Mooring on my own land

[Funx]

Goof morning, hope you all well. My fiancée and I live aboard a wide beam. We have recently purchased land in Gloucester on the River Severn not far from the city centre. It  runs along side the river and we would like to moor there. The local council are telling us that we need planning permission for this. Whenever we question the legality of it, they seem to back peddle and change there mind about what and how to we do this. It almost seems like they just want to charge us for something we don’t need  

Can anyone please point in the right direction of what to do next. 

Much appreciated 

[Athy]

And goof morning and welcome to you.

We have some members here who are experts in the legal aspects of boating, so I'm sure that you will receive good advice.

[john6767]

Assuming this is in the Eastern Channel below Upper Parting, is the location suitable for mooring a widebeam given the channel is quite narrow and you get big boats (ships) like Edward Elgar on it.  

Does the Land give you riparian rights on the river?  Is the Eastern Channel man made?

[ditchcrawler]

If you intend to build a platform of some kind or other structure probably, if it was just to moor to stakes unlikely, if you plan to live on the boat almost definitely. Have you observed the water flow there when the river is in flood? 

[alan_fincher]

Shouldn't the thread title actually be "mooring ALONGSIDE my own land", unless you actually own part of the river?

[Alan de Enfield]

1 hour ago, Funx said:

We have recently purchased land in Gloucester on the River Severn not far from the city centre

 

If you purchased the land with the primary intention of having your own mooring, surely that would have been part of the ‘brief’ to your solicitors when doing the due diligence – what did your Solicitors say was the situation ?

Before anyone can advise you do need to answer the questions :

Do you have Riparian ownership of the river bed ?

Do you intent to undertake ‘building work’ (ie build a mooring platform / pontoon) ?

Will it be your primary residence ?

 

I would suggest that your next step is to get back onto your Solicitor to get him to answer the questions.

[john6767]

13 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

If you intend to build a platform of some kind or other structure probably, if it was just to moor to stakes unlikely, if you plan to live on the boat almost definitely. Have you observed the water flow there when the river is in flood? 

And what happens on high tides when the flow is coming up the river!

[ditchcrawler]

I don't think it would be possible to put in a residential mooring without planning consent and also paying council tax regardless as to whether you have riparian rights, CRT blessing and a boat that will stay there regardless of what the water is doing. The strange thing is I had a friend living on a boat in Norfolk and the council took the opposite view, he couldnt live in a caravan on his riverside smallholding but put it on floats and the didnt care.

Edited November 24, 2017 by ditchcrawler

[Alan de Enfield]

7 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

I don't think it would be possible to put in a residential mooring without planning consent and also paying council tax

I think it will also need pre-approval from the Navigation Authority

Whilst not specifically covering the Severn :

No person shall unless authorised by the Board in that behalf or otherwise legally entitled so to do execute any works of construction maintenance or repair so as to obstruct or interfere with the navigation of any canal or otherwise than in accordance with the conditions attached by the Board to such authority if given.

[Murflynn]

if it's tidal then the council may require a marine licence which I can tell you from experience is an absolute nightmare.  They will probably ask for the full environmental study and report as well.  Ludicrous I know, but required by law.

[Guest]

44 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:

Shouldn't the thread title actually be "mooring ALONGSIDE my own land", unless you actually own part of the river?

Possibly but then i guess most non pedantic people would understand the meaning of the question.

[Alan de Enfield]

34 minutes ago, Murflynn said:

if it's tidal then the council may require a marine licence which I can tell you from experience is an absolute nightmare.  They will probably ask for the full environmental study and report as well.  Ludicrous I know, but required by law.

 

I would guess it would depend exactly where the land is (above or below the weirs), and then the Council’s definition of ‘tidal’ as only the Big Spring Tides reach Tewkesbury

 

From the River Severn Guide:

Before the construction of locks and weirs, the effect of the tide reached as far as Worcester.

Today, weirs near Gloucester hold back the daily tides except at high Spring tides *.

The high Spring tides overtop the weirs and make the River Severn tidal as far as Upper Lode Lock, near Tewkesbury.

Around high water, severe turbulence occurs near the approach to Gloucester lock.

Boats should avoid passage at this time.

 

Edited November 24, 2017 by Alan de Enfield

[Sea Dog]

Is this to be a mooring from which you will cruise or will your boat be a permanent residential fixture?  This might make a difference from a planning permission and/or Council Tax perspective, and it may also make a difference in terms of the size and strength of mooring required if the boat is going to be there with residents aboard whatever the state of the river. Only a thought.

[GUMPY]

Wonder if it's this one

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-62694019.html

I wouldn't moor there to much chance of ending up in the middle of your field!

[john6767]

19 minutes ago, Loddon said:

Wonder if it's this one

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-62694019.html

I wouldn't moor there to much chance of ending up in the middle of your field!

Not sure if I am interpreting the location of that land currently or not, is it just to the north of the A40, in which case it is the land on the right here, and I would say most certainly not suitable for mooring on, given the size of boats transiting that narrow channel.

 

[Machpoint005]

6 hours ago, MJG said:

Possibly but then i guess most non pedantic people would understand the meaning of the question.

Maybe, but the OP is asking legal questions so the correct terminology is vitally important. 

[MtB]

10 hours ago, Funx said:

Goof morning, hope you all well. My fiancée and I live aboard a wide beam. We have recently purchased land in Gloucester on the River Severn not far from the city centre. It  runs along side the river and we would like to moor there. The local council are telling us that we need planning permission for this. Whenever we question the legality of it, they seem to back peddle and change there mind about what and how to we do this. It almost seems like they just want to charge us for something we don’t need  

Can anyone please point in the right direction of what to do next. 

Much appreciated 

 

I very much doubt you need PP to moor occasionally there, as the minute they start taking enforcement action you just take the boat away again for a few weeks!

On the other hand if you plan to use it as a permanent residence then yes I'd imagine you need residential PP, even on a boat. I find myself wondering if they appear nto 'backpedal' when you press them on this because your story to them possibly changes subtly each time you ask. I suggest you write to them setting out your intentions clearly and they will write back with a cut and dried answer, or further questions. Once you have a proper answer in writing you can rely on it.

What is the current Planning Permission status of the land? Agricultural I'd imagine? 

Edited November 24, 2017 by Mike the Boilerman

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Machpoint005 said:

Maybe, but the OP is asking legal questions so the correct terminology is vitally important. 

Only in the opinion of pedants, its perfectly obvious what was meant.

Edited November 24, 2017 by MJG

[cereal tiller]

Just now, MJG said:

Only in the opinion of pendants, its perfectly obvious what was meant.

Pendants just like to swing, they have few Opinions.

[rusty69]

4 minutes ago, cereal tiller said:

Pendants just like to swing, they have few Opinions.

Some like to hang down too

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, cereal tiller said:

Pendants just like to swing, they have few Opinions.

I couldn't possibly comment in the exploits of other members.....

[Laurie Booth]

6 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

I very much doubt you need PP to moor occasionally there, as the minute they start taking enforcement action you just take the boat away again for a few weeks!

On the other hand if you plan to use it as a permanent residence then yes I'd imagine you need residential PP, even on a boat. I find myself wondering if they appear nto 'backpedal' when you press them on this because your story to them possibly changes subtly each time you ask. I suggest you write to them setting out your intentions clearly and they will write back with a cut and dried answer, or further questions. Once you have a proper answer in writing you can rely on it.

What is the current Planning Permission status of the land? Agricultural I'd imagine? 

Good luck with dealing with Glos. Council. I'm in my 24th year dealing with them.

[Graham Davis]

Surely the first people the OP should be talking to is the navigation authority for the Severn? Only if they give permission for the mooring should the Council be approached.
No-one has mentioned what charge the Navigation Auth could/will make.
And how will the OP cope with the flooding that occurs on the Severn, or the Bore that reaches there?
 

[David Mack]

15 hours ago, alan_fincher said:

Shouldn't the thread title actually be "mooring ALONGSIDE my own land", unless you actually own part of the river?

A couple of high tides and he will be moored ON his own land.

[MtB]

11 minutes ago, David Mack said:

A couple of high tides and he will be moored ON his own land.

 

I wonder if he already is, given his lack of response!