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Fibreglass boat refit


manxmike

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On 08/12/2017 at 18:54, Sunflower16 said:

.too cold right now for anything other than a quick visit!

Couldn't agree more - especially with the current white cold stuff that keeps falling from the sky!

Wayne - sounds like a plan, not likely to be doing much before March/April though. Off to Egypt in the new year for an extended break and waiting for halfway decent weather conditions in the UK. I've been looking at various kitchen and bathroom fittings on ebay but not buying until I've finished stripping and have a better idea of the dimensions available for units.

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In order to replace the floor I am hoping to use 15mm or 19mm ply. My questions are:

Would marine ply be better than standard?

B&Q do a useful cut to size service but don't seem to stock anything thicker than 12mm standard, is there a supplier near Preston who might offer a similar service with better material?

On a slightly different theme, would installing some sort of headlining in the cabin help to reduce condensation?

Should the headlining have an insulating backing? (Minimal winter usage envisaged)

Thanks in advance for suggestions!

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31 minutes ago, manxmike said:

In order to replace the floor I am hoping to use 15mm or 19mm ply. My questions are:

Would marine ply be better than standard?

B&Q do a useful cut to size service but don't seem to stock anything thicker than 12mm standard, is there a supplier near Preston who might offer a similar service with better material?

On a slightly different theme, would installing some sort of headlining in the cabin help to reduce condensation?

Should the headlining have an insulating backing? (Minimal winter usage envisaged)

Thanks in advance for suggestions!

Ours has a foam backed vinyl on the ceiling and some parts of the walls. We don't get any condensation in the cabin but ours is mostly double skinned with an air gap between the two skins of GRP which probably helps a little. Plus we don't have large windows in the cabin just a few port lights and a roof hatch which helps reduce heat loss.

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You really don’t need marine ply for an interior cabin floor as it should not be getting wet to that degree.  Any builders merchants will usually provide the same cut to size service -not sure about Preston but where I live in the Midlands there are timber merchants who will happily cut to size from the stamdard 8’ board.  I used 18mm ply for my Teals new cabin floor. 

Headlining will definitely help condensation -take a look at somebof the acrylic panels used in bathrooms these days they look neat and follow the roof contours easier than a single sheet of thin pky or hardboard.

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ideally you should use marine ply, and not the crap that is labelled marine ply (unless it has a Lloyds approval stamp on every sheet).  Ornery 'marine ply' advertised for about £40 per sheet of 15 or 18mm is rubbish.  If you don't want to pay for marine ply then use 'shuttering ply' that is designed to be wetted and re-used several times before it begins to deteriorate.  

you should line the cabin, including the ceiling (deckhead) with insulating foam, I suggest one or two layers of 1" kingspan that can be formed to the curves of the cabin top.  If you don't do it now you will always regret it and you don't get a second chance.

Edited by Murflynn
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On 12/1/2017 at 13:22, jocave said:

 

No point skimping on materials. You will only regret it at a later date when it comes back to bite you!

As suggested shuttering ply is better then bog standard if you really can't pay for marine ply. But marine ply is better.

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If your budget allows go with marine ply. You could always seal the edge of cheaper board with epoxy or pva to reduce water ingress. 

The foam on foam backed vinyl will crumble eventually, but should give you years of service. 

Edited by rusty69
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Depends entirely on whether your budget is unlimited or not, of course, as to whether you use the most expensive materials or not.   A lot of us can’t, but there are a lotvof boaters on this forum and elsewhere with significant resources and very deep pockets.   

While marine ply is wonderful, it isn't absolutely essential for the cabin floor.  You could even have an expensive hardwood floor put down, for that matter- its about budget and personal choice. 

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1 hour ago, rusty69 said:

If your budget allows go with marine ply. You could always seal the edge of cheaper board with epoxy or pva to reduce water ingress. 

The foam on foam backed vinyl will crumble eventually, but should give you years of service. 

Not sure what brand of foam backed vinyl was used on ours. It was standard fit by Sealine, but it is almost 15 years old with no sign of crumbling yet.

1 hour ago, Sunflower16 said:

Depends entirely on whether your budget is unlimited or not, of course, as to whether you use the most expensive materials or not.   A lot of us can’t, but there are a lotvof boaters on this forum and elsewhere with significant resources and very deep pockets.   

While marine ply is wonderful, it isn't absolutely essential for the cabin floor.  You could even have an expensive hardwood floor put down, for that matter- its about budget and personal choice. 

I agree there are certain places you can save a few pennies on certain materials but certain elements you really do need the right materials for the job.

Ply for the floor is one of them. Despite all your best efforts there will be times when it gets wet.

  • Greenie 1
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2 hours ago, rusty69 said:

If your budget allows go with marine ply. You could always seal the edge of cheaper board with epoxy or pva to reduce water ingress. 

Good advice. The edges are not only where cheap ply is vulnerable but also where cheap so-called marine ply is vulnerable. You only have to do it once so do it right. I’d suggest that PVA isn’t suitable though - go for resin. 

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On 12/10/2017 at 09:47, manxmike said:

Couldn't agree more - especially with the current white cold stuff that keeps falling from the sky!

Wayne - sounds like a plan, not likely to be doing much before March/April though. Off to Egypt in the new year for an extended break and waiting for halfway decent weather conditions in the UK. I've been looking at various kitchen and bathroom fittings on ebay but not buying until I've finished stripping and have a better idea of the dimensions available for units.

Sounds good to me, by that time i will be near done, well bloody hope so lol.

By kitchen fittings do you mean the units/cupboards. I found years ago it is easier to make frames and clad them, its lighter and easier than trying to cut the kitchen units to fit. 

 

 

On insulation, there are lots of ways to go, if i was you i would defo use 25mm Polyurethane insulation board. It will not be to costly if you go to a suppliers, i use Tyne Insulation and get seconds at half price if not less. Even on cool nights on the boat it will make a big difference on helping it keep warm. O mine i used 50mm on hull sides below gunnel and 25mm on the top and sides. I had the 2kw heater half on at the weekend in -2 and it was great. I tried a 2lw heater befor ei lined it out a winter or so ago and it struggled.

Also a saving on heating in LPG costs ;)

Then line out with either carpet straight on the insulation board or line with 4mm ply then line that with the carpet to keep away condensation. 

 

There are other ways like the bubble foil which is no use IMO, Just carpet can be used but no use as insulation but good to beat condensation, foam backed if you get a decent quality. Camper Van lining is a good one to use just to keep damp out. Unless you get an amount of insulation on though you can still get condensation and it can grow mould then.

For the floor i would not go to a DIY store or the likes but a decent wood suppliers/yard. Ove rthe years i have used wood of all type from BnQ and Wicks and it varies from time to time on the quality. Some times cardboard would of been better to use.    

A good wood yard will only by decent timber/wood as the sell mainly to trade who they want to keep as customers. A good hardwood 18mm ply will be fine for around £40 a 8x4 sheet, unless you want real marine ply if you can find it and i have had that go to around £95 a sheet.

 

I have been using George Hill Timber, shame they dont have one near Preston but i am sure there are there suppliers near by.

https://georgehill-timber.co.uk/shop/plywood/marine-grade-plywood/

Buffalo Board or the likes is best if you can find seconds to save cost as these are around £100 a sheet if not more, that will beat Marine ply hands down, i have had it sat outside for 4 years now and no ill affects at all.   

Or if you go just hardwood faced ply then treat the edge with a few coats poly or epoxy resin and even the faces. The underside can be even coated with a Bitumus paint.

 

 

 

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Wonderful advice from everyone, that's why I love this forum so much!:D

I have found a couple of timber merchants in the area near the Marina who supply the building trade and DIY. They cut to size and deliver if required so will be getting my custom (also closer than B&Q).

Murflyn - using two layers of 25mm kingspan on the cabin roof would reduce the already poor headroom significantly. I think I may skimp slightly on that, still line it but maybe not two inches.

Sadly the budget is not a bottomless pit, so I will have to be careful on my choices without being silly and regretting it later.

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Does anyone have dimensions or even better a scale plan of the interior of a Norman 27 cc? While I'm here on the Isle of Man and unable to pop down to the boat it would be great to do some advance planning and actual measurements would be handy.

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3 hours ago, manxmike said:

Does anyone have dimensions or even better a scale plan of the interior of a Norman 27 cc? While I'm here on the Isle of Man and unable to pop down to the boat it would be great to do some advance planning and actual measurements would be handy.

You will be better measuring off your boat.

When we made some templates for the carpets in our boat they were nowhere near fitting a friends S23 which is supposed to be the same boat!

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3 hours ago, manxmike said:

Does anyone have dimensions or even better a scale plan of the interior of a Norman 27 cc? While I'm here on the Isle of Man and unable to pop down to the boat it would be great to do some advance planning and actual measurements would be handy.

How soon do you need the measurements. I could help if you dont have any luck by popping to your boat and sizing it up for you if you like. Understand if you dont like the idea of some weirdo looking over your new pride and joy.  I will make  a day of it by taking T for a meal and mooching around the marina.

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On 11/29/2017 at 21:31, manxmike said:

Well, I've gone and done it - I've bought a fibreglass boat!

It's a 26 foot centre cockpit Viking. I have no idea what year it is as there seems to be a distinct lack of paperwork. It doesn't have a BSC or a license - both of which will be acquired in the very very near future.

The hull and upperworks are sound, the outboard engine is fine, there's no crazing or bubbles but the interior .............

I managed to get the boat for an excellent price, fully aware that the interior needs stripping back to the basic grp. So far I have spent five days removing an incredible amount of cr*p that a previous owner had stuffed into every conceivable space. I then removed the horrible rotting attic style floor boarding to find that it had been laid directly on top of the original flooring which must have been rotting when the "new floor" was laid. Under the original floor was about two inches of very dirty stagnant water.

The battery isolator was there, but not actually connected to the battery! The wiring appears to have been put in by someone who has no idea of electricity - a wonderful mixture of bell wire, speaker wire and mains wire, the runs are looped all over the place. Thank heavens I intend to rewire the entire boat through a central fuse and switch board.

The seating in the saloon had been constructed out of old kitchen units turned on their side and nailed in place, the sink/hob unit had been ripped out, the water heater disconnected and shoved into a locker, the gas locker had been constructed out of ply with the only vent directly into the bilge. In short whoever tried to refit the boat in the past had made a complete pig's ear of the job - to a scary degree. I'm amazed that it ever got a BSC and am surprised that it didn't explode into flames.

I have had a wonderful time so far - a good friend commented that I seemed to like a project, she's quite right! It's almost going to be a let down when I get it finished.

I'll update as the work progresses.

You must have bought the sister of my boat!!

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Hi Wayne,

That's a very kind offer if it doesn't put you out too much. I will have to let the Marina know that you are coming - and when -  so they can let you have the key. They are only open on Tuesday, Friday, Saturday and Sunday and close between 12.30 and 1.30 for lunch. I'm not sure about their hours over Christmas.

Let me know and I will give them a ring to expect you!

Jocave - Are you moored at Moonsbridge? I did meet a couple of lovely people moored there (why are boat owners so nice?) are you one of them?

 

Once again my faith in humanity is restored, especially when it comes to canal users. I continually run across people who are prepared to help others, even people they have never met before and not just at Christmas!

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11 hours ago, peterboat said:

Well, I've gone and done it - I've bought a fibreglass boat!

It's a 26 foot centre cockpit Viking.

In case I didn't mention it earlier it's not a 26 foot Viking, it's a 27 foot Norman. Very similar but the Norman front cockpit is longer and the stern cockpit shorter with two singles rather than a double. Differences to the centre cockpit layout as well!

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21 minutes ago, manxmike said:

In case I didn't mention it earlier it's not a 26 foot Viking, it's a 27 foot Norman. Very similar but the Norman front cockpit is longer and the stern cockpit shorter with two singles rather than a double. Differences to the centre cockpit layout as well!

No I am on about my bathtub [32 x 12] broads cruiser its in the same condition as yours double floors both rotted, lining falling to pieces etc etc etc!!! Its a right mess and I am enjoying turning it back into a boat again

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5 hours ago, peterboat said:

No I am on about my bathtub [32 x 12] broads cruiser its in the same condition as yours double floors both rotted, lining falling to pieces etc etc etc!!! Its a right mess and I am enjoying turning it back into a boat again

Excellent, photos if possible please!

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