The Boating Season

[Naughty Cal]

15 minutes ago, Horace42 said:

Do the lock keepers really care!   For practical reasons what can they do? How do they know if you have a license before you enter the lock- it is a bit late to find out once you are in. And what power do they have to prevent passage as a disciplinary measure? Apart from reporting you to CRT.

However, I can imagine a situation if you have no valid license where they could refuse to open the other gates to let you out - and assuming you were the only boat - keep you in until the next boat arrived - which could be a long time if it was quiet - specially if you picked the day when the other boats happened to be unlicensed as well.

On the non tidal Trent at least the unlicensed boats move after the lockies have clocked off for the day.

[Momac]

2 hours ago, Horace42 said:

Do the lock keepers really care!   For practical reasons what can they do? 

It is part of the lock keepers  job (on the Trent) to keep a log of the boat names, license numbers and license  expiry dates.

I don't think the lock keepers can do a great deal other than report unlicensed boats. 

 

[Mike Todd]

23 minutes ago, MartynG said:

It is part of the lock keepers  job (on the Trent) to keep a log of the boat names, license numbers and license  expiry dates.

I don't think the lock keepers can do a great deal other than report unlicensed boats. 

 

When we were at Selby earlier this year the lockie was very clear what he can and cannot do regarding unlicensed boats - as a point of access onto the CaRT system this is clearly more likely than elsewhere. No licence no passage was very much the message and there is no boater only operation so it can be enforced. However, he was also clear that there are circumstances when he must admit a boat regardless - ie when there is a safety issue - but he will then prevent further passage. Being penned in Selby lock for a period of time is not really something to be relished!

Overall, my impression is that the permanent staff are trained to minimise unnecessary fuss whilst still being very aware that there are limits to how far they should be pushed. My guess is that there will be cases (and one can think of one documented on another thread) where matters may get out of control for the boater before they have time to think through the consequences. But these will be rare and most will be put onto a slow track enforcement process unless, as at Selby, there is a more direct way.

That sounds worryingly almost like commonsense to me!

[Wanderer Vagabond]

4 hours ago, Mike Todd said:

When we were at Selby earlier this year the lockie was very clear what he can and cannot do regarding unlicensed boats - as a point of access onto the CaRT system this is clearly more likely than elsewhere. No licence no passage was very much the message and there is no boater only operation so it can be enforced. However, he was also clear that there are circumstances when he must admit a boat regardless - ie when there is a safety issue - but he will then prevent further passage. Being penned in Selby lock for a period of time is not really something to be relished!

Overall, my impression is that the permanent staff are trained to minimise unnecessary fuss whilst still being very aware that there are limits to how far they should be pushed. My guess is that there will be cases (and one can think of one documented on another thread) where matters may get out of control for the boater before they have time to think through the consequences. But these will be rare and most will be put onto a slow track enforcement process unless, as at Selby, there is a more direct way.

That sounds worryingly almost like commonsense to me!

I think that the position at Selby is a bit one-way. If you come down Selby Canal to the lock he wont let you out onto the Ouse, if you arrive on the Ouse he's not really going to have much option but to let you in on safety grounds (he's not going to be able to see whether or not you are licensed anyway until you are in the lock). Again, another lock where I had no queries regarding my licence status.

[Mike Todd]

10 hours ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

I think that the position at Selby is a bit one-way. If you come down Selby Canal to the lock he wont let you out onto the Ouse, if you arrive on the Ouse he's not really going to have much option but to let you in on safety grounds (he's not going to be able to see whether or not you are licensed anyway until you are in the lock). Again, another lock where I had no queries regarding my licence status.

That was not my observation: the lock keepers in that area are in frequent contact and generally at Selby they have a good idea when a boat arrives that is not registered. The first suspicion is when it arrives without having given notice - it may be lack of knowledge or experience but usually someone trying to keep under the radar.

I did not actually see anyone being refused but the indication I was given was that this was a real option but, of course, depends on the state of the tide and the size of the vessel. In that location it is more likely to be a lumpy water boat and sending them back down again is not a safety issue.

[Horace42]

21 hours ago, Naughty Cal said:

No licence no passage.

Yes, but what can they do to enforce 'no passage' if you do not voluntarily comply with their instructions ?

add ps.  It should not be the responsibility of lock-keepers to to 'enforce' licensing laws - reporting yes. But that is all. 

Edited November 27, 2017 by Horace42

[Tuscan]

13 minutes ago, Horace42 said:

add ps.  It should not be the responsibility of lock-keepers to to 'enforce' licensing laws - reporting yes. But that is all.

If not someone appointed by CRT whose responsibility is it ?

[Horace42]

16 minutes ago, Tuscan said:

If not someone appointed by CRT whose responsibility is it ?

It is the responsibility of the boat owner to ensure the license fee is paid - and properly displayed.

[Mike Todd]

If you attempt entry to a concert, football match, exhibition, train, plane etc where a ticket is required the ticket checkers at the door will surely refuse to admit you if you fail to show a valid ticket. If you refuse to go away quietly then you can expect some fairly determined response. They will also know that if you continue to try to get in and make a public order offence then it is time to call the police who are the ultimate enforcement agency. (Remember that trespass is a civil matter so it has to escalate to a criminal offence before the police can respond to a call)

I'm unclear why canal licences are any different.

[Wanderer Vagabond]

4 hours ago, Mike Todd said:

That was not my observation: the lock keepers in that area are in frequent contact and generally at Selby they have a good idea when a boat arrives that is not registered. The first suspicion is when it arrives without having given notice - it may be lack of knowledge or experience but usually someone trying to keep under the radar.

I did not actually see anyone being refused but the indication I was given was that this was a real option but, of course, depends on the state of the tide and the size of the vessel. In that location it is more likely to be a lumpy water boat and sending them back down again is not a safety issue.

You don't think sending a sea-going boat back through the shallows at Howden Dyke on an ebbing tide would be a safety issue?

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

On 21/11/2017 at 18:13, Victor Vectis said:

I've been out for a jaunt on the boat today.

I didn't queue at any locks.

No one shouted 'SLOW DOWN' in my direction.

No one asked if my boat was licenced.

No trouble finding a mooring.

Good innit!

Same.

Done half a dozen locks today, slowly, with no pressure from anyone in a hurry. Had time to take in the scenery. Very relaxing. Not a boat anywhere.  Beautiful sunshine, fresh and cold. 

I took three hours to do what I might have normally done in less than two. 

Bloody good innit 

Looking forward to a few more locks tomorrow. 

 

Edited November 28, 2017 by Goliath
To bring this to the top, to remind some folk what theyre mossing.

[ditchcrawler]

1 hour ago, Goliath said:

Same.

Done half a dozen locks today, slowly, with no pressure from anyone in a hurry. Had time to take in the scenery. Very relaxing. Not a boat anywhere.  Beautiful sunshine, fresh and cold. 

I took three hours to do what I might have normally done in less than two. 

Bloody good innit 

Looking forward to a few more locks tomorrow. 

 

We caught up with a boater just finishing their breakfast sat in a lock

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

20 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

We caught up with a boater just finishing their breakfast sat in a lock

I'm on wide locks, we could have shared brecky if that were me. 

[noddyboater]

On 27/11/2017 at 12:24, Horace42 said:

Yes, but what can they do to enforce 'no passage' if you do not voluntarily comply with their instructions ?

add ps.  It should not be the responsibility of lock-keepers to to 'enforce' licensing laws - reporting yes. But that is all. 

I once got impounded in Newark Nether Lock by the ever so efficient keeper before the volunteers took over. After checking my boat name/number he disappeared into his office and instead of opening the gates came back and said "You won't be continuing your journey as I've just phoned Watford and this boat is unlicensed"

I explained that my application was late being returned and had ended up at Leeds and was now somewhere in the post etc etc.. but more importantly what would happen when the next boat came through?! 

[Horace42]

3 hours ago, noddyboater said:

I once got impounded in Newark Nether Lock by the ever so efficient keeper............................... etc etc.. but more importantly what would happen when the next boat came through?! 

What did happen? Even impounded you are still unlicensed and unless the lock-keeper has facilities to take your money and issue a license - nothing has changed and you will be trapped in the lock or between locks (assuming other lock-keepers are as diligent.)

 

[matty40s]

7 minutes ago, Horace42 said:

What did happen? 

 

He's still there.

 

[Horace42]

1 minute ago, matty40s said:

He's still there.

 

....a letter is on the way warning about exceeding 14 days at one spot .

[Sea Dog]

3 hours ago, noddyboater said:

I once got impounded in Newark Nether Lock by the ever so efficient keeper before the volunteers took over. After checking my boat name/number he disappeared into his office and instead of opening the gates came back and said "You won't be continuing your journey as I've just phoned Watford and this boat is unlicensed"

I explained that my application was late being returned and had ended up at Leeds and was now somewhere in the post etc etc.. but more importantly what would happen when the next boat came through?! 

What happened next? Did you discover that protesting by staying in a lock began to have its ups and downs?

[noddyboater]

I mentioned the obvious- that he was due to finish work soon and I could then let myself out with my key. He disappeared again and after another phone call agreed I could proceed but must call at the office in Newark and get a signed note to back my story up!  He also radioed all the keepers upstream who then asked upon my arrival to see the note. 

It's always amusing when the volunteers who are on in season ask your destination. I like to do a long day heading back up north with an early start from Sawley. The first keeper I meet will usually be at Holme where the conversation goes something like;  Where are you heading for Skipper?

Torksey.

No, I meant today? 

Yes, Torksey, today. Or I would be if you'd kindly open the paddles and get things moving.

You'll not be going that far today. I'll put Newark. 

 

[Sea Dog]

1 hour ago, noddyboater said:

I mentioned the obvious- that he was due to finish work soon and I could then let myself out with my key. He disappeared again and after another phone call agreed I could proceed but must call at the office in Newark and get a signed note to back my story up!  He also radioed all the keepers upstream who then asked upon my arrival to see the note. 

It's always amusing when the volunteers who are on in season ask your destination. I like to do a long day heading back up north with an early start from Sawley. The first keeper I meet will usually be at Holme where the conversation goes something like;  Where are you heading for Skipper?

Torksey.

No, I meant today? 

Yes, Torksey, today. Or I would be if you'd kindly open the paddles and get things moving.

You'll not be going that far today. I'll put Newark. 

 

Crikey, do you have similar confrontations every time you go through manned locks? I've never encountered anything like it - doesn't it get rather tedious?

[Naughty Cal]

14 hours ago, Sea Dog said:

Crikey, do you have similar confrontations every time you go through manned locks? I've never encountered anything like it - doesn't it get rather tedious?

I was just thinking the same. We usually exchange pleasantries with the lockies, give them the index number and name if they ask or can't see them and get on our way.

I'm starting to think we are doing something wrong