Help with this location please

[IanM]

The sink brackets look shocked!

[pete harrison]

2 hours ago, alan_fincher said:

Well I wasn't going to challenge Pete's numbers, because he specifically said "when I was working", but I feel sure that atr one stage Union Canal Carriers were operating more than 4 pairs simultaneously.......

Ant & Axe

Bexhill & Brighton

Birmingham & Balham

Kimberley & Puppis

Petrel & Moon

The single motors, I saw less often down our way, and I'm struggling a bit with names , but again I would say more than 4 of them

Bainton, Bilster, Eileen, Edgware & (I think!) Hawkesbury.

I think at least 15 boats in use simultaneously, though obviously two of the boats were conversions to motors, (Ant &&  Eileen).

Clearly by far the largest of the camping boat operators.

I came to the canals of Birmingham when I was a bout 10 years old (possibly 8 years old - it was a  long time ago !). I think I was 15 (1978) the first time I got as far as Braunston and I recall most of those listed above as camping boats - with the addition of WIDGEON and ALPERTON (Gary Ward).

By the time I was working this fleet was reduced to:

BEXHILL and BRIGHTON ('Coco')

EDGWARE and BAKEWELL (Andy Farquarson)

PETREL and MOON (Helen Smith)

BAINTON and BERKHAMPSTEAD (Roger 'The Vicar' - sub-contractor)

CALLISTO and ARA (Frank Batten - sub-contractor following sale of BEXHILL and BRIGHTON in 1983)

LINDSAY (self steer)

KIMBERLEY (self steer)

HEYFORD (self steer - modern hull)

LAUGHTON (self steer - modern hull)

 

Edited November 17, 2017 by pete harrison

[pete harrison]

I think the exOvaltine motor HARRY also worked as a camping boat, owned by Peter Shrubshall trading as the Boat and Butty Company, Runcorn - but I do not recall ever seeing it.

In more recent times (late 1990's and early 2000's) WHITBY and PICTOR / BANSTEAD and METEOR have also worked as camping boats.

It appears to me that there is the makings of a book here 

[alan_fincher]

20 minutes ago, pete harrison said:

I came to the canals of Birmingham when I was a bout 10 years old (possibly 8 years old - it was a  long time ago !). I think I was 15 (1978) the first time I got as far as Braunston and I recall most of those listed above as camping boats - with the addition of WIDGEON and ALPERTON (Gary Ward).

By the time I was working this fleet was reduced to:

BEXHILL and BRIGHTON ('Coco')

EDGWARE and BAKEWELL (Andy Farquarson)

PETREL and MOON (Helen Smith)

BAINTON and BERKHAMPSTEAD (Roger 'The Vicar' - sub-contractor)

CALLISTO and ARA (Frank Batten - sub-contractor following sale of BEXHILL and BRIGHTON in 1983)

LINDSAY (self steer)

KIMBERLEY (self steer)

HEYFORD (self steer - modern hull)

LAUGHTON (self steer - modern hull)

 

I think Widgeon & Alperton were there for a while, but it was after I moved away, so never recall seeing them.  Possibly crewed, (and maybe owned?) by one of the Wards, I'm not sure.

Who was "Coco", I wonder - earlier I recall John & Sue Duddington with Bexhill & Brighton.  This is the pair I saw, and photographed most.

Didn't Alec Purcell run one of their pairs for a while - I'm not sure which, though.

[pete harrison]

14 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:

I think Widgeon & Alperton were there for a while, but it was after I moved away, so never recall seeing them.  Possibly crewed, (and maybe owned?) by one of the Wards, I'm not sure.

Who was "Coco", I wonder - earlier I recall John & Sue Duddington with Bexhill & Brighton.  This is the pair I saw, and photographed most.

Didn't Alec Purcell run one of their pairs for a while - I'm not sure which, though.

WIDGEON and ALPERTON were owned by UCC, but crewed by Gary Ward.

I think the real name of 'Coco' was Alan but I can not remember his surname. I do remember he and his partner had a newborn baby with them in the early 1980's. Last I heard he lived in a house in Braunston but I have not seen him since about 1987 when he was boating with Malcolm Burge's GREYHOUND up Perry Bar Locks, Birmingham 

edit = WIDGEON and ALPERTON were sold into private ownership in 1979.

Edited November 17, 2017 by pete harrison

[jake_crew]

With some school chums, we hired Plover from WFB Co at Braunston bottom lock after A levels in '73.

I've just looked at the slides - aaahhhhhh.

Two girls shared the back cabin, with about 8 lads in the hold.

When I can convert them, I'll upload a few pictures if anyone is interested.

[davidg]

55 minutes ago, pete harrison said:

WIDGEON and ALPERTON were owned by UCC, but crewed by Gary Ward.

I think the real name of 'Coco' was Alan but I can not remember his surname. I do remember he and his partner had a newborn baby with them 

Alan & Vivienne Johnson

[David Mack]

4 hours ago, X Alan W said:

I guess the expect ion of modern day holidays would mean the take up of camping boats for a break would be limited to a limited number of "enthusiasts" the folk running the boat would have to have installed a lot of extra 'gismo's than would have been expected/required back in the heyday,a trawl through the specs on hire boats operating today bears out the differences between 1970 & 2017 & camping boats were a more budget holiday so would be more spartan folk today seem to require a better quality of accommodation H&c showers , hair dryer; mobile phone chargers are "gismos that spring to mind

 

When we bought Belfast, which operated as a fully cabined boat for hire to youth groups on a self-steer basis for over 40 years, we were told part of the reason they were giving up was that there was less and less interest from kids, and that the lack of wifi and the absence of anywhere to plug their gizmos in to charge was part of the problem. As a concession to modernity they had added a single cigarette lighter socket in the back cabin for the leaders to recharge a phone,  but the rest of the boat has no sockets whatsoever!

Edited November 17, 2017 by David Mack

[Tam & Di]

Not got too much time to think about who had what immediately, but in the mid 60s-70s when Janesh & Ruth (spelling?) were alive there were John and Sue Duddington, Andy Iddens, Alec Pursell, Geoff Mason ('real' name Godfrey - now has a bookshop in Gent), Gary Ward, Helen and George Smith, Andy Farquarson. I think there were others who elude me presently - Dav & Pen probably remember.

In the late 70s early 80s John Dudd and Geoffrey worked on our barges on the Thames with grain occasionally (Tilbury - Weybridge on the R.Wey - see Di's book), and Andy Farquarson worked a pair of barrel boats for quite a while with us.

John and Ellen subsequently moved to France and traded with a 38m péniche; Helen and George did too a bit later. John Dudd died several years ago, but Helen and George have just now retired and moved back to Braunston. Gary was one of the few boat people who made good money from canal work - setting up Delta Marine, a company building high class Dutch barges.

[Tam & Di]

Probably should be a new thread really. There's a lot of detailed discussion of the boats, but little of the people. Jeanette does a lot for the born-and-bred boat families but my answer above makes me realise that there nothing very much about those who came in as boat builders, boatmen and so on.

[David Mack]

And if I remember rightly, Janusz and Ruth died when an out-of-control lorry crashed into a tearoom at Ironbridge, some time in the 1980s.

[alan_fincher]

5 minutes ago, Tam & Di said:

Probably should be a new thread really. There's a lot of detailed discussion of the boats, but little of the people. Jeanette does a lot for the born-and-bred boat families but my answer above makes me realise that there nothing very much about those who came in as boat builders, boatmen and so on.

And there is of course that transition from the end of regular canal traffics into the world of "leisure boating", where some of the working boat families continued to crew for, or be in otherways employed by the firms that moved off into that direction.

I can certainly remember Ted Ward being employed at Union Canal Carriers in the 1970s, and a couple of ex working boaters at Wyvern Shipping, only one of whom I can still recall the name of, (Joce Harrison).  Clearly some were employed as boatmen like Alec Purcell - they must have found camping boat schedules a lot less demanding than when carrying cargoes, (although it would have allowed him more time in the pubs!).  I understand even Rose Whitlock found some employment with Union Canal Carriers, I believe to include basic training to novice self steer crews.  I wonder what that was like - I could imagine if she wanted to be she could have been quite a daunting trainer!

I don't think any of us latter day enthusiasts realise how indebted we are to the many companies and crews who operated these boats through a period when firms like Malcolm Braine were snapping up old boats right left and centre, and converting them to high grade leisure boats, (often shortened and significantly altered).  The fact that s many boats lived those years as campers, (or as in the case of ours as trip boats), has left us with a much larger stock of largely "un messed around with" hulls that might well otherwise have been lost.

It would be good to see it all better documented, to include the people involved.

[Tam & Di]

27 minutes ago, David Mack said:

And if I remember rightly, Janusz and Ruth died when an out-of-control lorry crashed into a tearoom at Ironbridge, some time in the 1980s.

I knew I'd got the Polish spelling wrong - thanks for the correction. I've still got the sad postcard Judy Vedmore sent me letting me know about it. The card's the one with Helen and George with Moon as a horseboat in a lock.

[alan_fincher]

We have, I admit gone a bit off piste in this thread now, and Tam is probably right that a new one might be worth starting.

I was trying to look for previous ones, and one of the things I note is that Photobucket's decision to not allow users to host their images and display on other sites means that many of the images previously on the forum now can't be viewed.

As a small step towards reinstating some, here are some I have previously put up of Union Canal Carriers boats in the early 1970s.  I might be struggling though, in some cases to say which boat is which!

Bilster, (obviously), which my brother Mike later owned.  Behind, away from tow-path is I think Bexhill, which we hired).  Next to that, possibly Hawkesbury?

 

Taken from Bexhill - possibly Hawkesbury alongside next to tow-path?

(Note: Offside, below the lock, "shortened butty" taken to extremes!)

 

I think Bilster is on the outside here, so they have moved since earlier shot.  On the other boat is ex working boater Ted Ward, I think employed then as a mechanic.

Possibly Petrel & Moon lying as the next pair along?

 

Not at Braunston here.  The thin, long haired, young man steering Bexhill has just typed this caption!

Edited November 17, 2017 by alan_fincher

[pete harrison]

To add to the Union Canal Carriers Ltd. confusion I am pretty sure that several boats that they operated were privately owned even though lettered as U.C.C. Ltd..

My view is that this thread was about camping boats and it still is 

[alan_fincher]

35 minutes ago, Tam & Di said:

I knew I'd got the Polish spelling wrong - thanks for the correction. I've still got the sad postcard Judy Vedmore sent me letting me know about it. The card's the one with Helen and George with Moon as a horseboat in a lock.

 

I think the horse is probably "Patience" that worked for Horse Boat Hotels in Berkhamsted  Incidentally I  am told that the proprietor of that at the time, Mike Baldy, has also died quite recently.

Edited November 17, 2017 by alan_fincher

[X Alan W]

A quote by a person who' name I fail to remember re Rose Whitlock on the self steering camping boat hire tuition " Yom best not make her mad her can chew nails & a spit rust" also trying to remember the guys name who lived on the cabin length butty stern end below Braunston bottom lock Am I right in remembering he was a sort of nightwatchman /security guy for the assembled conglomeration below the lock?

[alan_fincher]

2 minutes ago, X Alan W said:

.................also trying to remember the guys name who lived on the cabin length butty stern end below Braunston bottom lock Am I right in remembering he was a sort of nightwatchman /security guy for the assembled conglomeration below the lock?

I don't know if there was more than one, but at one stage it was "Jimpty"/"Jinty" or something similar, I believe.

2 hours ago, pete harrison said:

To add to the Union Canal Carriers Ltd. confusion I am pretty sure that several boats that they operated were privately owned even though lettered as U.C.C. Ltd.

I seem to recall that my brother's motor "Bilster" was never actually owned by them, but could be wrong.

I recall Janusz telling us when he let us loose with "Bexhill" that "you have there my favourite boat", and thinking perhaps it could have been kept better maintained if it was!

[archie57]

The end of camping boats and Local Authority boats is probably due to Health and Safety, all the form filling etc putting accompanying  staff off the idea, it was getting ridiculous when I finished, and that was over twenty years ago!

[pete harrison]

27 minutes ago, X Alan W said:

 also trying to remember the guys name who lived on the cabin length butty stern end below Braunston bottom lock Am I right in remembering he was a sort of nightwatchman /security guy for the assembled conglomeration below the lock?

 

23 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:

I don't know if there was more than one, but at one stage it was "Jimpty"/"Jinty" or something similar, I believe.

His name was Jim Goldby and the boat was the stern end of the large Ricky NORTON (Willow Wren's SMEW) following its conversion to a pleasure boat in 1968 

[Dav and Pen]

Don’t know his proper name but the man who lived in the old butty back end was called “Ginty” said to be an ex miner. The boat was hard aground on all the ash and other stuff that he threw over board! Great character who spent lot of time in the Nelson. When the glue factory had a big spill of chemical one night the canal turned white and the overflow was near his boat, they had big job getting him awake and out of the boat and he spent couple of days in the local hospital, probably had good bath as well.

The sad death of Ruth and Yanish was 1982, I came home from work (a job I hated) and as I got out of the car was told about their death. Wrote out my resignation and went back to Leicester dumped the car. Yanish hated his job at fords and we had talked about it the Sunday before.

ted ward was an ace with pd2 and kept our campers going for years, didn’t ask where he got the parts.

sorry to get sidetracked

[pete harrison]

38 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:

I recall Janusz telling us when he let us loose with "Bexhill" that "you have there my favourite boat", and thinking perhaps it could have been kept better maintained if it was!

I think BEXHILL was his first and had been acquired as early as 1964, hence probably his favourite   

[archie57]

Didn't the "Bexhill" still have the gear change lever on the footboard when it had the PD2?

[Dav and Pen]

I am slowly transferring slides onto computer and so far have these shots of campers. Andy F and Harvey are on Tadworth leaving Braunston at start of the season. Alton has the low cratch because we ran on the T and M and at that time there was a girder under Barton turn bridge reticting height.

[alan_fincher]

26 minutes ago, archie57 said:

Didn't the "Bexhill" still have the gear change lever on the footboard when it had the PD2?

It did when we hired it, and it was fairly horrible!

No a great photo, but it can clearly be seen here....

I recall it as much like what Rufford was fitted with when that was for sale a couple of years back - also quite horrible!

(In the photo the late John Duddington is steering, and Sue Duddington is stood behind the top balance beam of the gate)

Edited November 17, 2017 by alan_fincher