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Eco Fan


mrsmelly

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38 minutes ago, mark99 said:

 

Can the people continually stating the fans are completely useless explain in simple language why the air shown moving in the video above <the Vulcan example> does not help whatsoever in gaining a more more even temperature to aid comfort?

 

If they did that then they wouldnt be able to sustain two separate 400 post threads. Whilst Mark, it may be clear to you and me, and the few others - given the video and 2 papers (discussed here and on the other thread), it is very difficult to change the minds of those who refuse to accept facts. I think enough information has been presented that does support the benefit of the fans, but other than the (enjoyable) debate between myself and Mross, there have been very few 'serious' comments on the efficacy of the data. There certainly seems to be a lack of engineers or scientiests to discuss the data so instead it is just black or white comments of what seems like 'lay people' which dont really help the discussion.

What would really help here is an engineer with fluid dynamics experience who can talk about heat dispersion. I think you are right Marc in that we dont understand the power of a fan that is actually needed to improve thermal comfort. We certainly dont need a fast 12v fan - as that will only make us feel like we are in a draught. You actually only need a small flow to disturb the stratification (or whatever we call it!!) and it should improve thermal comfort. Perhaps the ecofan is good enough. I keep saying it but some of us are more sensitive to heat so a small amount of air movement might be fine.

It is intersting that the Waterloo paper claims the Eco fan 800 saves 15% fuel. I have not yet seen any argument that would say that was wrong - although was the paper published on April 1st?

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7 minutes ago, Dr Bob said:

If they did that then they wouldnt be able to sustain two separate 400 post threads. Whilst Mark, it may be clear to you and me, and the few others - given the video and 2 papers (discussed here and on the other thread), it is very difficult to change the minds of those who refuse to accept facts. I think enough information has been presented that does support the benefit of the fans, but other than the (enjoyable) debate between myself and Mross, there have been very few 'serious' comments on the efficacy of the data. There certainly seems to be a lack of engineers or scientiests to discuss the data so instead it is just black or white comments of what seems like 'lay people' which dont really help the discussion.

What would really help here is an engineer with fluid dynamics experience who can talk about heat dispersion. I think you are right Marc in that we dont understand the power of a fan that is actually needed to improve thermal comfort. We certainly dont need a fast 12v fan - as that will only make us feel like we are in a draught. You actually only need a small flow to disturb the stratification (or whatever we call it!!) and it should improve thermal comfort. Perhaps the ecofan is good enough. I keep saying it but some of us are more sensitive to heat so a small amount of air movement might be fine.

It is intersting that the Waterloo paper claims the Eco fan 800 saves 15% fuel. I have not yet seen any argument that would say that was wrong - although was the paper published on April 1st?

:lol: Stop it Bob :lol: Stop it my side are splitting :giggles:

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7 minutes ago, Dr Bob said:

 it is very difficult to change the minds of those who refuse to accept facts

But you have no facts, only contentions.  And I don't either.  But the companies who flog these fans should be required to produce some evidence to back up their claims.

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11 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

:lol: Stop it Bob :lol: Stop it my side are splitting :giggles:

When you finished laughing the challenge is still there. Explain why moving 3m3 per min does not help mixing the air temp and removing/reducing temp gradient.

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It may help, but I think, based on my experience as an engineer, that the effect is too small to consider.  If you can show me how this figure of 120 cubic feet per minute is measured, I might reconsider.  To me the silence of these fans is evidence that they are merely cosmetic.  You can't shift air mechanically without making noise.

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6 minutes ago, mross said:

It may help, but I think, based on my experience as an engineer, that the effect is too small to consider.  If you can show me how this figure of 120 cubic feet per minute is measured, I might reconsider.  To me the silence of these fans is evidence that they are merely cosmetic.  You can't shift air mechanically without making noise.

My fan  is sold with a quote of 265 CFM flow and makes a big deal out of it. Surely they cant be lying?

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53 minutes ago, mross said:

But where is this airflow measured?

You would have to consult AMCA 230 - 12 test standard to find out I guess.

I agree with Bob - any temp diff between 0.5 and 2 degrees will be felt. Whether that's an absolute gain or whether it's across a temp gradient you sit in.

These devices are not wonder solutions. I would not have one in a large house room, but in the confines of a narrowboat saloon I contend they help with even-ing out the temp in front of the fan esp in the vertical plane. They, for me, fetch warm air behind the stove and push it out front and help even out the temp zone I sit within.

 

 

 

Edited by mark99
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1 hour ago, mark99 said:

When you finished laughing the challenge is still there. Explain why moving 3m3 per min does not help mixing the air temp and removing/reducing temp gradient.

Just been next door to the bro in laws boat, he although of sound mind and body like you actualy believes his fan does something, bless his cotton socks :giggles: He duly brought piece of cotton and dangled it in front of said fan and at a distance of about three inches it actualy moved ( a very little ) six inches away it had stopped moving, so had the air. Watch my lips THEY DONT WORK. Snake oil, chocolate fireguards, anti ageing cream etc etc. They do however look good and its a medicaly proven fact after some proper research over the years that the placebo effect is real, hence some people actualy believe their eco fan works.

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12 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

Just been next door to the bro in laws boat, he although of sound mind and body like you actualy believes his fan does something, bless his cotton socks :giggles: He duly brought piece of cotton and dangled it in front of said fan and at a distance of about three inches it actualy moved ( a very little ) six inches away it had stopped moving, so had the air. Watch my lips THEY DONT WORK. Snake oil, chocolate fireguards, anti ageing cream etc etc. They do however look good and its a medicaly proven fact after some proper research over the years that the placebo effect is real, hence some people actualy believe their eco fan works.

Not a proper Scientific test! the Cotton should have been wet and it's Humidity measured before and after the Laughter.

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23 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

Just been next door to the bro in laws boat, he although of sound mind and body like you actualy believes his fan does something, bless his cotton socks :giggles: He duly brought piece of cotton and dangled it in front of said fan and at a distance of about three inches it actualy moved ( a very little ) six inches away it had stopped moving, so had the air. Watch my lips THEY DONT WORK. Snake oil, chocolate fireguards, anti ageing cream etc etc. They do however look good and its a medicaly proven fact after some proper research over the years that the placebo effect is real, hence some people actualy believe their eco fan works.

But both of mine stand on my Dickinson Stove.

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If I had an Ecofan then I would know for certain that it didn't work but I would still keep it as I could mentally allow for the degree of non-workingness so I would not send it back, and I would have it around to reinforce my observations that it didn't work. :closedeyes: (PS I might get a 2nd one to corroborate the defects of the first one.)

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10 minutes ago, Bod said:

If 2 peltier units were fitted to an ecofan, could the extra unit run a remote fan?

 

Bod

Funnily enough experiments by the military especialy in the USA have been ongoing for many years re this matter. The military needed larger helicopters to move large equipment and many personel and no internal combustion type engines in build were powerful enough for the job. The problem was solved by the top brains from NASA and the Chinook helicopter was born. Powered by not one but two eco fans with a large propeller at each end of the aircraft. Sat at each end under the eco fan is a crew member with a lighted candle producing the required heat source. Early problems were caused by using candles too large for the job and small household candles were eventualy found best for the job otherwise the helicopters used to climb too high and orbit the earth.

Edited by mrsmelly
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