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Shore line not working


Rockhopper

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Hi all

We have just bought a boat that was previously used as a continuous cruiser and we are trying to connect to shore power without success :( 

Connecting cable has been checked and that’s working ok as is the bollard, so clearly something to do with the boat.

We have a Sine Wave Inverter that we leave on. 

The RCD control has a switch marked 0-3 and we have turned it to position 1 as outlined in the boat reference guide (although for a Sterling converter) and all other switches and nothing seems to happen. The light on the panel for ‘system on’ stays lit red but the light for ‘’correct polarity’ does not come on at all. According to the book this light should come on when connected to shore power.

I’ve attached a pic of our unit if it helps.

Is there anything obvious that we could be missing here? Like another switch we need to think about? We also have onboard solar system and generator which we have been told should not be affecting anything.

Any or guidance on this would be greatly appreciated. Thank you all very muchly :) 

777097AB-41BA-462D-B157-B179A76801B3.jpeg

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Do the red "system on" AND amber "correct polarity" lights come on when connected to the inverter and generator? And I'd assume the switch is a selector switch for the mains source, and that the other positions (2 and 3) are inverter and generator, and that 0 is definitely the off position (ie no red light even with generator running, inverter on and shoreline connected, and mains items on the boat don't work because the power's off etc)

 

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Hi Paul

Thank you so much for your speedy reply.

Ok, so I checked the switch and when turned to 0 and 3, the ‘system on’ light goes off and the power to the boat ceases.

When turned to 1 and 2, the ‘system on’ light stays red and power remains on.

The inverter stays on every turn, so all 0-3 switches.

The light for the ‘correct polarity’ doesn’t come on at all, don’t think we have seen it on since we purchased a few weeks ago.

My other half said that the generator is not connected to the boat but powers to a 13amp socket and another 16amp. Not sure what that means and I do t think he does either ;)

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OK its probably, nay definitely, worth checking that N-E bonding is present and correct in both switch positions. This is too complicated to type into this post but there are other threads on the topic. This is a very important safety issue. Maybe someone else can succinctly explain it here.

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It will be difficult to determine whether the shore power is working or whether power is coming from the inverter, if you leave the inverter on. I would plug into shore power, turn of the inverter and then see if the "system on" light comes on in one of the rotary switch positions, and that the boat's mains sockets are live. That will be the correct position for the shore power! Position 1 or 2 presumably.

You have to turn the inverter off at the inverter, it will not be turned off by that rotary switch, merely its output disconnected. If that all works as expected, we can then start to wonder why the "correct polarity" light is not on. For shore power and assuming a correctly made up cable, if that light isn't coming on the most likely cause is something wrong with the light rather than something wrong with the electricity supply.

With a bit of luck the generator will be connected to the boat's circuits when the rotary knob is in position 3. Try it.

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Doesn't make sense to keep the inverter on if its not being used - ie if no mains devices are being used, or an alternate source of mains power eg shoreline or generator, are being used instead. Inverters have a quiescent current which will still be drawn from the batteries. And with the switching logic so far presented, we've seen no discrimination on whether the battery charger run, or doesn't run, while on inverter/shoreline/genny for the mains source. I suspect it would need to be manually switched on and off as relevant.

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59 minutes ago, Rockhopper said:

 

777097AB-41BA-462D-B157-B179A76801B3.jpeg

Is there a socket that the 3 pin plug in the top of the inverter could reach? Other than the one beside it.

The incoming shore line may power only 1 socket, then the plug on the inverter, is swapped from the inverter to the shoreline socket.

 

Bod

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32 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

I would plug into shore power, turn of the inverter and then see if the "system on" light comes on in one of the rotary switch positions, and that the boat's mains sockets are live. That will be the correct position for the shore power! Position 1 or 2 presumably.

^^^^ This

8 minutes ago, Bod said:

The incoming shore line may power only 1 socket, then the plug on the inverter, is swapped from the inverter to the shoreline socket.

Whilst possible, it makes no sense to have the rotary switch if this were the case. 

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The inverter is not a combi & should not be on when plugged into the mains. Why would it need to be ?  As it's not a combi, there must be be some switching device between the mains input & the inverter output ie a relay. If the mains input is fed into the inverter output, the inverter will probably be destroyed. I suggest you switch off the inverter always when connected to the mains.

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To be fair, this thread is already a random collection of posts and we don't even have any assurance that the OP can check if the mains power is on or not, based on the posts he's made "nothing seems to happen" - if the shoreline is connected but no mains devices are plugged in and switched on, nothing will happen!! So, let's start with the very basics: you need a surefire way of checking if the mains is on or not. I'd suggest a lamp of some kind, plugged into a socket. Secondly, leaving the inverter on is going to confuse troubleshooting, it needs to be turned off to ensure that when we're testing for mains power from the shoreline, we can 100% say "mains power is coming from the shoreline" or not. The chances that its output is inadvertently wired to the shoreline is unlikely, but not impossible (and would quickly destroy the inverter - so the wiring should never allow this). Thirdly, without the "correct polarity" light being lit, we cannot say for sure whether the incorrect polarity is being supplied, or if there's a wiring/bulb issue with the switch and panel (or both). The fact that there is a generator but its not integrated into the mains input switching is a side issue, but one which points towards an incomplete or erroneous installation (after all, you'd want the boat's sockets and battery charger powered while the genny is on, not need to unplug stuff and plug it into a different bunch of sockets etc). And the solar switch is a red herring too - that's the 12V side, which is a completely different kettle of fish!

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Oh my, overwhelmed by the responses, amazing! Thank you all :)

Just out at the moment but will be back at the boat around 10pm so will certainly follow your advice and tips to help us get to the bottom of this! 

I’ll keep you a posted on how we do.

Thanks again everyone!

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We used to have an inverter like that. Yep, turn the inverter off. Those sockets on top of the inverter will then be dead even if shore power is available. Unplug that plug as well just to be sure (where does that plug go to as a matter of interest?). On ours there was a relay that went "dunk" when the shore power came on, can you hear such a thing? The shore power should have an RCD trip device somewhere fairly close to the socket that you plug the external cable into, has that tripped?

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59 minutes ago, Bod said:

Is there a socket that the 3 pin plug in the top of the inverter could reach? Other than the one beside it.

The incoming shore line may power only 1 socket, then the plug on the inverter, is swapped from the inverter to the shoreline socket.

 

Bod

I think this suggestion is correct, as the inverter is feeding the 240v connecting power to the three pin plug, when removed from the inverter would supply power to your boat. Not an ideal situation but one i've seen before. 

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It's worth buying a mains test plug like this one: https://www.screwfix.com/p/lap-ms6860d-socket-tester/91596?tc=CT1&ds_rl=1249481&ds_rl=1245250&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIr_3ywMLQ1wIVA7ftCh0ujQH2EAQYBSABEgJOYvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds&dclid=CNDP08jC0NcCFSOA7QodYaIDlQ

It lets you safely test each socket to see that all is well with the supply. Even if you can't understand what it's telling you, it makes it easier for the experts on here to advise.

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28 minutes ago, BWM said:

I think this suggestion is correct, as the inverter is feeding the 240v connecting power to the three pin plug, when removed from the inverter would supply power to your boat. Not an ideal situation but one i've seen before. 

This is the situation we've got, one plug, that either goes to inverter, or shoreline ,or generator.

Suits me, it's so simple, I can understand it!

 

Bod

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1 hour ago, Flyboy said:

The inverter is not a combi & should not be on when plugged into the mains. Why would it need to be ?  As it's not a combi, there must be be some switching device between the mains input & the inverter output ie a relay. If the mains input is fed into the inverter output, the inverter will probably be destroyed. I suggest you switch off the inverter always when connected to the mains.

Who’s talking about connecting the mains to the inverter output? Presumably the rotary Switch selects off - mains - inverter - genny (but not necessarily in that order). Yes, the inverter should be switched off when on shore power but that’s purely to save the quiescent drain not for some non-existent explosion risk. 

58 minutes ago, Alway Swilby said:

where does that plug go to as a matter of interest?

I’ll lay money on it going to position 1 or 2 on that rotary Switch. That’s what the Switch is for. 

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2 hours ago, Rockhopper said:

My other half said that the generator is not connected to the boat but powers to a 13amp socket and another 16amp. Not sure what that means and I do t think he does either ;)

When you’ve sussed out positions 1 & 2 on the Switch you may well find that 3 is the genny. Or maybe not, one thing at a time. (RCD will be another thing we need to check). 

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1 hour ago, Alway Swilby said:

The shore power should have an RCD trip device somewhere fairly close to the socket that you plug the external cable into...

I sincerely hope that it hasn’t. Having two RCDs in series on the boat is a pain, and there should be one in (or adjacent to) the consumer unit which protects all sockets. 

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25 minutes ago, WotEver said:

Who’s talking about connecting the mains to the inverter output? Presumably the rotary Switch selects off - mains - inverter - genny (but not necessarily in that order). Yes, the inverter should be switched off when on shore power but that’s purely to save the quiescent drain not for some non-existent explosion risk. 

I’ll lay money on it going to position 1 or 2 on that rotary Switch. That’s what the Switch is for. 

What I was trying to say was that there must be a problem between the incoming mains & the inverter output , probably the 3 position Switch ( or maybe a changeover relay) somewhere which doesn't seem to do anything according to the OP. What I was saying is that If the mains was to fed into the inverter output it would probably destroyed .

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4 minutes ago, Flyboy said:

What I was trying to say was that there must be a problem between the incoming mains & the inverter output , probably the 3 position Switch ( or maybe a changeover relay) somewhere which doesn't seem to do anything according to the OP. What I was saying is that If the mains was to fed into the inverter output it would probably destroyed .

I’m not sure there is a problem. I think it could just be a case of the OP not realising that she is successfully switching between the inverter output and the shore power.

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