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Stove Fan Effectiveness Question


BlueStringPudding

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You may be right Tony but what I meant is that the average stove fitted in a narrowboat is not a convection stove by design, in that it does not have any convection pipes as the Scandahoolie designs do.  I can't find any figure to say how much heat is spread by convection and how much is spread by radiation.  But even a purely radiant heater will cause some convection currents.  The difference from my perspective is whether a fire would be uncomfortably hot to sit too close too.  If so, it is a radiant fire.

When I win the lottery, my next stove will be a Scandahoolie, convection type.  (Aided by a fan, but mains powered not a Seebeck / Stirling).

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23 minutes ago, mross said:

You may be right Tony but what I meant is that the average stove fitted in a narrowboat is not a convection stove by design...

Oh absolutely :)  They’re radiant heaters which deliver most of their heat by convection :P

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9 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

I have found over years of use that just whacking more fuel on fire and/or opening the air thingy at the bottom everywhere gets mooch otter, just sayin like.

Yeah but I bet your stove has a black finish,  unfortunately due the BSPs style over substance white stove she gets absolutely no heat from it at all

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1 minute ago, tree monkey said:

Yeah but I bet your stove has a black finish,  unfortunately due the BSPs style over substance white stove she gets absolutely no heat from it at all

Au contrair. She’ll get every bit as much convected heat as anyone else. She won’t have much radiant heat though. 

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9 minutes ago, WotEver said:

Au contrair. She’ll get every bit as much convected heat as anyone else. She won’t have much radiant heat though. 

Well right now she is sat in front of her fire wrapped in a multitude of blankets with just her nose exposed to the air, whilst her stove burns 2 bags a day and flame shoots out of the chimney,  so there.

 

;):)

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Just now, tree monkey said:

Well right now she is sat in front of her fire wrapped in a multitude of blankets with just her nose exposed to the air, whilst her stove burns 2 bags a day and flame shoots out of the chimney,  so there.

 

;):)

Don’t spoil my argument with facts please ;)

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1 minute ago, tree monkey said:

Well right now she is sat in front of her fire wrapped in a multitude of blankets with just her nose exposed to the air, whilst her stove burns 2 bags a day and flame shoots out of the chimney,  so there.

 

;):)

Thats where she's going wrong. No use burning bags, unless of course they are knitted. 

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Just to add fuel to this fire........I am sitting reading all this tech talk about radiation convection in my new to me lumpy water boat heated by a thermostatically controlled Propex forced air heater set to 16 deg centigrade in my teesheet and pyjama trous but why did I feel cosier in front of my woodburner in the narrowboat that my son lives in now?

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1 minute ago, Springer Skipper said:

Just to add fuel to this fire........I am sitting reading all this tech talk about radiation convection in my new to me lumpy water boat heated by a thermostatically controlled Propex forced air heater set to 16 deg centigrade in my teesheet and pyjama trous but why did I feel cosier in front of my woodburner in the narrowboat that my son lives in now?

Cos you could see the comforting flame. 

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10 minutes ago, Springer Skipper said:

Just to add fuel to this fire........I am sitting reading all this tech talk about radiation convection in my new to me lumpy water boat heated by a thermostatically controlled Propex forced air heater set to 16 deg centigrade in my teesheet and pyjama trous but why did I feel cosier in front of my woodburner in the narrowboat that my son lives in now?

Forced Air Heaters can cause Draughts, especially if the warm Air flow is passing a window.

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On 19/11/2017 at 20:58, Springer Skipper said:

Just to add fuel to this fire........I am sitting reading all this tech talk about radiation convection in my new to me lumpy water boat heated by a thermostatically controlled Propex forced air heater set to 16 deg centigrade in my teesheet and pyjama trous but why did I feel cosier in front of my woodburner in the narrowboat that my son lives in now?

 

It's all to do with the concept of the' radiant temperature' of a room. No-one ever seems to know about anything this except a few heating engineers. 

A room with a radiant heat source has not only warm air from convection but the heat source warms you directly with radiation. Further, the walls ceiling and floor are also heated radiantly by the heat source directly, and they in turn radiate at you and heat you.  So the average radiant temperature of a room is higher than a room with just a convection heat cource. All objects have a radiant temperature including you,  more accurately the net radiant heat flow from you to the walls floor and ceiling is lower as the radiant temperature difference between you and the walls, floor etc is reduced. 

A forced air device like a Propex does none of this. It heats only the air so you get no heat radiated from the heat source or from the walls. floor and ceiling. Hence you the 'radiant temperature' of the room is far lower than the air temp, and you feel colder.

I don't feel I've explained this well but I'll stop editing it and just post it. Some here will understand what I'd trying to explain, others won't. 

 

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9 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

I don't feel I've explained this well but I'll stop editing it and just post it. Some here will understand what I'd trying to explain, others won't. 

It makes perfect sense to me :)

Sometimes in our living room at home, especially if we’re maybe a bit under the weather, we feel that the house is cool even though the ‘stat is showing the normal temp. Lighting the gas fire warms us up immediately and gets both Yorkies removing themselves from their beds to lay on the mat in front of it. It’s the radiant heat that does it, not the extra degree or so that comes from the convection. 

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12 hours ago, Springer Skipper said:

Just to add fuel to this fire........I am sitting reading all this tech talk about radiation convection in my new to me lumpy water boat heated by a thermostatically controlled Propex forced air heater set to 16 deg centigrade in my teesheet and pyjama trous but why did I feel cosier in front of my woodburner in the narrowboat that my son lives in now?

16 deg? Brrr, that could never achieve cosyness, ok when working but when relaxing it's 20 deg minimum for me. 

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9 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

It's all to do with the concept of the' radiant temperature' of a room. No-one ever seems to know about anything this except a few heating engineers. 

A room with a radiant heat source has not only warm air from convection but the heat source warms you directly with radiation. Further, the walls ceiling and floor are also heated radiantly by the heat source directly, and they in turn radiate at you and heat you.  So the average radiant temperature of a room is higher than a room with just a convection heat cource. All objects have a radiant temperature including you,  more accurately the net radiant heat flow from you to the walls floor and ceiling is lower as the radiant temperature difference between you and the walls, floor etc is reduced. 

A forced air device like a Propex does none of this. It heats only the air so you get no heat radiated from the heat source or from the walls. floor and ceiling. Hence you the 'radiant temperature' of the room is far lower than the air temp, and you feel colder.

I don't feel I've explained this well but I'll stop editing it and just post it. Some here will understand what I'd trying to explain, others won't. 

 

4

Mike, I think you have explained it quite well.  Here is a thermal comfort calculator which backs up what you say.  It includes all the factors which lead to comfort.  It's fun to tweak the settings to see what makes an ideal temp for different clothing and activity levels.  Also, to see how much effect humidity has.

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