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continuosly cruising....how far are you suppose to go..


katty45

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From the CRT website (although not everyone agrees!):

Continuous cruising

If you have no ties (such as jobs, which tie you to one place or children at school), you can opt to cruise the canals non-stop, never staying at the same place for more than a fortnight. If you can't do this, then you'll need to have a home mooring before buying your licence.

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1 minute ago, Sea Dog said:

From the CRT website (although not everyone agrees!):

Continuous cruising

If you have no ties (such as jobs, which tie you to one place or children at school), you can opt to cruise the canals non-stop, never staying at the same place for more than a fortnight. If you can't do this, then you'll need to have a home mooring before buying your licence.

I heard something about going to A to b to c...??

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Though I am not a continuous cruiser myself, I think that the answer to your question is "CART won't tell you but they may fine you if you don't go far enough" - a most unsatisfactory and illogical state of affairs which has understandably led to much resentment amongst boaters.

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2 minutes ago, Athy said:

Though I am not a continuous cruiser myself, I think that the answer to your question is "CART won't tell you but they may fine you if you don't go far enough" - a most unsatisfactory and illogical state of affairs which has understandably led to much resentment amongst boaters.

CRT cannot fine you,  they may issue you with a letter, them restrict your licence to a shorter period where you have to move in a way that 'satisfies the board' to get your full licence back.....or lose your licence altogether and have to leave CRT waters or have your boat taken off you. 

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18 minutes ago, Sea Dog said:

From the CRT website (although not everyone agrees!):

Continuous cruising

If you have no ties (such as jobs, which tie you to one place or children at school), you can opt to cruise the canals non-stop, never staying at the same place for more than a fortnight. If you can't do this, then you'll need to have a home mooring before buying your licence.

 

4 minutes ago, katty45 said:

on their website it says no shuffling...wonder what shuffling means then...

Shuffling means " Extracting the urine " Seadog has put it in a nutshell so you need a mooring with work, kids at school etc it realy is that simple. When the law was introduced it was meant that people who MOVE THEIR BOATS AROUND not just " Shuffle " didn't need a mooring a fair bit of legislation the problem is of recent years pee takers move onto a boat and treat it as a house which it isn't cos houses don't move or float. Just as a for instance when we set off out this caravan park in march on the T and M canal we are gong south to Bristol then north to York, that's what continuous cruising is. Of course theres nowt to say you need to travel that far but I suppose even if you only do a total of  say 300 miles a year that may loosely be described as continuous cruising. I hope this explanation has helped. :)

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1 minute ago, katty45 said:

on their website it says no shuffling...wonder what shuffling means then...

Shuffling means moving back and forth amongst a small number of mooring sites, so as to remain in the same general area (such as where you want to remain in easy reach of a School)

Clearly moving back and forth A > B > A > B is not what is meant by Continuous cruising.

So, you effectively ask "Is A > B > C > B > A > B Ok then?"

The answer is "It depends".

You would clearly like a definitive answer, so that you know exactly what you have to do, but a definitive answer is not possible.

What can be given is an answer that says "If you do this, CRT will be satisfied" Some may then complain that this is more than CRT are entitled to demand of you, but the question is always "Do you want to know what will definitely be OK, or do you want to fight the fight?"

 

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I have a full time non boat based job and manage to CC and get to my office without many dramas. Previously I completed a couple of laps of the Warwickshire Ring but now I no longer work in Coventry, I've reduced the route around work in Birmingham.

Where I moor (West Midlands, between Birmingham and Lapworth) there is a niceish circular route which is about 21 miles. It is quite lock heavy in sections and I tend to always stop in the same spots en-route. It takes 10 weeks before I return to any of my previous stops. When I get bored of doing the same route, I tend to spend a month in Birmingham on a winter mooring, then reverse the route. I tend to moor off the VMs where possible and don't mind a bit of a walk, so have always managed to find a spot. Not sure what your cruising area is like though.

So far, the only time I appeared on C&RT's watch list was nearly three years ago when I was moored in Sherborne Wharf. It was only supposed to be temporary, while I dealt with a bereavement, so didn't notify C&RT that I was no longer CCing, however, it ended up as a six month stay and because I hadn't been 'sighted', they said I could only have a six month licence at renewal time. It was all sorted by a couple of phone calls and I have always been 'allowed' a normal 12 month licence since.

To answer your question; the rules are thankfully deliberately vague but reading C&RT's paperwork, I think the very basic minimum requirement is to not stay anywhere for longer than two weeks at a time and not return within 28 days and cover 20 miles per year. Therefore to comply with the absolute minimum requirement (as I currently understand it), you need to find four stopping points about five miles apart. When you get to the fourth, return to the first and start again.

Rob

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10 minutes ago, Athy said:

So their threats of a £25 per day fine for people who overstay are just talk, then? 

Bluntly yes.  But the £25 overstaying charge/fine has nothing to do with continuous cruising.  It is intended to apply to all boaters.

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10 minutes ago, mayalld said:

Shuffling means moving back and forth amongst a small number of mooring sites, so as to remain in the same general area (such as where you want to remain in easy reach of a School)

Clearly moving back and forth A > B > A > B is not what is meant by Continuous cruising.

So, you effectively ask "Is A > B > C > B > A > B Ok then?"

The answer is "It depends".

You would clearly like a definitive answer, so that you know exactly what you have to do, but a definitive answer is not possible.

What can be given is an answer that says "If you do this, CRT will be satisfied" Some may then complain that this is more than CRT are entitled to demand of you, but the question is always "Do you want to know what will definitely be OK, or do you want to fight the fight?"

 

I'm afraid I can't agree with that.  The actual answer even for A>B>A>B is also "It depends".

From the judge's comments in the CRT v Mayers case:

"To take an extreme example, in its heyday, the Mersey Ferry operated continuously to and fro over the same stretch of water which is less than a mile wide.  No one would ever have accepted the suggestion that the ferry boats were not bona fide used for navigation throughout the period of their operations."

The legal test is whether the use of the boat is bona-fide for navigation.  The cruising pattern has some relevance to this, but is not the only consideration.

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7 minutes ago, Dave_P said:

Bluntly yes.  But the £25 overstaying charge/fine has nothing to do with continuous cruising.  It is intended to apply to all boaters.

Yes, and therefor it applies to continuous cruisers.

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3 minutes ago, Athy said:

Yes, and therefor it applies to continuous cruisers.

:banghead:

Many things apply to continuous cruisers.  However, the OP's question was "what are the rules for continuous cruisers?".  The £25 overstaying charge on a small number of visitor moorings has no relevance to the rules for continuous cruisers.

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2 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

Saying "How far are you supposed to go" sort of instantly implies that you have no intention of actually continuously cruising, because if you you were, you wouldn't need an answer.  What you actually mean is, "How can i avoid having a residential mooring by bending the rules and still avoid any hassle", and the real answer is you probably can, but you might not be able to, and no-one knows and no-one's going to tell you, because CRT are the only people who could and it isn't in their interest to do so, even if they legally could, which they can't because it isn't really defined.

The only way you'll find out is if CRT refuse you a licence and then take you to court to take your boat off you because you haven't got one.  If you can live with the possibility, fair enough. If you can't, the probable best bet if you need relatively cheap accommodation is a caravan site or, of course, a residential mooring (or a mooring where residence is allowed, which is not always the same thing).

Harsh, but true.

But a newbie to the Inland waterways will not have knowledge of the 'history' behind her question.

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Just now, Athy said:

What does this mean? In your own words, this charge "is intended to apply to all boaters". "All boaters" includes continuous cruisers. Ergo, the charge does apply to them.

OK I give up.

I'm sure you'll advising the OP of how to empty his toilet though.  Since continuous cruisers usually have toilets.

 

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26 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

 

Shuffling means " Extracting the urine " Seadog has put it in a nutshell so you need a mooring with work, kids at school etc 

Nonsense.

I covered hundreds of miles continuously cruising throughout the Midlands whilst never being more than 1 hour's drive to work.

Admittedly Nottingham is not so convenient canalwise as where I worked but there are still plenty of waterways to travel along to keep below the radar.

If you can't be bothered to go boating though, you need a mooring.

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Just now, Dave_P said:

OK I give up.

I'm sure you'll advising the OP of how to empty his toilet though.  Since continuous cruisers usually have toilets.

 

Good, because I am obviously right.

I don't see the relevance of toilets, though - except that they should be emptied at least every 14 days, though whether in the same place or not is optional.

The O.P. is a she, by the way.

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1 hour ago, katty45 said:

whats the rules on continuosly cruising?.

The only 'rule' that is different for CCers is enshrined in the 1995 Waterways Act and states:

(ii)the applicant for the relevant consent satisfies the Board that the vessel to which the application relates will be used bona fide for navigation throughout the period for which the consent is valid without remaining continuously in any one place for more than 14 days or such longer period as is reasonable in the circumstances.

 

The question is what is meant by bona fide navigation and the likely-hood that your interpretation is different to C&RTs

YOU must SATISFY C&RT that you will meet the requirements, as has been said, if C&RT consider that you are not complying all sorts of nasty things happen to you.

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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You have to use your boat bone fide for navigation, how you do this is up to you, this is what is so great about it, no detailed rules and regulations about exactly how often you move or how far you move etc. People navigate in many different styles. If your aim is to move the minimum distance you can then that's not bone fide navigation, which is actually pretty much what a judge said in one of the many court cases.

Oscillation between three adjacent moorings won't cut the mustard. Oscillation between 12 most likely will as long as its not 90% of the time at two of them and 10% at the rest. Three places might just do it if they are a long way apart and not "honeyspots".

Make a plan and discuss it with CaRT ?????

.............Dave 

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8 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

The only 'rule' that is different for CCers is enshrined in the 1995 Waterways Act and states:

(ii)the applicant for the relevant consent satisfies the Board that the vessel to which the application relates will be used bona fide for navigation throughout the period for which the consent is valid without remaining continuously in any one place for more than 14 days or such longer period as is reasonable in the circumstances.

 

The question is what is meant by bona fide navigation and the likely-hood that your interpretation is different to C&RTs

YOU must SATISFY C&RT that you will meet the requirements, as has been said, if C&RT consider that you are not complying all sorts of nasty things happen to you.

This is probably the most concise and straightforward answer that anyone has even given to this question.  Anything else is likely to be irrelevant or conjecture.

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A lot of the waterways around the Nottingham area are rivers (Trent and Soar), which can go in to (extreme) flood and have restricted mooring sites, or are canals which are a bit dodgy in places and restrict the number of mooring spots you can sensibly use for pseudo continuous cruising. I would go for a mooring, not necessarily residential and explore the area by boat for starters. Should give you more of a feel for how happy you are leaving a boat in different spots. If you are OK going as far as Loughborough, Newark, Burton as a radius say, then you should be able to keep below the radar and have some interesting canals and rivers to explore. There is a good rail network around there with stations for getting in to Nottingham that are often close to the canals.

Jen, who wonders why no one ever asks the question "What is the maximum distance I can travel and number of mooring sites I can use and still be reckoned to have a home mooring?".

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1 minute ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

 

Jen, who wonders why no one ever asks the question "What is the maximum distance I can travel and number of mooring sites I can use and still be reckoned to have a home mooring?".

I think they do, Jen, I can certainly remember similar questions being asked in these pages. It has usually been in relation to a "ghost mooring", so the angle of the question tends to be, "If I have a home mooring, do I ever need to visit it?" As you would expect, the answer has been an emphatic "yes" - or an emphatic "no"!

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