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Is longer better or worse?


PeterCr

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20 hours ago, PeterCr said:

 there are a (very few) places on the system where it may be an issue.

As I seem to find myself saying at least twice a week, IMHO this massively understates the matter. A 63 footer (say) can't do the L&L from Wigan to Leeds, including the glorious stretch through Skipton etc., and can't get to the Lancaster. In theory it can do the other two (unmissable) Pennine canals, the Rochdale and the Huddersfield Narrow, but only if you turn straight round and go back the same way, because you can't then continue along the Calder and Hebble and/or Huddersfield Broad. Your only route to the rest of the northern network (Aire and Calder, Selby, Ouse etc.) is therefore the tidal Trent. If you're not fussed about the Yorkshire and Lancashire waterways and you appreciate the extra space on board, a longer boat might still be the right choice for you, but it massively affects your access to the whole northern network - it's not just about 'a very few places' with short locks.

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2 hours ago, magictime said:

As I seem to find myself saying at least twice a week, IMHO this massively understates the matter. A 63 footer (say) can't do the L&L from Wigan to Leeds, including the glorious stretch through Skipton etc., and can't get to the Lancaster. In theory it can do the other two (unmissable) Pennine canals, the Rochdale and the Huddersfield Narrow, but only if you turn straight round and go back the same way, because you can't then continue along the Calder and Hebble and/or Huddersfield Broad. Your only route to the rest of the northern network (Aire and Calder, Selby, Ouse etc.) is therefore the tidal Trent. If you're not fussed about the Yorkshire and Lancashire waterways and you appreciate the extra space on board, a longer boat might still be the right choice for you, but it massively affects your access to the whole northern network - it's not just about 'a very few places' with short locks.

Work out just how long it takes to get from the Midlands to those canals, then double it, and you'll see why we don't cruise the northern waterways. Work gets in the way. Faced with that, a 70' boat is no problem at all

Richard

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12 hours ago, dmr said:

57 is the accepted "go anywhere" length so is popular, and so 55 is obviously less popular.

Once you go over 57 then 70 makes sense, lots of extra space. Once you go to 70 then why not do it properly with a deeper boat, engine room and back cabin?. Both good and bad points with the handling so it balances out. There are some advantages to 68-69 as 70 is a very tight fit in a few locks.

60 to 65 is not a good length in my opinion, as its the worse of both worlds. 60 or maybe even 62 is probably still a "go anywhere" length but with a lot of effort and I suspect that most of these boats don't actually do the short northern locks, or try them just once. By choosing a 60 foot boat many people have already made the decision that "I am not a Northern boater".

Descending locks with leaky top gates is the biggest issue with maximum length boats. (and cleaning and polishing the sides):D

.............Dave

What can't one do with a 60 ft?

4 hours ago, alan_fincher said:

There isn't a chance 62 feet could do the Calder and Hebble.

People have apparently done it in 60 feet, but only with much juggling, which can involve doing some locks facing backwards.

Having watched 57' and 58' boats struggle on this cut, (including watching two sharing having to refill a lock they had descended to release one of them backwards out the top again, because once empty, neither could get past the bottom gates!), 58 feet is the absolute maximum I would want to try, without it becoming a major fight.  Even then the gates leak badly enough you are guaranteed to flood your back cabin or engine compartment at some stage, unless very very vigilant, with all doors kept shut.

OK, you don't have to be able to do the C&H, but you are ruling out circular routes on the most dramatic canals in the country.

I'f you never expect to go North of (say) Manchester though, then its obviously not a problem.  A compromise we have to accept with a 72 foot historic boat, never intended to access the shorter locks up North.

We brought our 60ft over C&H this summer - only two locks are really tight. We are not necessarily the fittest of boaters but it was more the anticipation of having to go the long way round if we failed than the actuality. There was not that much juggling but the shortest did require a bit of care. I'd rather do them coming up than down - although we did do down in our previous boat, also 60ft.

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Something that I always struggled with re. very long boats was actually keeping the thing warm. If the stove is at one end its tricky to move the heat along the boat. Heat is happy to rise but getting it into the cold dark bits right at the far end and avoiding damp was always hard. I accept that in a boat built by a very experienced builder and fitted with very good systems that this might not be a problem but there's an awful lot of boats that might fall short of this.

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We set out at the start of the year to buy a 'go anywhere' boat around the 55-57ft mark. Very few around. Ended up buying our 'perfect' 62'. Ok we cant go up to the frozen north (winter is coming) but the extra room is a real bonus.....er no, actually now an essential. Not sure we would have had enough room on a smaller one. Its going to be quite a few years before we exhaust the options for routes south of Manchester. The only downside I see of a long boat is that it becomes more difficult to wind (for a novice) but after a short while that becomes a non-issue.

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38 minutes ago, Bee said:

Something that I always struggled with re. very long boats was actually keeping the thing warm. If the stove is at one end its tricky to move the heat along the boat. Heat is happy to rise but getting it into the cold dark bits right at the far end and avoiding damp was always hard. I accept that in a boat built by a very experienced builder and fitted with very good systems that this might not be a problem but there's an awful lot of boats that might fall short of this.

Yes, this is true, and ours does not have the best insulation either.

The main multifuel stove keeps the front warm. There is a second stove at the back but we rarely use it it makes the back cabin too hot. We do the daily engine room from 6 to 8pm which makes the back cabin warm ready for bed. It can be seriously cold first thing in the morning, have even seen an icicle on the pigeon box. The problem area is the main bedroom in the centre of the boats. This is used as a store room and dogs bedroom. The dog gets cold in winter but a nice pair of pink dog pyjamas solves that problem.

..............Dave

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11 hours ago, RLWP said:

Work out just how long it takes to get from the Midlands to those canals, then double it, and you'll see why we don't cruise the northern waterways. Work gets in the way. Faced with that, a 70' boat is no problem at all

Richard

The Trent is great for doing long distances quickly. I reckon you could do Shardlow (The Midlands) to Keadby (The North) in two good days cruising, three if you wanted to take it a bit easier.

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True, but then Shardlow is probably 3 to 4 days  from our mooring so we might just get to Kneadby in a weeks holiday, then we can't go any further north, and we'd have to leave her there till we could manage another weeks holiday.

This is why we decided not to worry about a go anywhere boat. That and the fact we wanted her as a holiday boat to go with friends and their children. 12 berths was more important to us than being able to do the northern canals!

We don't regret it at all, and when we finally retire we can either change her for a smaller boat to do the northern canals, or even hire a boat to do them.

Sue

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1 hour ago, dmr said:

Yes, this is true, and ours does not have the best insulation either.

The main multifuel stove keeps the front warm. There is a second stove at the back but we rarely use it it makes the back cabin too hot. We do the daily engine room from 6 to 8pm which makes the back cabin warm ready for bed. It can be seriously cold first thing in the morning, have even seen an icicle on the pigeon box. The problem area is the main bedroom in the centre of the boats. This is used as a store room and dogs bedroom. The dog gets cold in winter but a nice pair of pink dog pyjamas solves that problem.

..............Dave

An ecofan is your friend.

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2 hours ago, Jim Riley said:

An ecofan is your friend.

I’ve always found them very friendly. 

Ineffective and pointless for any purpose other than showing you when to stoke the fire, but friendly. 

54 minutes ago, Victor Vectis said:

Ok folks.

Popcorn time.

:D

Happy to oblige :P

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8 minutes ago, john6767 said:

I like my eco fan, well cheap chineese copy, it spins round in a satisfying manor and rattles a bit since it fell of the stove and bent one of the blades.

I think they look nice, bro in law has one on his boat. Other than " Extra virgin " snake oil I cannot think of anything else however that is quite useless as at what it is supposed to do.

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18 hours ago, Victor Vectis said:

Ok folks.

Popcorn time.

:D

I was wearing my pretty usherrette's outfit when I posted.

However my stove won't boil a kettle with the ecofan on, take the ecofan off the water boils. Also, the room it's in has cold spots near the window,, in corners etc with no fan, even temperature with, and the heat spreads to other rooms with doors left open.

Doubters explain the difference please, scientifically, non of your emotional twaddle you trot out every time, the questions I've posted have never been answered. Who has robbed the joules?

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55 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Could it be that when the fan is on the top of the stove there is no room for the kettle, take the fan off, replace it with the kettle and the water boils ?

Haha! Room for both. In a recent poll, in a place inhabited by more intelligent posters, 84% of voters thought that they worked.

 

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12 minutes ago, Jim Riley said:

Haha! Room for both. In a recent poll, in a place inhabited by more intelligent posters, 84% of voters thought that they worked.

 

I bought one but obviously I am dead fick cause it didn't make any difference and now sits by the side of the stove gathering dust

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2 hours ago, Jim Riley said:

I was wearing my pretty usherrette's outfit when I posted.

However my stove won't boil a kettle with the ecofan on, take the ecofan off the water boils. Also, the room it's in has cold spots near the window,, in corners etc with no fan, even temperature with, and the heat spreads to other rooms with doors left open.

Doubters explain the difference please, scientifically, non of your emotional twaddle you trot out every time, the questions I've posted have never been answered. Who has robbed the joules?

That will be the wind chill effect from the eco fan.  :P

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Quote

The dog likes to be on the counter so those leaky gates are a real issue for us. We could use them to wash the dog 

Quote

The dog gets cold in winter but a nice pair of pink dog pyjamas solves that problem.

Sounds like the dogs on board get treated pretty well! I've never seen a dog in pink pajamas, or any pajamas for that matter!

Thanks all, sounds like it's better to avoid the longer boats, we would like to go north at some stage. Shame as we found a nice looking boat listed at 61 feet but when I tracked down the CRT registration it was registered at 63 feet!

Not finding it easy locating a good 57 (or so) footer. Fingers crossed anyway. 

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