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What do I look for when buying?


PeterCr

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Hi all, as I've indicated elsewhere we are looking for a boat to buy. 

I've never bought a boat and am no expert, though I have hired regularly so know some basics.

And sadly I don't live in the UK so can't look at dozens of boats to get some experience looking at boats for sale.

So I'm wondering if I could get some tips on the important things I should be checking when looking at a potential boat for purchase.

Obviously it depends on the boat and I don't have one in mind. But if anyone has any great tips on what to look at/for, it would be much appreciated.

I plan on making a spreadsheet of every single thing that I should be checking, and then apply that list to the particulars of the boat I am looking at.

Not just what to look at but what to look for as well. So not just, for example, to check the weedhatch, but what do I look for when I check the weedhatch.

All tips gratefully received with thanks.

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18 minutes ago, PeterCr said:

Hi all, as I've indicated elsewhere we are looking for a boat to buy. 

I plan on making a spreadsheet of every single thing that I should be checking, and then apply that list to the particulars of the boat I am looking at.

I would start your spreadsheet with the things that are important to you (rather than other people) such as age, materials of construction, hull dimensions / area you wish to use the boat, engine preferences, layout preferences e.t.c.. I would then suggest you use a website such as Apollo Duck to refine your preferences and see the styles that appeal.

Buying a boat often involves emotion, something that a spreadsheet might struggle with (my work life is dominated by spreadsheets and I appreciate they can be a bit of fun !!)

Good luck :captain: 

edit = in my experience the best boats on the canals have no weedhatch.

Edited by pete harrison
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On 16/11/2017 at 23:28, PeterCr said:

Hi all, as I've indicated elsewhere we are looking for a boat to buy. 

I've never bought a boat and am no expert, though I have hired regularly so know some basics.

And sadly I don't live in the UK so can't look at dozens of boats to get some experience looking at boats for sale.

So I'm wondering if I could get some tips on the important things I should be checking when looking at a potential boat for purchase.

Obviously it depends on the boat and I don't have one in mind. But if anyone has any great tips on what to look at/for, it would be much appreciated.

I plan on making a spreadsheet of every single thing that I should be checking, and then apply that list to the particulars of the boat I am looking at.

Not just what to look at but what to look for as well. So not just, for example, to check the weedhatch, but what do I look for when I check the weedhatch.

All tips gratefully received with thanks.

 

Yes make a spreadsheet this is a great idea.

Once you've made it, look at loads of boats regardless of whether they fit your model of your ideal boat, or not. 

Then throw the spreadsheet away and buy the boat you really really like. It won't tick ANY of your boxes, I predict ;) 

Edited by Mike the Boilerman
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I would start with a list of your must haves, then rate these against "what if it doesn't have this" to determine if they really are must haves. You will then have some basics to start your search.

On our list was a fixed double bed, room for two children to sleep and a preference for a trad stern but we still looked at other boats that didn't have all of these.

You could make a massive list of things to look at but general appearance and the right feel go a long way in the decision making.

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Spreadsheets  don't work.

We have owned boats for 30+years, (lumpy water and canal) and when we decided to buy another NB it was 'fully specified' we knew exactly what we wanted, with the 'must have' criteria being:

57 feet, Cruiser Stern, Dinette.

We set off with a carrier bag (Aldi) full of cash and said 'we are going to buy a boat today', and, at the 3rd marina we did just that. It was a perfect match for our specification, except that it was :

45 feet, Trad-Stern and had no Dinette, otherwise it was a 'perfect fit'- but it called to us, was well maintained, quite 'young' and just what we wanted.

Offer put in, Owner accepted, they came down to the marina to clear off the last of their personal stuff, I paid cash, wife drove car home, I drove the boat.

Wife got a lift back and met me the next day, we then got stuck in the floods with the river closed for 2 weeks, virtually no food and very few clothes, but we did manage to get a bus into the nearest town and get supplies.

 

Buying a boat can be made as difficult (or as simple) as you want it to be.

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On 17/11/2017 at 09:56, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Buying a boat can be made as difficult (or as simple) as you want it to be.

 

Agreed.

There is however, another effect that takes one by surprise when the hunt for the right boat calling you turns out to be long and difficult. Every weekend for six months we used to drive up to the midlands to look at boats, using the evenings during the week to plan and arrange which boats to view. When we finally bought one, it was a bit of a wrench not needing to spend all our spare time browsing boats for sale, and the weekends suddenly felt empty until we were able to use the boat (two week delay getting it then frozen in for a month!)

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An impossible question but a few tips.

DO NOT limit yourself to an age. I have seen/been on/owned boats of varying age and age rarely equates to condition.

Do not limit your self to a particular stern ( If we are talking narrowboats? ) having lived on all types they all have good and bad and it doesn't matter so not worth limiting your search.

Many things are completely down to personal preference and you will not realy know what those are until you try them out.

If you  going to live aboard think how you will be generating your electricity, it is an often overlooked yet very major consideration. For instance do you want an antique lister in an engine room or do you want modern diesel? the realities of life aboard and producing leccy on these two for instance is way way different.

Layouts there are many and don't discount any type.

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On 17/11/2017 at 10:11, mrsmelly said:

If you  going to live aboard think how you will be generating your electricity, it is an often overlooked yet very major consideration.

 

Well worth repeating, this. Wise words.

Generating and storing electricity sufficiently can easily come to dominate your life, while you learn how to get it right as an off grid liveaboard. Not to be underestimated or trivialised. 

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I infer from your comments that your are looking for a second hand boat - a new one takes a lot longer as they are almost all 'off the shelf' with just a few spec build boats that some builders do to fill in vacant slot or to help get their name around.

Apart from the multi-function list which you will inevitable build up - and probably miss out something you later realise ought to have been there - you will need to think about how quickly you want to be 'on the water'. As Alan has just said, you can find something that you just move onto and get going. However, that may also be a function of your budget and with a used boat it is highly likely that there will be some things that need doing or items you really want but happen to be missing on the boat that you fall in love with. (Note - for most people who stay boating long term, whether or not liveaboard, this will be a relationship, one either of love or hate!)

So one important factor will be to assess just how much you are prepared to do, or have the budget to get someone else to do. One you are on board and itching to get boating, fixing things will become more of a burden than a joy - at least for most of us. (Some of us just hate having to forgo a morning's cruising just to polish the cab sides!)

The age of the boat may perhaps be a more significant factor than you would imagine from a tick list approach. Apart from saying something about how likely it is that various items mat be approaching the end of their expected life, it will also say something about how well the fit out uses up to date technology. Perhaps one area where this is important is in electrics which are changing all the time. If you are expecting to be on board and not moving for more than a day at a time you may well be drawn to solar panels but these are relatively new and even where fitted may well be dated technology in terms not just of cost but also efficiency.

Your list will almost certainly focus on the positive things like does it have a tv, stove, etc etc but do not be tempted to overlook anything to do with safety. Does it have smoke and CO detectors and are they sufficient? Is he electric wiring safe and the gas lines up to spec? But also look outside: how easy will it be to get back on when you fall off - or can someone help you back eg does it have proper steps and a place for a safety ladder?

We bought a new boat which was delivered this Spring and we have had 7 months really testing it! (not aboard all the time but over 1000 miles) and we are still finding things that we could have put into the spec. If it is hard with a new build - where you can, subject to cost and space, add pretty much any idea you want - just imagine how much harder with a used boat where you will definitely not get everything on your list.

At the end of all the rational process, I agree entirely with Alan - it will end up being the boat that you walk onto and say, "That's it!"

Best of luck and do keep us posted on how it goes. I'm sure all here will hope to meet you sometime on the water.

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In my limited experience you never find the "right" boat - it finds you!

When it finds you, you'll know. You won't have to ask us or anyone else.

Tis a bit like finding a lover - all your planning goes straight out of the window - you just KNOW its what you want!

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On 11/17/2017 at 12:55, Mike the Boilerman said:

look at loads of boats regardless

Sadly not so easy, I think I mentioned that I don't live in the UK. In fact we live in Australia but have hired enough to know we'd like to buy now we are retiring. So visiting lots of boats is out of the question. If I find one that really appeals (from the photos online) then I'll have to fly over to see it. So I might only see one boat.

Quote

Do not limit your self to a particular stern

We already have pretty firm ideas about what we're looking for, it's a reverse layout narrowboat. In fact I've already got a spreadsheet of things we'd like in a boat. And we are limiting ourselves partly to a stern type as we don't like trad sterns. My wife likes to sit when cruising, and a trad stern really limits that, especially with more than one passenger. Shame as there seems to be plenty of trads about and at better prices.

The question was more about what I should look at once I've found one I like. So to start at the stern and work forward looking at specifics of engine, batteries, alternators etc etc right from one end to the other. Because if I find a boat we like I've still got to make sure it's worth making an offer and getting a survey, it might look great internally but if the engine is clagged, for instance, it's still not a good buy.

I know a survey should pick that stuff up but if there's anything that I can do to rule a boat in or out beforehand, from a technical perspective, I'd rather know how to find it. If I do organise a survey I'd like to be pretty sure it's a good boat first as I'd have to fly over a second time to be at the survey and take the boat over. So better not to do all that just to be told by the surveyor it's a dud.

Mind you I'm really beginning to wonder if it's realistic to buy a boat from over here. I know plenty have done it but in the current market I don't know if it's doable. I might fly all the way over there and it's sold already! 

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It might be worth finding someone you trust and knows boats in the UK and use them as a proxy to see the boats in the flesh.

Not ideal but I would suggest much better than buying unseen. 

There may be someone on the forum who could offer this as a paid for service

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7 hours ago, PeterCr said:

Sadly not so easy, I think I mentioned that I don't live in the UK. In fact we live in Australia but have hired enough to know we'd like to buy now we are retiring. So visiting lots of boats is out of the question. If I find one that really appeals (from the photos online) then I'll have to fly over to see it. So I might only see one boat.

We already have pretty firm ideas about what we're looking for, it's a reverse layout narrowboat. In fact I've already got a spreadsheet of things we'd like in a boat. And we are limiting ourselves partly to a stern type as we don't like trad sterns. My wife likes to sit when cruising, and a trad stern really limits that, especially with more than one passenger. Shame as there seems to be plenty of trads about and at better prices.

 

I was a very experienced hirer and had followed that with 11 years of shared ownership. I started my search with "pretty firm ideas of what I was looking for" but that did not prevent me ending up with something outside my original comfort zone.

I had heard such stories and more or less dismissed them as involving people who were unable to make their minds up in the first place - I was amazed even as I handed my money over!

Why not spend a week over here (a decent budget hotel will not cost 1% of the price of a boat), go to some large brokerages, see lots of boats (particularly those outside your box). I'm not suggesting that you buy from there but that you start your search where there are a lot of boats.

 

Edited by frahkn
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4 hours ago, tree monkey said:

It might be worth finding someone you trust and knows boats in the UK and use them as a proxy to see the boats in the flesh.

Not ideal but I would suggest much better than buying unseen. 

There may be someone on the forum who could offer this as a paid for service

Didn't someone on here use to do that.

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9 hours ago, PeterCr said:

Sadly not so easy, I think I mentioned that I don't live in the UK. In fact we live in Australia but have hired enough to know we'd like to buy now we are retiring. So visiting lots of boats is out of the question. If I find one that really appeals (from the photos online) then I'll have to fly over to see it. So I might only see one boat.

 

If you are going to invest in a trip round the world, don't wait until you find the boat you want on t'internet.  

I suggest you make a list of potential locations where there are boats for sale and plan a week's road trip to see what is actually on offer when you arrive.  There are so many boats out there it is likely you will fall in love with several of them before the week is out.  Coming all that way to view one boat will likely just lead to disappointment.

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On 11/19/2017 at 01:30, tree monkey said:

It might be worth finding someone you trust and knows boats in the UK and use them as a proxy to see the boats in the flesh.

Not ideal but I would suggest much better than buying unseen. 

There may be someone on the forum who could offer this as a paid for service

Yes I have asked Matty about this in the past but it looks like he's not doing this any more, which is a real shame as I'd love to find someone over there who really knows his stuff who could help out. And there's got to be more people than me who are trying to buy boats from overseas, given how many non UK owners I meet when hiring. Narrowboating is so unique to the UK that anyone interested in narrowboating from anywhere in the world has to buy in the UK.

A year or 2 back I was reading the newsletter of a boat owner over there, who seemed to know quite a bit about it. I wrote to him suggesting that he start up a buyers advocacy service but he wasn't interested. A bit like we have over here, and you probably have over there, for real estate buyers. An expert who knows the market and acts on behalf of buyers instead of agents who act on behalf of sellers. I think there's a business in that, but the guy I suggested it to wasn't interested.

Perhaps a week over there might be a good idea. Probably longer though to get to the major brokerages. If I'm going around visiting major brokerages there's a lot of ground to cover. The first 1 or 2 days are usually spent recovering from jet lag!

 

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Apologies if I've missed this above, but why not send your specific requirements to every single broker over here, maybe include photos of boats and their interiors that you have seen (not necessarily for sale but just images online)?

I've been looking for quite some time now and there aren't many boats that tick my very fussy box! In saying that, I have see one at the boat supermarket and made an offer subject to receiving answers to questions.

Why don't you tell us your budget/preferred spend, length, type (semi/cruiser/trad), engine room or not, layout and perhaps types of timber/fitout that appeals to you. I've seen so many something may come to mind.

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From your internet search I think you need to draw up a fairly substantial list of possible purchases, as many as you would have the time to go and view, because when we were searching we found quite a few boats which looked great from the photos, but were anything but when we actually saw them. I agree with the others in that if you could fine somebody here who knows their way round a boat who could check out some for you, that would be your best bet.

Another issue you may have is that recently boats are selling quickly. I know of a few that have sold the same day they were first advertised. So if you have the time I would recommend you come over here for at least a couple of weeks.

If you are able to arrange a flight at fairly short notice after you see a boat that looks to be the one, perhaps it may be worth asking the brokers if you can leave a small refundable deposit just to hold it until you can get there to view it. A kind of 'expression of interest' deposit to show them you are serious. I've always found most brokers to be very fair and accommodating so it might be worth trying. 

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If I were you I would home in on the top brokers, those who only have good boats eg ABNB, and Rugbyboats [pro videos], you pay a premium, [you likely won't get a big discount], but its not much in the big scheme of things. 

Edited by LadyG
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