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Is it normal to get a test drive?


PeterCr

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Hi all, just wondering.

If you're buying a boat is it normal that you'd get to take it out for a little drive, perhaps to the nearest winding hole at least? 

And if so at what stage in the proceedings would you get to take it out? Before making an offer or after, and if it's after should the offer be subject to an on water test?

 

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Whether normal or not IMHO its simply common sense - it gives you the chance to get a feel for the boat and provides the equivalent of a second viewing - as to timing my view is that it is part of your conditional offer to be done after your offer has been accepted (and possibly deposit paid) but pre survey so if there is an issue you can drop out without further expense or inform the survey process better.

Just noticed where you are - if buying blind your surveyor will do this for you if required - sadly probably at increased expense 

Edited by Halsey
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I don't know whether it's normal, but when we were selling our boat we took prospective buyers for a test run.  After showing them the various points, e.g. how to start a Kelvin, we let them steer along the Tring Summit so that they would get the feel of the boat.  There were three such people and they had all come a long way.

There were other enquirers who were not ready, I felt, to buy but just wanted more information.  I said I had already people lined up to view, but if nothing came of their visits, I'd get back to them.

 

 

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When I purchased through a broker his policy was to accept your offer, and deposit, subject to a subsequent satisfactory test- drive before completion. If anything of concern arose on the test that couldn't be rectified your deposit would be refunded. If making a private purchase I would expect to test without commitment.

 

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8 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

But remember big brokers like Wilton don't want everyone going out for a Sunday afternoon jolly, they already have more than their share of tyre kickers 

Exactly, that's why the broker I mentioned above, quite rightly, has a policy of agreed sale with deposit subject to final completion on satisfactory test.

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14 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

But remember big brokers like Wilton don't want everyone going out for a Sunday afternoon jolly, they already have more than their share of tyre kickers 

As with any kind of trade there are brokers and there are brokers. Some go for a 'mass' market and others are selective and I have no doubt that the fees reflect that difference.

When we sold last year, we opted for a broker who was clearly in the latter category and we knowingly opted for his higher fee rate. However, he knew the market and his list of prospective customers and contacted one who lived some distance away on the basis that, having seen them turn down several boats after inspection, this was more likely to meet their needs. It officially went on the market on a Friday and by Sunday morning we had a phone call with an offer.

It would be silly to over-generalise from a particular but, although it was seven years ago, our experience as a purchaser with a range of brokers showed the variation in approach. Some would simply say: here's a list of boats we have and they are moored over there. Go take a look and if you want to put down a deposit on one then we will take you through it. I suspect its popularity with sellers (judging just by the number they have on offer) that the fees are probably a lot to do with it.

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I am not sure what a ’test drive’ shows you.

If you have experience & knowledge around boats then I don’t think it is necessary, you can 'kick the tyres', run the engine, try it in/out of gear, ’wobble the steering’ and check it doesn’t overheat with it tied up on its mooring.

If you do not have any boating experience what will you look for, and what will you learn, from a 30 minute cruise ?

  • Greenie 1
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When I've bought big ticket items like cars and motorcycles over the phone at distance,  I've offered a deposit which is fully refundable if I'm not entirely satisfied. I've never had anyone disagree with this and it's always been inserted as an essence of the contract. Even though I was at their site when I bought my boat, so there was no 'distance selling' element, I asked the broker for the same deposit clause, and I was able to both carry out my own survey and a test drive under such a deposit.  I'd suggest a test drive is an essential part of the buying process, for me at least.

However, when I've been involved in marine boat sales, brokers standard contracts often say 'subject to survey' but only really allow you to adjust the price to compensate for or correct any issues found. Pulling out completely was really not an easy course of action. What I'm saying is, be careful when placing a deposit as it can mean a binding commitment to buy with a possible price adjustment rather than being a method of holding the boat whilst you carry out due dilligence. Ensure you know before you sign.

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32 minutes ago, Sea Dog said:

When I've bought big ticket items like cars and motorcycles over the phone at distance,  I've offered a deposit which is fully refundable if I'm not entirely satisfied. I've never had anyone disagree with this and it's always been inserted as an essence of the contract. Even though I was at their site when I bought my boat, so there was no 'distance selling' element, I asked the broker for the same deposit clause, and I was able to both carry out my own survey and a test drive under such a deposit.  I'd suggest a test drive is an essential part of the buying process, for me at least.

However, when I've been involved in marine boat sales, brokers standard contracts often say 'subject to survey' but only really allow you to adjust the price to compensate for or correct any issues found. Pulling out completely was really not an easy course of action. What I'm saying is, be careful when placing a deposit as it can mean a binding commitment to buy with a possible price adjustment rather than being a method of holding the boat whilst you carry out due dilligence. Ensure you know before you sign.

There are contracts and contracts, if  you want a no quibble - deposit returned contract,  that is available [ABNB, maybe others], its up to you to weigh up these things before you agree the contract. It limits your purchasing options but reduces the risk. Personally I would be willing to pay the premium for the option, only if it was the right boat.

If the contract looks too much in the seller's favour and I might have to walk away leaving my deposit behind, I would need to have a very special boat, AND a very low price, and I would not hand over a 10% deposit, but enough to cover the costs of the seller while I arrange a survey, and make it clear I will walk away if they don't re negotiate for unexpected problems. They won't like it, but its my money, my options. There are some folks out there who are just plain rougues.

Edited by LadyG
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47 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

I am not sure what a ’test drive’ shows you.

If you have experience & knowledge around boats then I don’t think it is necessary, you can 'kick the tyres', run the engine, try it in/out of gear, ’wobble the steering’ and check it doesn’t overheat with it tied up on its mooring.

If you do not have any boating experience what will you look for, and what will you learn, from a 30 minute cruise ?

You will learn that the boat will get you out on the cut ................... without the engine blowing up or the boat sinking. You don't need to be an expert to realise they should proceed in forward gear without banging/knocking/smoking/burning oil. And reverse gear should be available without the prop falling off. How foolish would it be if you arranged for a hull survey and the boat was unable to get to the crane or whatever under its own engine?

Edited by LadyG
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46 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

I am not sure what a ’test drive’ shows you.

 

Surely, how it steers: does it respond to the tiller readily or do have to suggest where it might like to go, is the steering heavy or light, does the engine have to work hard to propel it at even a moderate speed, will it stop in under five minutes?

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53 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

I am not sure what a ’test drive’ shows you.

You may be selling to an experienced boater who has never steered an ex-working boat before.  It is sensible for such a prospective purchaser to see whether he or she would be happy with a large deep drafted boat before making an offer.

eta I see Athy is saying something similar.

Edited by koukouvagia
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6 hours ago, PeterCr said:

Hi all, just wondering.

If you're buying a boat is it normal that you'd get to take it out for a little drive, perhaps to the nearest winding hole at least? 

And if so at what stage in the proceedings would you get to take it out? Before making an offer or after, and if it's after should the offer be subject to an on water test?

 

I think it must depend on the circumstances of the purchaser, if the vendor is not flexible at that stage assuming you have persuaded him you have the money and the intent to purchase, then you should find another boat/he should find another purchaser. I would expect money to have been discussed, unless the vendor is quite happy to take the boat out for you, in order to make a sale.

Edited by LadyG
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6 hours ago, PeterCr said:

Hi all, just wondering.

If you're buying a boat is it normal that you'd get to take it out for a little drive, perhaps to the nearest winding hole at least? 

And if so at what stage in the proceedings would you get to take it out? Before making an offer or after, and if it's after should the offer be subject to an on water test?

 

If buying a boat here by remote control from Oz, then I guess you can use the services of a surveyor to give you a clean bill of health  - and let them decide whether a test drive is required - and make sure that your contract with them expressly covers this aspect - to protect you from things (that matter) that could go wrong with the boat that would have been revealed by a test drive.

For instance in my case, I bought an ex-hire boat. I did not test drive it. I couldn't - it was on the slipway for a good hull inspection. A rare opportunity when buying a used boat!

However, when I collected it, and drove it for the first time, I found it had a noticeable tilt to one side - but easily fixed by adding ballast weights, so no big deal. It also had a slight crab-like forward motion - only noticeable in tunnels and when manoeuvering  in narrow spaces between boats in busy places. It's probably a characteristic of all boats - so not to worry.

You would not get to test drive a brand new boat. There would be a presumption of 'fit-for-purpose' embodied in the contract.

Good luck!

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Thanks all, I have a certain, limited, amount of experience, having hired a few different boats over the years so have some idea how they should handle, hopefully enough to be able to detect handling problems.

One of the things I have been warned about is reverse. I've been told that some boats are terrible in reverse. Whilst I know that no boat is great in reverse they can be handled, but the person who warned me, who has a lot of experience, said it was very important to see how a boat handled in reverse as some were virtually impossible.

So I was wondering whether brokers routinely allowed you to actually take a boat out. I would expect private owners would, but some brokers might not, so I thought I'd ask. And whilst I'm certainly a remote buyer I don't think I'd be able to bring myself to buy sight unseen even with a good surveying report, so I'd get over there to inspect first hand. So I'll be there to take it out.

 

 

 

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21 hours ago, LadyG said:

There are contracts and contracts, if  you want a no quibble - deposit returned contract,  that is available [ABNB, maybe others], its up to you to weigh up these things before you agree the contract. It limits your purchasing options but reduces the risk. Personally I would be willing to pay the premium for the option, only if it was the right boat.

If the contract looks too much in the seller's favour and I might have to walk away leaving my deposit behind, I would need to have a very special boat, AND a very low price, and I would not hand over a 10% deposit, but enough to cover the costs of the seller while I arrange a survey, and make it clear I will walk away if they don't re negotiate for unexpected problems. They won't like it, but its my money, my options. There are some folks out there who are just plain rougues.

This is perhaps why you are struggling to sell your flat and struggling to find and buy a boat.

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1 hour ago, Naughty Cal said:

This is perhaps why you are struggling to sell your flat and struggling to find and buy a boat.

 

re the flat, as explained before, I have to abide by the laws of Scotland, which are very inflexible. I am using one of the biggest estate agents, they use all the latest gizmos, they tell me the market is quiet.

I can't offer on a boat 'till flat is sold. I check the market for boats twice a day, I have always got one on my short list. No point in wasting my time or theirs till the cash is available, I would just lose any deposit.

If you check out Grumpy Biker's pre purchase posts you will see the trouble he had with GH, I have a list of brokers who are frequently mentioned on here. No point in looking / throwing cash at a boat when one has absolutely no confidence in the vendor. There are over a thousand narrowboats  for sale in the UK, many of them are pure rust buckets, but that is rarely mentioned in the advert. https://www.apolloduck.com/boat.phtml?id=532869

"If the contract looks too much in the seller's favour and I might have to walk away leaving my deposit behind, I would need to have a very special boat, AND a very low price, and I would not hand over a 10% deposit, but enough to cover the costs of the seller while I arrange a survey, and make it clear I will walk away if they don't re negotiate for unexpected problems. They won't like it, but its my money, my options. There are some folks out there who are just plain rougues."

ie

Caveat Emptor

Edited by LadyG
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9 hours ago, PeterCr said:

Thanks all, I have a certain, limited, amount of experience, having hired a few different boats over the years so have some idea how they should handle, hopefully enough to be able to detect handling problems.

One of the things I have been warned about is reverse. I've been told that some boats are terrible in reverse. Whilst I know that no boat is great in reverse they can be handled, but the person who warned me, who has a lot of experience, said it was very important to see how a boat handled in reverse as some were virtually impossible.

So I was wondering whether brokers routinely allowed you to actually take a boat out. I would expect private owners would, but some brokers might not, so I thought I'd ask. And whilst I'm certainly a remote buyer I don't think I'd be able to bring myself to buy sight unseen even with a good surveying report, so I'd get over there to inspect first hand. So I'll be there to take it out.

 

 

 

Not to mention boats which won't engage reverse at all.

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Your very inflexible manner will ultimately mean that you won't sell your flat or buy a boat.

You are viewing things too black and white.

Back in the real world things are graduating shades of grey. There has to be some give and take. Unless you are willing to accept this you will be left very frustrated. 

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25 minutes ago, Naughty Cal said:

Your very inflexible manner will ultimately mean that you won't sell your flat or buy a boat.

You are viewing things too black and white.

Back in the real world things are graduating shades of grey. There has to be some give and take. Unless you are willing to accept this you will be left very frustrated. 

I don't want to go in to further detail, but there is no fixed price on the flat, there has not been a viewer for four weeks, and four weeks before that, its all newly decorated. The survey is very positive, the survey valuation [which is what finance companies use], is independant of my input.  I have used all resources available to me, but there are no buyers. This is not London. I have sold several houses before, and I used estate agents, it is pretty much impossible not to, I know because I tried. I do take advice from local property marketing professionals, but not from folks on a boating forum, lol.

So far it has all been give................. having spent about £10K this year on the flat, and that's before agents, solicitors and surveyors.

Edited by LadyG
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10 hours ago, PeterCr said:

So I was wondering whether brokers routinely allowed you to actually take a boat out. I would expect private owners would, but some brokers might not, so I thought I'd ask. And whilst I'm certainly a remote buyer I don't think I'd be able to bring myself to buy sight unseen even with a good surveying report, so I'd get over there to inspect first hand. So I'll be there to take it out.

I suspect it depends on the broker and location.  ABNB were happy to provide us with an accompanied trip to the next winding point which was nearby.  Whilton declined a request on the basis that it was a four hour round trip to the next winding point, so would be unreasonable. 

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