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What do I look for when buying?


PeterCr

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When we bought Lazy Bee in 2015 we asked the forum for a recommendation for a surveyor to have a quick look re the price and then made an offer subject to the subsequent survey. We have been told that we were very brave but we are extremely happy with our "Bee". We didn' have the option to fly over at that time so we understood that it was a huge gamble but it did pay off. Also A.B.N.B. were very good to deal with.

I don' know which part of Oz your from but if you want p.m. me, I may be able to help in some small way.

Harley

P.S. sorry haven't been on the site for a few days so missed the original post.

 

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On 11/19/2017 at 01:30, tree monkey said:

I've been looking for quite some time now and there aren't many boats that tick my very fussy box!

Exactamundo! I've really only seen 3 or 4 boats (online) in the last 4 or 5 months that I'd seriously look at. The problem heading over there for a week or 2 to look at boats is that there are very few that we'd really consider, and if nothing came up in that week or 2 I've wasted quite a bit of money on air fares, accommodation, car hire etc and not got a boat.

If we were looking for a trad there's stacks of choice, and plenty of really nice boats to look at. But a reverse layout semi trad is far harder to find, and I think more expensive because of this.

We'd like to do a month's cruise in April then a month in June next year, so if we skipped April we've still got 6 months to go. I'm really - really hoping this market cools down soon.

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I have see one at the boat supermarket and made an offer subject to receiving answers to questions.

I assume by boat supermarket you mean Appollo Duck. I've got a bookmarked list of about a thousand brokers (well maybe not a thousand but it seems that way when I look through them all) but none of them are called boat supermarket :)

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Why don't you tell us your budget/preferred spend, length, type (semi/cruiser/trad), engine room or not, layout

Here we go. We like a boat where my wife can sit comfortably while we cruise (hip problems). We hired from Aqua who have what they call a semi cruiser stern. So it's got comfortable seats on the cruiser stern with good storage under the seats. We'd be happy with a cruiser stern like that but so far all the cruiser sterns I see are a large open deck with little or no seating, or if it has seating it's just an uncomfortable railing.

Otherwise a semi trad with seating in the cockpit. 55 - 60 feet. We did see a nice boat at 63 feet bit eventually decided it was too restricting at 63 feet and decided not to go and look at it. 

Reverse layout, rear galley not rear saloon though if a great boat comes along with rear saloon we'd consider it. No traditional layouts. So from aft it's galley, saloon, bathroom and bedroom. I have seen some with rear galley and forward saloon. That doesn't really work to me.

Budget. I started looking online a year or 2 ago. Not to buy at that stage but to get an idea. Back then I felt that 55k - 60k should buy a nice boat, late model, well maintained, reputable engine with low hours. Now I suspect that it will be at least 10k more than that and if necessary we'll go to that.

For that sort of money we'd like to see some good extras. Those include washing machine, nice tv, solid fuel heater, solar panels, cratch cover, good motor with low hours, good capacity inverter and so on. We won't of course get all of this but some would be nice. Some form of dining, perhaps a dinette though open plan if necessary, we can always add a table and chairs.

Ideally a cross bed would be great but inline is ok, we've used both. But if we had a choice a cross bed. Walk through bathroom would be nice with a good quality shower. Preference is composting toilet but I think that's as good as impossible. We'll be stuck with whatever toilet we get though we'd prefer not to have a pump out. We've gone through the blocked pump out scenario. 

And we love our duck doors. Well side doors but we feed the ducks from them so they're duck doors to us.

So like you Markinaboat we haven't seen many that tick our very fussy box.

Good luck with your offer by the way.

Edited by PeterCr
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6 hours ago, PeterCr said:

Exactamundo! I've really only seen 3 or 4 boats (online) in the last 4 or 5 months that I'd seriously look at. The problem heading over there for a week or 2 to look at boats is that there are very few that we'd really consider, and if nothing came up in that week or 2 I've wasted quite a bit of money on air fares, accommodation, car hire etc and not got a boat.

If we were looking for a trad there's stacks of choice, and plenty of really nice boats to look at. But a reverse layout semi trad is far harder to find, and I think more expensive because of this.

We'd like to do a month's cruise in April then a month in June next year, so if we skipped April we've still got 6 months to go. I'm really - really hoping this market cools down soon.

I assume by boat supermarket you mean Appollo Duck. I've got a bookmarked list of about a thousand brokers (well maybe not a thousand but it seems that way when I look through them all) but none of them are called boat supermarket :)

Here we go. We like a boat where my wife can sit comfortably while we cruise (hip problems). We hired from Aqua who have what they call a semi cruiser stern. So it's got comfortable seats on the cruiser stern with good storage under the seats. We'd be happy with a cruiser stern like that but so far all the cruiser sterns I see are a large open deck with little or no seating, or if it has seating it's just an uncomfortable railing.

Otherwise a semi trad with seating in the cockpit. 55 - 60 feet. We did see a nice boat at 63 feet bit eventually decided it was too restricting at 63 feet and decided not to go and look at it. 

Reverse layout, rear galley not rear saloon though if a great boat comes along with rear saloon we'd consider it. No traditional layouts. So from aft it's galley, saloon, bathroom and bedroom. I have seen some with rear galley and forward saloon. That doesn't really work to me.

Budget. I started looking online a year or 2 ago. Not to buy at that stage but to get an idea. Back then I felt that 55k - 60k should buy a nice boat, late model, well maintained, reputable engine with low hours. Now I suspect that it will be at least 10k more than that and if necessary we'll go to that.

For that sort of money we'd like to see some good extras. Those include washing machine, nice tv, solid fuel heater, solar panels, cratch cover, good motor with low hours, good capacity inverter and so on. We won't of course get all of this but some would be nice. Some form of dining, perhaps a dinette though open plan if necessary, we can always add a table and chairs.

Ideally a cross bed would be great but inline is ok, we've used both. But if we had a choice a cross bed. Walk through bathroom would be nice with a good quality shower. Preference is composting toilet but I think that's as good as impossible. We'll be stuck with whatever toilet we get though we'd prefer not to have a pump out. We've gone through the blocked pump out scenario. 

And we love our duck doors. Well side doors but we feed the ducks from them so they're duck doors to us.

So like you Markinaboat we haven't seen many that tick our very fussy box.

Good luck with your offer by the way.

Our boat (which is emphatically not for sale) has all of the above plus a full size bath, six side doors and a front deck which could take a pool table.

But I set out to buy a 57' boat, wanted to avoid a trad stern (I have some mobility issues) and anything with potential resale difficulties.

I am genuinely not an idiot but nonetheless I ended up with an Orion tug which is a 70' trad with the engine cocooned in the bathroom. I was at a broker (Rugby boat sales) looking at another boat when I saw it, wouldn't have dreamed of traveling to see it.

So those who say "the boat will pick you" are sometimes correct if you give it the opportunity.

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Frahkn I think you will be hard pushed to find a boat with all those specific requirements or even most of them. Even if you lived over here I think you would be hard pushed. Like many who buy second hand boats you have to be prepared to compromise a bit otherwise your chances of finding a boat will be minimal. The boat we ended up buying didn't satisfy all our requirements but we've managed to live happily with the parts we compromised on for the 4 years since we bought it, and that's as a live aboard too.

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I have always admired the stern deck layout of Napton Narrowboats' hire boats, which incorporates (what looks like) comfortable seating just ahead of the steerer. They do retire and sell boats from their fleet from time to time, in fact I see that they have just sold one. Perhaps it is worth contacting them to see if they have any others coming up.

Other hire fleets may have the same stern deck configuration, I am not sure.

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23 hours ago, LadyG said:

If I were you I would home in on the top brokers, those who only have good boats eg ABNB, and Rugbyboats [pro videos], you pay a premium, [you likely won't get a big discount], but its not much in the big scheme of things. 

Buying anything at distance means you need to have faith in the seller. I've bought a few used cars and a couple of motorcycles like this, the cars I've then gone to collect, the bikes have arrived on my drive in a van. I've made sure my deposit was refundable, which has not been an issue, and paid the balance once I'd seen the vehicle: I have not been disappointed. A boat is a bit more bespoke and is a lot about 'feel', but I'd say Lady G has it about right - I'd even have suggested the same brokers!  My own boat was bought through ABNB, I still negotiated the right price and I found them honest, their literature is pretty good and they were easy to deal with. Whoever you chose, put yourself on the hands of a good broker would be my advice.

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Semi trad stern: I'm with you on this but:

the detailing can significantly affect whether or not it is anywhere near comfortable to sit. The basic problem is the tumblehome of the cab sides which means that you start from an inward leaning side. Some builders add strengthening to the top edge so that when you sit on the locker (most semi trads have these both sides) there is a very uncomfortable edge sticking right into your neck! There are other ways of building which work but you are very unlikely to be able to assess the 'comfort' factor without physically trying it out.

You can, of course, hope to sit on a chair on the trad stern deck but this is likely to take up most of the space and you will need to assess the safety aspects of this.

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1 hour ago, Grassman said:

 

Frahkn I think you will be hard pushed to find a boat with all those specific requirements or even most of them. Even if you lived over here I think you would be hard pushed. Like many who buy second hand boats you have to be prepared to compromise a bit otherwise your chances of finding a boat will be minimal. The boat we ended up buying didn't satisfy all our requirements but we've managed to live happily with the parts we compromised on for the 4 years since we bought it, and that's as a live aboard too.

That's OK, I already have a boat, don't really want a second.:)

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On 17/11/2017 at 09:28, PeterCr said:

Hi all, as I've indicated elsewhere we are looking for a boat to buy. 

I've never bought a boat and am no expert, though I have hired regularly so know some basics.

And sadly I don't live in the UK so can't look at dozens of boats to get some experience looking at boats for sale.

So I'm wondering if I could get some tips on the important things I should be checking when looking at a potential boat for purchase.

Obviously it depends on the boat and I don't have one in mind. But if anyone has any great tips on what to look at/for, it would be much appreciated.

I plan on making a spreadsheet of every single thing that I should be checking, and then apply that list to the particulars of the boat I am looking at.

Not just what to look at but what to look for as well. So not just, for example, to check the weedhatch, but what do I look for when I check the weedhatch.

All tips gratefully received with thanks.

I'm in the same boat (sorry) as you - living in Australia but eventually looking to retire back to the UK (canals as a CC'er).  Similarly I've done a fair bit of hiring over the years but not recently.  To date I've spent about a year planning things out (I'm in no rush), and I've found this hallowed forum to be an excellent source of knowledge and help.

I think the best advice I could give - and it's difficult cos I don't actually have a boat yet, is to keep an open mind and prepare to be educated.  I will almost certainly go down the route of my own new build but only after a couple of years in a second hand one to iron out my own likes and dislikes and most importantly my priorities.  At this point in time I'm focusing on the electrics/power as being my main priority and planning/building around that.  This is also probably the area that has changed most since my hiring days with solar/inverters and all that much more 'developed' than the old days.

What I would love to get my hands on would be a build plan from one of the reputable builders as I’m sure this would give loads of goodies and pointers that I haven’t even thought of.  Now I'm very lucky in that my sister lives in the UK and is driving around looking at things for me and skyping videos to me (like from Crick this year).  To be honest this is invaluable – but probably doesn’t help you - sorry  

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We bought our first narrow boat earlier in the year with some fixed views of what we wanted - go anywhere 55-58ft, reverse layout, cassette toilet. Lost our first choice by delaying one day. A month later we met our perfect boat - 63ft (cant go everywhere), normal layout, pumpout. What we were aiming at totally turned on its head. Cant see how we would like anything other than the living area at the front. Great to be able to see out and use the cratch (with a good cover) as our conservatory in winter. I know it is personal choice. Rental boats dont tend to have conservatories at the front. When we first saw it, we just said "love at first sight - but its not what we were planning to buy - sod it - lets buy it". 6 months on and we are loving it.

You risk not seeing your perfect boat if you stick too rigidly to your current requirements. It is a sellers market and good boats are going very quickly. I am sure you will find some help from the forum. I too would have paid for someone to help (for although we knew ocean sailing boats well - we were new to the canals) so I think there would be an opening for some aspiring expert to set up a buyers support company if the insurance aspect was not an issue - but I am sure it is which is likely why they dont exist.

We have a cruiser stern and use a nice comfortable bar stool for the helm to sit on. No need for permanent seating.

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After owning 4 boats and emigrating to Oz we decided to buy another. Looking with rose tinted glasses from Oz we 'missed' loads. We finaly bought on a trip over . The boat we bought looked fabulous in photos and had a great survey current coc etc

when we arrived and docked her I knew we had issues to contend with resulting in a coc failure 24 feet of refooting. The boat was lethal in terms of heating , electrics and gas.

A massive price adjustment followed.

we arranged repairs and set about making her safe. I did hours of work to save money having had 3 old boats before.

on paper good broker good survey certificate etc. In practice a dangerous liability at the point of sale.

Its not worth the risk you need to stare the boat in the face.

6 years later we still love her, and miss her when we are here.

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Our boat (which is emphatically not for sale) has all of the above plus a full size bath, six side doors and a front deck which could take a pool table.

Sounds like an ocean liner. :)

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Frahkn I think you will be hard pushed to find a boat with all those specific requirements or even most of them. 

Agree completely and I don't really expect to find the perfect boat with all that. I know we'll always be compromising and I expect that. That's just a wish list of things we like, I doubt we could even get it all buying new!

We have seen a few boats we'd seriously consider, one sold just as we got serious. One we'd look at except that it's registered as 63 feet, though advertised at 61. We ummed and ahhed about that one but decided we do want to see the north and would prefer not to be limited by length. It's also been on the market for quite some time which in this market makes me wonder why. But if we were over there I'd certainly go and look at it.

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The basic problem is the tumblehome of the cab sides which means that you start from an inward leaning side.

Quite, we do understand that and our real preference for a stern would be the semi cruiser I mentioned, we just don't see them for sale. I also have an aging mother in law who might come along from time to time and she really needs good stable seating. So we fully plan to take a look and sit on the seats on a semi trad to see what they are like. Also some seats are too low to see over the roof which is another issue again! We'll certainly consider a cruiser stern, but not a trad. The mother in law would fall overboard.

Mind you perhaps if there was no seating the mother in law wouldn't come!

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We have a cruiser stern and use a nice comfortable bar stool for the helm to sit on

Yes we spent an evening with a South African couple on their boat and they had steel bar type chairs on the deck. We've kept this in the back of the mind in case we do end up with a cruiser stern with no seating. Not ideal but a good compromise for seating.

Most annoying though. Those South Africans had their first narrowboating holiday ever, a weeks hire. They liked it and decided they liked reverse layout boats. The next week at home they saw a lovely reverse layout cruiser stern 57 footer on Appollo Duck, flew back and bought it and have just spent all of this summer on the cut, where we met them. Only boat I've seen with a clothes dryer as well as a washing machine.

From narrowboat newbies to owners in 2 weeks with a beautiful boat! Different market then though.

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6 years later we still love her, and miss her when we are here.

Hope we feel the same in 6 years!

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1 hour ago, rusty69 said:

If you want your bottom surveyed, or even touched up Laurie, I can put you in touch with a specialist.

I was chatting to a chap the other day who was telling me that he had to have a prostate exam by a specialist. There were two students in attendance and the specialist asked if he’d mind them also examining him for experience. He figured “Well, I’m here now...” and agreed. Afterwards all three of them thanked him. He said to me “Well, I’ve been thanked for some things in my time...”

  • Haha 1
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