Bod Posted November 20, 2017 Report Share Posted November 20, 2017 1 minute ago, mrsmelly said: Funnily enough experiments by the military especialy in the USA have been ongoing for many years re this matter. The military needed larger helicopters to move large equipment and many personel and no internal combustion type engines in build were powerful enough for the job. The problem was solved by the top brains from NASA and the Chinook helicopter was born. Powered by no one but two eco fans with a large propeller at each end of the aircraft. Sat at each end under the eco fan is a crew member with a lighted candle producing the required heat source. Early problems were caused by using candles too large for the job and small household candles were eventualy found best for the job otherwise the helicopters used to climb too high and orbit the earth. Interesting, late father in law, was on the design team that put 3 engines into the Merlin helicopter. Bod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrsmelly Posted November 20, 2017 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2017 4 minutes ago, Bod said: Interesting, late father in law, was on the design team that put 3 engines into the Merlin helicopter. Bod Its a small world innit. Did they harness the eco fan motor power or did they need three engines rather than two as they used less powerful internal combustion engines? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bod Posted November 20, 2017 Report Share Posted November 20, 2017 Politics at the time dictated the engine that had to be used, 2 were needed to fly the thing, but left no excess power in case of emergency. Hence 3 engines. Bod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cereal tiller Posted November 20, 2017 Report Share Posted November 20, 2017 7 minutes ago, mrsmelly said: Funnily enough experiments by the military especialy in the USA have been ongoing for many years re this matter. The military needed larger helicopters to move large equipment and many personel and no internal combustion type engines in build were powerful enough for the job. The problem was solved by the top brains from NASA and the Chinook helicopter was born. Powered by not one but two eco fans with a large propeller at each end of the aircraft. Sat at each end under the eco fan is a crew member with a lighted candle producing the required heat source. Early problems were caused by using candles too large for the job and small household candles were eventualy found best for the job otherwise the helicopters used to climb too high and orbit the earth. Would be likely that the Sliding Doors could be partly opened or closed to adjust Altitude? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrsmelly Posted November 20, 2017 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2017 11 minutes ago, cereal tiller said: Would be likely that the Sliding Doors could be partly opened or closed to adjust Altitude? This was considered but I think discounted due to the chance of " Blow out " occurring of one or both candles with obviously dire consequences although on early prototype aircraft Honda eu20i gennies were kept onboard to supplement the solar panel back up engines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nb Innisfree Posted November 20, 2017 Report Share Posted November 20, 2017 5 minutes ago, mrsmelly said: This was considered but I think discounted due to the chance of " Blow out " occurring of one or both candles with obviously dire consequences although on early prototype aircraft Honda eu20i gennies were kept onboard to supplement the solar panel back up engines. On tickover I assume 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cereal tiller Posted November 20, 2017 Report Share Posted November 20, 2017 2 minutes ago, mrsmelly said: This was considered but I think discounted due to the chance of " Blow out " occurring of one or both candles with obviously dire consequences although on early prototype aircraft Honda eu20i gennies were kept onboard to supplement the solar panel back up engines. Have heard of Fighter Jets having problems when a "Flame out" occurred ,amazing that I never knew about Choppers having similar issues. They would have Refuelled the eu20i's in the Winch Cradle thingy I hope, you know ,for Safety reasons? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrsmelly Posted November 20, 2017 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2017 8 minutes ago, cereal tiller said: Have heard of Fighter Jets having problems when a "Flame out" occurred ,amazing that I never knew about Choppers having similar issues. They would have Refuelled the eu20i's in the Winch Cradle thingy I hope, you know ,for Safety reasons? Due to " secrecy laws " data is not available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark99 Posted November 21, 2017 Report Share Posted November 21, 2017 (edited) 14 hours ago, mross said: Has anyone got a wind speed meter (anemometer) - they could measure the wind speed directly in front and use that to calculate the volumetric flow. The CFM figures are probably taken that way. Take them ten feet away and you'll get almost zero. 10 feet away I would be sitting in the cratch outside the front door. 13 hours ago, system 4-50 said: There definitely are strata in air. Why only the other day I found a small dinosaur bone floating near the floor. "While the physics are relatively complex, air stratification is a basic layering effect that allows large air pockets with different core temperatures to remain intact, regardless of whether the building's central HVAC system is running" If you had the Stirling Engine going the bone may have been rotating so fast you would not have noticed it. Still no credible answer from the wider crew why 3m3/min of air circulating does not help even out temps in front of stove. But lots of avoidance and random opinions. Edited November 21, 2017 by mark99 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mross Posted November 21, 2017 Report Share Posted November 21, 2017 Because we don't accept that these fans actually move that much. You are taking it on trust. Can you find any independent tests? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark99 Posted November 21, 2017 Report Share Posted November 21, 2017 (edited) I researched these units (Sterling) before I bought one and one of the sources of real world use I used was this site and came to the initial conclusion after hearing the collective dismissal in here that they do not work. But I bought one because I fancied it as an ornament (open crankshaft etc) with the side benefit of an indicator of when the fuel needs topping up. In use however I find on my boat it mixes the temp in front of stove so the bonus is "it works" in my small saloon. Hence I came from a position of non believer to one who accepts there is a small scale benefit in some cases. Edited November 21, 2017 by mark99 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mross Posted November 21, 2017 Report Share Posted November 21, 2017 Mark, I disagree but I respect your opinion. Out of interest, what is the make and model number of your stove? I too have a Stirling but concluded that it did nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark99 Posted November 21, 2017 Report Share Posted November 21, 2017 Thank you. It's an Acorn radiant stove that sits in a corner in middle of boat. Poss 4.5kW. The vid below does show some air moverment off a fan. My scientic instrument is Mrs 99's elbow. There is non such a more temperature sensitive person in the world. With the fan on my ribs are less bruised. She was the one who started noticing her feet were always warm when fan on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sea Dog Posted November 21, 2017 Report Share Posted November 21, 2017 2 minutes ago, mross said: Mark, I disagree but I respect your opinion. Just noticed your new avatar. When did you turn into a blue faced Mr Angry? I didn't have you down as one of those, and it doesn't really go with the 'respect' sentiment above. Just sayin'... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mross Posted November 21, 2017 Report Share Posted November 21, 2017 I wanted a proper avatar, rather than a photo. But, I agree, it needs changing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sea Dog Posted November 21, 2017 Report Share Posted November 21, 2017 2 minutes ago, mark99 said: The vid below does show some air moverment off a fan. Dunno whether it will convince many about the fan, but I reckon the wood they're burning could have done with being dried for a bit longer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mross Posted November 21, 2017 Report Share Posted November 21, 2017 8 minutes ago, mark99 said: Thank you. It's an Acorn radiant stove that sits in a corner in middle of boat. Poss 4.5kW. The vid below does show some air moverment off a fan. My scientic instrument is Mrs 99's elbow. There is non such a more temperature sensitive person in the world. With the fan on my ribs are less bruised. She was the one who started noticing her feet were always warm when fan on. But, as I pointed out when I posted this same video, it's all in close up. You can't see what happens further away from the fan. Presumably because it does not show what they would like it to! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mross Posted November 21, 2017 Report Share Posted November 21, 2017 18 minutes ago, mark99 said: The vid below does show some air moverment off a fan Quote Yes, but only six inches from the fan. What happens further away? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mross Posted November 21, 2017 Report Share Posted November 21, 2017 13 hours ago, mrsmelly said:I think you are right Marc in that we dont understand the power of a fan that is actually needed to improve thermal comfort. 13 hours ago, mross said: This sounds like the argument creationists use. Mrsmelly, I think I misinterpreted this! I thought I was quoting Mark99. My apologies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Bob Posted November 21, 2017 Report Share Posted November 21, 2017 (edited) 22 minutes ago, mross said: 13 hours ago, mrsmelly said:I think you are right Marc in that we dont understand the power of a fan that is actually needed to improve thermal comfort. Mrsmelly, I think I misinterpreted this! I thought I was quoting Mark99. My apologies. Nope, it was me who made that quote. Too big a fan causes a draught that will feel cold. No fan and your feet get cold. A gentle fan to disrupt the air is needed but how powerful is that? edit Mross is it your radiant stove? Edited November 21, 2017 by Dr Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cereal tiller Posted November 21, 2017 Report Share Posted November 21, 2017 1 hour ago, mross said: But, as I pointed out when I posted this same video, it's all in close up. You can't see what happens further away from the fan. Presumably because it does not show what they would like it to! Would guess that if the Camera pulled back a Yard or two it would have shown a few Ecofan Sales personnel who were a Teensy bit Stoned? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rusty69 Posted November 21, 2017 Report Share Posted November 21, 2017 5 minutes ago, cereal tiller said: Would guess that if the Camera pulled back a Yard or two it would have shown a few Ecofan Sales personnel who were a Teensy bit Stoned? ................And holding a big electric fan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mross Posted November 21, 2017 Report Share Posted November 21, 2017 37 minutes ago, Dr Bob said: Mross is it your radiant stove? no Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machpoint005 Posted November 21, 2017 Report Share Posted November 21, 2017 40 minutes ago, Dr Bob said: Nope, it was me who made that quote. Too big a fan causes a draught that will feel cold. No fan and your feet get cold. A gentle fan to disrupt the air is needed but how powerful is that? edit Mross is it your radiant stove? This is getting very silly. A gentle draught makes you feel warmer, but a stronger draught makes you feel colder? Is the air at the same temperature in both cases? There's a lot of placebo getting mixed in somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Bob Posted November 21, 2017 Report Share Posted November 21, 2017 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Machpoint005 said: This is getting very silly. A gentle draught makes you feel warmer, but a stronger draught makes you feel colder? Is the air at the same temperature in both cases? There's a lot of placebo getting mixed in somewhere. Machpoint, you have got it wrong again. Of course it feels colder the higher the air flow at constant temperature. Do you ever watch the TV weather forecasts? The higher airflow takes heat away from the body (when less than 38dec ish) so you feel colder. It's called 'wind chill'. At no flow there is stratification so the floor is much colder than at 3-6 ft off the ground. A slight air movement to disrupt the stratification will make the temperature more uniform hence my comment of warmer. More than 'slight'movement and they you have the cooling draught. Simple, isnt it? 23 minutes ago, rusty69 said: ................And holding a big electric fan .......Ah, damn, that's how I was going to do my video later in the week! Edited November 21, 2017 by Dr Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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