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The true license evaders


GoodGurl

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3 hours ago, mrsmelly said:

What am I then? At present I have 2 moorings one on the Oxford and one in the marina I am parked in at present. I will still have the oxford one in march when we sod off cruising again but will not be using it as I will be ccing.......................Do I need a licence or a rebate :)

You need your head examined :detective:

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5 minutes ago, matty40s said:

It included 7 pictures of BW vessels moored on lock landings and visitor moorings(and one IN a lock), when they were saying there was congestion everywhere.

you like keeping them " onside " then?  :lol:

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38 minutes ago, Victor Vectis said:

Well said.

I get annoyed with bloggers/posters etc who moan about 'obviously unlicensed' boats, usually tossing in words like 'scruffy' as well.

I hope 'Red Wharf' doesn't look scruffy but we have small portholes. I don't like blocking one up with the license disc (square?) so it goes at the front on the cratch board glass. Easy to miss when passing to nebby buggers with nowt better to do, so according to some we are 'unlicenced'.

To curtain twitchers possibly but not to CRT.  Like most people’s our licence “square” is home printed, but I was accused of having a fake licence as it was all faded, true it is faded ink jet is not very resistent to UV.

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46 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

Thanks. It was a genuine question but I will not need to do any asking as the boss has kept a cruising diary since 1989. Its fun to look up some of the early days to remember when we actualy where were we were if you know what I mean :unsure: On a personal basis when working we have always got a mooring and when we cc we cc. Next year we will leave the T and m to Bristol and up to York and the maccy so just about complying with the ahemm " 20 " miles ccing " recommendation " :o

Thanks was wonderin as its been mentioned on ere b4 I suppose that's why if someone moves one way and then back the other they can look as though they havnt actualy moved?

yes in my case i went for dinner in mercia then returned to the same place as i had 3 days left there :lol: but they came back and logged me which in their eyes was 17 days lol but as i said i got it sorted in the end and note removed.

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6 hours ago, GoodGurl said:

So everybody kicks off about CCrs not being licensed when in truth its marina boats that are the biggest culprits.

 

All this about licences is all very well, but isn't half the cause of complaints from some quarters the fact that SOME CCers abuse the system by actually CMing?  In those cases not only is a licence fee being avoided but also the cost of a mooring of whatever sort.

George

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5 minutes ago, furnessvale said:

All this about licences is all very well, but isn't half the cause of complaints from some quarters the fact that SOME CCers abuse the system by actually CMing?  In those cases not only is a licence fee being avoided but also the cost of a mooring of whatever sort.

George

Which in the majority of cases also results in more income for CaRT.

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53 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

Which in the majority of cases also results in more income for CaRT.

From 2016/17 Annual Report (page 38) total licence and mooring income is £44.7 Million. Licence income accounts for less than half this figure - £19.6 Million.

It pay C&RT to encourage boaters to have home moorings.
 

                                

 

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13 minutes ago, Allan(nb Albert) said:

From 2016/17 Annual Report (page 38) total licence and mooring income is £44.7 Million. Licence income accounts for less than half this figure - £19.6 Million.

It pay C&RT to encourage boaters to have home moorings.
 

                                

 

And it pays me not to have one 

:)

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6 hours ago, Allan(nb Albert) said:

Five successful prosecutions over the last 12 months according to C&RT's website

 

1 hour ago, furnessvale said:

All this about licences is all very well, but isn't half the cause of complaints from some quarters the fact that SOME CCers abuse the system by actually CMing?  In those cases not only is a licence fee being avoided but also the cost of a mooring of whatever sort.

George

In light of the fact that C&RT apparently can't be bothered to prosecute and then follow up by claiming for unpaid fees via the Courts (see earlier post by 'Allan(nb Albert)', is there any point in identifying and recording the details of these so-called abusers.

Far from being instrumental in reducing pecuniary losses to the Trust, it would appear that C&RT's Enforcement and Legal departments only function to supplement them.

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10 minutes ago, TheDuker said:

 

In light of the fact that C&RT apparently can't be bothered to prosecute and then follow up by claiming for unpaid fees via the Courts (see earlier post by 'Allan(nb Albert)', is there any point in identifying and recording the details of these so-called abusers.

Far from being instrumental in reducing pecuniary losses to the Trust, it would appear that C&RT's Enforcement and Legal departments only function to supplement them.

But you don't know how many of those boaters they sent a letter to and they immediately  paid what they owed. How often do you see it said on here that people don't think they need a licence if they don't leave the marina

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18 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

But you don't know how many of those boaters they sent a letter to and they immediately  paid what they owed. How often do you see it said on here that people don't think they need a licence if they don't leave the marina

True enough, I don't, but do you really believe that if C&RT were successful in recovering in excess of 99% of all the unpaid licence fees recorded over a 12 month period that they would refrain from publishing the fact ?

Furthermore, paying up after having been caught without a licence does not absolve the offender from prosecution. Were C&RT to prosecute in every instance of an unlicensed boat being sighted on their waterways it would undoubtedly have a salutary effect on those inclined not to pay their way.

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11 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

How often do you see it said on here that people don't think they need a licence if they don't leave the marina

According to the C&RT website the definition of 'waterway' includes the great majority of marinas so the great majority do need a license whether or not the boat is taken out for a cruise. 

https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/enjoy-the-waterways/boating/licensing-your-boat/choosing-and-buying-your-licence

However the C&RT wording indicates there are some marinas (which are inferred as being in a small minority) where the boats need not necessarily be licensed while in the marina .

Therefore it seems probable that some of the people who think they dont need a license if they don't leave the marina are correct (depending on the marina).

 

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23 minutes ago, MartynG said:

According to the C&RT website the definition of 'waterway' includes the great majority of marinas so the great majority do need a license whether or not the boat is taken out for a cruise. 

https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/enjoy-the-waterways/boating/licensing-your-boat/choosing-and-buying-your-licence

However the C&RT wording indicates there are some marinas (which are inferred as being in a small minority) where the boats need not necessarily be licensed while in the marina .

Therefore it seems probable that some of the people who think they dont need a license if they don't leave the marina are correct (depending on the marina).

 

Well they would say that, wouldn't they ...

The waterway on which you require a licence or (in the case of river navigations) a certificate is defined by legislation.

The requirement for a licence outside of the area defined by legislation (e.g. most marinas) is subject to the mooring contact between boater and marina.

Whilst NAA's (Network Access Agreement's)  between C&RT and marina owners might stipulate that boats in the marina must have a current licence, it is very difficult to see how this can be enforced.

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9 minutes ago, Allan(nb Albert) said:


Whilst NAA's (Network Access Agreement's)  between C&RT and marina owners might stipulate that boats in the marina must have a current licence, it is very difficult to see how this can be enforced.

As a condition of the NAA marina owners have to allow CRT staff in to check the licence status of boats there. They then have the same information to pursue enforcement as for unlicenced boats on the canal.

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9 minutes ago, David Mack said:

As a condition of the NAA marina owners have to allow CRT staff in to check the licence status of boats there. They then have the same information to pursue enforcement as for unlicenced boats on the canal.

I am guessing in some cases the network access agreement was made some decades ago and the current wording requiring boats to be licensed was not applied.

 

 

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7 minutes ago, MartynG said:

I am guessing in some cases the network access agreement was made some decades ago and the current wording requiring boats to be licensed was not applied.

 

 

Yes . NAAs have been around for about 10-15 years and some private marinas with older agreements are not covered. 

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33 minutes ago, David Mack said:

As a condition of the NAA marina owners have to allow CRT staff in to check the licence status of boats there. They then have the same information to pursue enforcement as for unlicenced boats on the canal.

 

EXCEPT....

The unlicenced boats in the marina are not in the canal.

So the 'enforcement' action is different. It has to be aimed at the marina owner not the boat owner, for allowing an unlicenced boat in the marina in breach of the NAA.

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17 hours ago, Arthur Marshall said:

Actually, I think it's the original premise that's wrong - most of us, CCers or home moorers, pay our licences and don't really worry too much about those who don't.  I've never heard anyone, in thirty years of boating, kick off about unlicensed boaters though I have heard loads of moaning about dredging, lousy mooring practices, bust facilities, broken locks and thoughtless driving.  It's one of those nonsense subjects that raises the hackles of about three people who make a lot of noise. The rest of us just quietly get on pottering about.

Not entirely true: as with car licences, I understand that the most significant correlation is with those who have no insurance. A lack of a usable insurance policy is much more significant to me than the licence. Same with boats.

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21 hours ago, mrsmelly said:

What am I then? At present I have 2 moorings one on the Oxford and one in the marina I am parked in at present. I will still have the oxford one in march when we sod off cruising again but will not be using it as I will be ccing.......................Do I need a licence or a rebate :)

You need a big bank balance.

BTW I see you're planning to come up to York does that mean Trent Falls with your long boat or have you got a shorter one for trips 'oop norf'

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4 minutes ago, Midnight said:

You need a big bank balance.

BTW I see you're planning to come up to York does that mean Trent Falls with your long boat or have you got a shorter one for trips 'oop norf'

Tidal Trent in at Keadby go through Throrne lock and oop tut Selby and out and up to York. A seventy footer goes through Thorne lock ( narrow beam )

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18 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

Tidal Trent in at Keadby go through Throrne lock and oop tut Selby and out and up to York. A seventy footer goes through Thorne lock ( narrow beam )

Hmmmm

Stainforth and Keadby - Thorne Lock

Length Beam Draught Headroom

18.8m 5.6m 2.43m -

61.68ft 18.37ft 7.97ft -

Height is 3.30m over 16ft, (4.9m wide).

1.Through passage is limited by Thorne Lock. For the Bramwith to Thorne section, dimensions are as for the main line to Rotherham. Passage from River Trent To Thorne is limited by Keadby Lock 77ft x 22ft 6ins (23.67m x 6.86m) although longer vraft can be admitted when the tide makes a level. 2.Narrowboats up to about 18.79m (61ft 8ins) can pass through Thorne Lock diagonally.

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6 minutes ago, Midnight said:

Hmmmm

Stainforth and Keadby - Thorne Lock

Length Beam Draught Headroom

18.8m 5.6m 2.43m -

61.68ft 18.37ft 7.97ft -

Height is 3.30m over 16ft, (4.9m wide).

1.Through passage is limited by Thorne Lock. For the Bramwith to Thorne section, dimensions are as for the main line to Rotherham. Passage from River Trent To Thorne is limited by Keadby Lock 77ft x 22ft 6ins (23.67m x 6.86m) although longer vraft can be admitted when the tide makes a level. 2.Narrowboats up to about 18.79m (61ft 8ins) can pass through Thorne Lock diagonally.

Yes I thought you might come up with that old chestnut. Watch my lips " Its a load of crap " much of whats written on line is wrong and personal recommendation is needed. I have been both ways thro Thorne lock on my previous boat a seventy foot Hudson.

4 minutes ago, Victor Vectis said:

Are you sure about that Tim?

Yes mate I have published it on here a few time on different threads. Its a shame its not better known as I think it has stopped countless people going oop north for many years. I took the seventy foot Hudson through both ways Up hill forwards and backed in to return. There was NO SPACE so it will depend how precise my or any other boats length is.

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