabited by 'floaters not boaters' who swear and cuss and avoid paying their licence fee! I fear I may be proved too right in the future.

IMHO The penultimate paragraph kind of destroys any credibility that this article may have had.

Tim

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59 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Someone on the 'other side' having similar concerns.

 

The magic has gone!

<snip>

The magic is there if one is open to it - and might even get a bit better if the grumpy ones depart the waters...

I've gone from one end of the system to the other over the course of two years: in the time the cherished encounters with boaters and businesses and even, dare one say it, CRT staff far far outweigh the negatives. 

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On ‎01‎/‎12‎/‎2017 at 09:35, rowland al said:

C&RT are run more like a buisness than a charity

 

That would be because they ARE a business!

There is a whole load of utter rubbish talked about charities and businesses as if the two are mutually incompatible, and even more futile attempts to twist the language to explain it all away.

The whole "They aren't a charity, they are a 'business with charitable objects' or 'Charitable Organisation'" is bunkum. They are a charity.

Charities can be organised in a variety of ways (Rules, Deed of Trust, CIO, Limited Company), all are charities.

They are Charities because they have a purpose that is charitable, and of public benefit.

Charitable purposes go beyond "relief" which some people see as what a charity must be, and an organisation doesn't need to be providing relief to anybody to be a charity.

Charities have a duty to safeguard their funds and use them for their charitable purposes. If those charitable purposes are not about providing relief then being lax about pursuing payments and enforcing rules is using funds for other than charitable purposes.

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On 12/1/2017 at 10:38, mrsmelly said:

Yes and whats the big deal with CART knowing where I have hidden 68 feet of boat? Why do people care that CART want to know where their boat is? I don't care a hoot simply comply with the few very easy rules and I get nowt but assistance from CART.

On balance I have no complaints about CRT in particular. My gripe is a general aversion to 'box-ticking-buck-passing-jobsworths' that can be found in any large establishment - private or public - and the propensity to add more boxes to tick, needing more box-tickers, and more control, and consequently more money. 

The target for more income is the personal investment base and users with the most to lose - where in the case of CRT are those with boats and businesses. If they don't like prices and rules; anglers, bikers and walkers can pack their bags and take their rods, bikes and boots somewhere else (and their votes) - at next to no cost to themselves.

 

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8 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Someone on the 'other side' having similar concerns.

 

The magic has gone!

Published: Friday, 08 December 2017

AFTER boating for three months every year for 13 years and living aboard for the last three years we have sold our boat because the magic and serenity of the canals has disappeared in recent years, writes John Wallace.

Most of our disenchantment stems from the way the canals are mismanaged and neglected by CaRT. Since CaRT took over we have noticed that every section of society is more important than the boaters yet we pay the most money to use the canals.

Get more respect

Cyclists, walkers, event organisers, pseudo artists and boat rallies all get more respect and help from CaRT than boaters. Maintenance is being neglected and locks are falling into disrepair whilst Lycra clad louts hurtle past on their lovely tarmac towpaths.

What maintenance is undertaken is often inefficiently carried out not only by contractors with little knowledge of canals but also by disillusioned CaRT staff e.g. a three days stoppage to replace a displaced bolt and a metal strip at Sutton Stop which led to people’s holiday schedules being disrupted and hire fleets left with abandoned boats far from base.

Too many emergency stoppages

 Stoppages are extended or shortened without sufficient notice and there are now too many emergency stoppages which would have been avoided with the diligence of the now defunct lengthmen and full-time lock keepers. Volunteers are all very well and some are very good but they don’t inspect lengths of canal or sometimes don’t even walk up the local lock flight. Dredging is piecemeal and some canals are becoming overgrown on the towpath side preventing mooring and reeds are reducing the channel width in many places.

Money is wasted on crackpot ideas dreamt up in an office away from the realities of the cut. 'Be a tortoise, not a hare', 'Warning ducks at play', 'You are entering a stress free zone' and banners telling us which town we are in are all a waste of money and heap ridicule on CaRT, and don’t mention the stupid carvings on the lock beams at Hillmorton!

Latest idiocy

The latest idiocy dreamt up in an office asks boaters to leave 16ft of space for anglers—the group who pay peanuts for their fishing rights but can’t resist a good lock landing for their spot!  Further ridicule is invited by telling us that there are several hundred million visitors to the canals every year. No doubt some civil servant will be impressed by CaRT’s inclusive and popular appeal and more grant will be handed out. Priorities are all wrong at CaRT. Dredging a dry and un-navigable canal near Pocklington which will kill dragonfly larvae and when restoring an historic bridge over the dry section their stoppage notice announced 'Towpath closed, Navigation Open'!

The worst of their priorities is with regard to cyclists. I tackled Richard Parry about speeding cyclists and got the usual mantra of “Education is the best way to solve the problem!” He claimed that seat belt wearing and smoking in public buildings were all solved through education—no, advice was given and then enforcement was implemented to punish transgressors. Towpaths need speed inhibitors, fines and insurance and number plates for cyclists to curb their anonymous and dangerous behaviour.

Weak in enforcing overstaying

Now we have unlicensed canoes heading into dark tunnels with no indication as to who will get the blame when one of them is killed. CaRT is also weak in enforcing overstaying on moorings which breeds resentment amongst boaters who follow the rules. The image of the pretty colourful boats gliding past is ruined by the sight of floating sheds and towpath rubbish tips which are never moved. These millions of imaginary visitors will soon become disillusioned when they are confronted with the reality of towpath squatters.

Unfortunately boaters are adding to the deteriorating experience offered by canal cruising. Canal etiquette is dead, speeding boaters are rampant and the language of some boaters would shock a naval matelot! As hire boats get slowly better about speeding, the older generation of boaters in their leather Stetsons, shiny brass encrusted boats and their fake rivets are becoming an arrogant curse on the cut. Knocking off a few revs is not slowing down to tickover. Asking them to slow down invites a string of four letter words and aggression. 'Eastenders afloat' is the modern description of many boaters.

Nothing more than a video or model lock

Some marinas add to the poor experience of boaters. The lazy ones who will only sell diesel in the 60/40 ratio because they are too lazy or too mathematically illiterate to calculate other proportions of use deserve to be boycotted. Others charge up to £2.50 to empty one Elsan cassette! As for the too common hire fleets who send out beginners with nothing more than a video or a model lock for training we have to suffer their slow lock working or worse, having our boats struck by their incompetent steering and cringing at the kids sitting on the bow or running on the roof.

There are still a few decent people on the cut. Some boaters are friendly, help anyone in difficulty and offer advice and knowledge but they are a dying breed. There are marinas like Yelvertoft, and the excellent manager Neil, who offer well thought out facilities, fair prices and good service but too many take boaters for granted. Chandleries like Bim Simcoe’s at Whilton Locks are so helpful and welcoming that they put other badly stocked and overpriced ones to shame.

Fair prices and a great resource

Finally a good word for the men and women who sell diesel, coal, gas and other supplies from their old working boats: they serve in all weathers, have fair prices and are a great resource on the canals.

We should all be grateful too for narrowboatworld who are truly the voice of the waterways. They bring the news faster than anyone, publicise idiocy, hold CaRT to account and support the underdog who unfortunately now seems to be the poor boater! Thank you to the editor and his contributors, you are a ray of light on a dark and depressing cut.

We have sold up, retired from the waterways (taking a month to win back the licence refund from CaRT) and will now spend the money that supported the canal system on other forms of leisure. In a short time there will be many more leavers and the canals will be linear, muddy ditches inhabited by 'floaters not boaters' who swear and cuss and avoid paying their licence fee! I fear I may be proved too right in the future.

Obviously this newbie isn't suited to the life, many people aren't. I still luv it and get on with it. Perhaps a caravan will suit him?

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12 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

Obviously this newbie isn't suited to the life, many people aren't. I still luv it and get on with it. Perhaps a caravan will suit him?

He writes about his 16 years experience with the last 3 years living aboard. 

How long does  someone need to be boating to lose the 'Newbie' tag ?

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26 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

Obviously this newbie isn't suited to the life, many people aren't. I still luv it and get on with it. Perhaps a caravan will suit him?

My thoughts exactly. 

The canals are in far better condition now than when I started, in 1973, but not in such good condition as they were in the late 80's to mid 90's.

Unfortunately CRT are underfunded, so need to attract more people (cyclists, walkers anglers etc) who hopefully will become enthralled by the canals, become friends, and even hire or buy boats in the future. 

Edited by cuthound
Grandma
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11 minutes ago, MartynG said:

He writes about his 16 years experience with the last 3 years living aboard. 

How long does  someone need to be boating to lose the 'Newbie' tag ?

Longer than 3 flippin years with just a few weeks each year before. The system is fine if you want it to be. We can all moan just read the Brexit thread :lol:. As a liveaboard of only three years he is nearly brand new. We havnt had a winter for the past seven so if we get one anytime soon it will be the first many have endured but the whole post was negative and in reality nothing in life is all negative. Anyway someone else is probably enjoying boating on the boat he sold so all is not lost.

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5 hours ago, mayalld said:

That would be because they ARE a business!

There is a whole load of utter rubbish talked about charities and businesses as if the two are mutually incompatible, and even more futile attempts to twist the language to explain it all away.

The whole "They aren't a charity, they are a 'business with charitable objects' or 'Charitable Organisation'" is bunkum. They are a charity.

Charities can be organised in a variety of ways (Rules, Deed of Trust, CIO, Limited Company), all are charities.

They are Charities because they have a purpose that is charitable, and of public benefit.

Charitable purposes go beyond "relief" which some people see as what a charity must be, and an organisation doesn't need to be providing relief to anybody to be a charity.

Charities have a duty to safeguard their funds and use them for their charitable purposes. If those charitable purposes are not about providing relief then being lax about pursuing payments and enforcing rules is using funds for other than charitable purposes.

I said they were run MORE like a buisness. I didn't say they didn't have a charitable element. 

If you look at most definitions of the word 'charity' it's based on helping those with a need. Particularly in a voluntary way.

I would suggest that C&RT only meet this definition in a small way. 

The railways are of public benefit but are not a charity. 

I suspect the only reason C&RT have a charity status is to avoid jumping through certain hoops. 

 

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On 08/12/2017 at 11:06, Alan de Enfield said:

AFTER boating for three months every year for 13 years and living aboard for the last three years we have sold our boat

 

Excellent news! That last thing we need is yet another moaning boater for whom nothing is ever good enough.

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3 hours ago, rowland al said:

 

If you look at most definitions of the word 'charity' it's based on helping those with a need. Particularly in a voluntary way.

I would suggest that C&RT only meet this definition in a small way. 

But have you looked at the legal description of CRT's charitable objectives?  I don't think 'helping those with a need' is there.

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4 hours ago, mrsmelly said:

Obviously this newbie isn't suited to the life, many people aren't. I still luv it and get on with it. Perhaps a caravan will suit him?

I doubt it. I'm sure he would be equally as adept to find something to complain about. Born wingers are everywhere

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