Is longer better or worse?

[PeterCr]

Hi all, we're looking to buy a boat. Ideally we would like something around the 52 - 55 foot range.

Sadly though after some months of looking we really haven't seen anything around those lengths that we would even look at.

But we have seen the odd boat a little longer than that which we would look at. 61 feet, 63 and so on.

I know that a longer boat is a bit more expensive to licence and moor, and there are a (very few) places on the system where it may be an issue.

But apart from this can anyone offer any reasons why we shouldn't start considering boats that are a little longer.

Are there any other downsides (or upsides) to longer boats?

Cheers all

[Bewildered]

With any boat the downside goes in the water and the upside sits above the water.

Longer boat more living and storage space, shorter boat more cruising range. Take a look at lock dimensions to see what is likely to be your cruising area http://www.jim-shead.com/waterways/mwp.php?wpage=CraftSize.htm then decide if you are likely to want to travel on the few canals a full length boat can't do.

[PeterCr]

25 minutes ago, Bewildered said:

With any boat the downside goes in the water and the upside sits above the water.

Would be strange the other way round!

[Bewildered]

Unless of course you were to take a cruise in the 1970's on a ship named Posiden and Gene Hackman is on board dressed as a priest, then it would be perfectly normal

[Bewildered]

It really depends on what you want your boat for. Living on a boat usually requires the maximum space, holiday boats just the bare essentials. Shorter boats may not have a permanent fixed bed, converting the dinette table every night can be a pain in the arse for a live aboard. If you live aboard are you going to be marina based or continual cruising? If live aboard do you need a washing machine? Do you need a freezer? Do you need space to dry washing on a clothes horse? How much wardrobe space do you require?

The list is endless, there are plenty of posts on here started by people considering getting a boat and plenty of replies, just don't ask which is the best type of toilet

[Alan de Enfield]

8 hours ago, PeterCr said:

Hi all, we're looking to buy a boat. Ideally we would like something around the 52 - 55 foot range.

Sadly though after some months of looking we really haven't seen anything around those lengths that we would even look at.

The reason there are few of that size for sale is :

1) They don't make many that size because they are unpopular, or

2) They are the most popular and versatile size so there are not a great many available for sale, and as soon as one does become available it is 'snapped-up'

You decide !

As a 6-month holidayboat, you will have no problems doing a high percentage of the system with a 60 / 65 footer, you will miss out on some of the nicest Yorkshire / Northern canals, but that will be (slightly) balanced out by more space and being able to spend more time in the asre end of the country 

Edited November 13, 2017 by Alan de Enfield

[alan_fincher]

8 hours ago, PeterCr said:

But we have seen the odd boat a little longer than that which we would look at. 61 feet, 63 and so on.

I know that a longer boat is a bit more expensive to licence and moor, and there are a (very few) places on the system where it may be an issue.

It's not just mooring and licensing costs.

Other things are also priced "by the foot or metre", such as regular blacking or full external repaints.

There are lots more places you can turn a 52' boat around than a 62 foot boat - not a show stopper, but useful if you take short trips out from a permanent mooring on a canal with only infrequent winding holes.

Much depends though on whether you wish to rule out  many of the Northern canals.  A trip over the Pennines on the Leeds and Liverpool, or travelling to the Rochdale via the Calder and Hebble, (the latter can't be passed by anything at 60 feet and above) is one of the most impressive you can do.

You mention 63 feet.  A very odd size, because at 62 feet you could do the L&L, at least, but I think that extra foot would stop you.

All this said, I admit my main boat is 71' 8" (!)

[Detling]

There are thousands of 56-59 footers on the system, they are there because they gives the most space that can go anywhere. The owners can't all be wrong.

[RLWP]

We have a 70' boat, apart from the costs she doesn't cause us difficulties. I'd suggest she is easier to handle as she isn't as skittish as a short boat, and she doesn't mess about in locks

Richard

[dmr]

57 is the accepted "go anywhere" length so is popular, and so 55 is obviously less popular.

Once you go over 57 then 70 makes sense, lots of extra space. Once you go to 70 then why not do it properly with a deeper boat, engine room and back cabin?. Both good and bad points with the handling so it balances out. There are some advantages to 68-69 as 70 is a very tight fit in a few locks.

60 to 65 is not a good length in my opinion, as its the worse of both worlds. 60 or maybe even 62 is probably still a "go anywhere" length but with a lot of effort and I suspect that most of these boats don't actually do the short northern locks, or try them just once. By choosing a 60 foot boat many people have already made the decision that "I am not a Northern boater".

Descending locks with leaky top gates is the biggest issue with maximum length boats. (and cleaning and polishing the sides)

.............Dave

[RLWP]

It's not necessarily 'I'm not a Northern boater'. I'd happily do some of the northern waterways, only life gets in the way. We just don't have time to get up there and work too

The leaky gate thing can be turned to your advantage. I soaked, scrubbed, washed and rinsed Tawny's rear deck coming down Foxton this year. Hasn't been so clean in ages

Richard

[dmr]

8 minutes ago, RLWP said:

It's not necessarily 'I'm not a Northern boater'. I'd happily do some of the northern waterways, only life gets in the way. We just don't have time to get up there and work too

The leaky gate thing can be turned to your advantage. I soaked, scrubbed, washed and rinsed Tawny's rear deck coming down Foxton this year. Hasn't been so clean in ages

Richard

Youv'e got a 70 foot boat, you can't be a Northern boater! (well except for going into Liverpool, the Weaver, Chester, The Rochdale and the Huddersfield Narrow).

I do wonder if a few of us 70 foot southerners could form a syndicate and get a little "Northern boat" between us.

The dog likes to be on the counter so those leaky gates are a real issue for us. We could use them to wash the dog but as she's a lurcher she really prefers a bath in warmer water.

.............Dave

[Dave_P]

I have a 55' boat because I'm contrary 

More seriously, a point which hasn't been mentioned is finding a mooring space.  I've often squeezed into a spot on a visitor mooring where even a 57' boat wouldn't go.  Boaters, I think, become quite adept at judging the length of their boat (for mooring and winding).

 

[Dave_P]

6 minutes ago, dmr said:

Youv'e got a 70 foot boat, you can't be a Northern boater! (well except for going into Liverpool, the Weaver, Chester, The Rochdale and the Huddersfield Narrow).

I do wonder if a few of us 70 foot southerners could form a syndicate and get a little "Northern boat" between us.

The dog likes to be on the counter so those leaky gates are a real issue for us. We could use them to wash the dog but as she's a lurcher she really prefers a bath in warmer water.

.............Dave

And the Yorkshire canals via Trent Falls (or Thorne lock if others on here are right)

[mrsmelly]

Having lived on several lengths 56/57/42/65/70/50 and at present 68 feet then its all been covered by previous posters except unlike most I have actualy lived on all those lengths .

Longer boats are nicer to drive and as a liveaboard VASTLY better because of space. They handle better due to length. Obviously cannot go everywhere so it depends where you actualy are going to use the boat. Of just as much importance is draught. I have had everything between 1ft 10inches which is what I have at present and 3 feet which I will never have again. The shallower draught makes for far less hassle on todays canals and I can always get alongside so no leaps of faith for us or the dog. Deep draughted boats with antique engines have their place but there are not that many museums about to put them in

[dmr]

2 hours ago, Dave_P said:

And the Yorkshire canals via Trent Falls (or Thorne lock if others on here are right)

Not brave enough to do Trent Falls and as we are 70 foot and 9 inches there is no chance of Thorne lock, but that is another good reason to get a boat at about 68 foot.

The mooring thing is an issue with a 70 footer but there is a growing trend for boats to leave a gap when mooring rather than to share a mooring bollard/ring. I don't approve of this but it does make life a lot easier as we can now fit into the gaps vacated by 57 foot boats.

............Dave

[cuthound]

2 hours ago, mrsmelly said:

Having lived on several lengths 56/57/42/65/70/50 and at present 68 feet then its all been covered by previous posters except unlike most I have actualy lived on all those lengths .

Longer boats are nicer to drive and as a liveaboard VASTLY better because of space. They handle better due to length. Obviously cannot go everywhere so it depends where you actualy are going to use the boat. Of just as much importance is draught. I have had everything between 1ft 10inches which is what I have at present and 3 feet which I will never have again. The shallower draught makes for far less hassle on todays canals and I can always get alongside so no leaps of faith for us or the dog. Deep draughted boats with antique engines have their place but there are not that many museums about to put them in

You make a compelling case for owning two boats of different lengths., one for the north and one for the south. 

[Dave_P]

7 minutes ago, cuthound said:

You make a compelling case for owning two boats of different lengths., one for the north and one for the south. 

Then you'd have to call them boatts.  B.O.A.T.T.

[Horace42]

Depends on how many you want to have on board all night or more. Work out the minimum length you need to 'live' in. Not the the space you can 'squeeze' in. As has been said above, dismantling a double dinette to make a double bed every night, and vice-versa the next day, and twice if the are 4 of you - becomes a nuisance after a while - about 10 seconds I would say. 

Our boat is 50 ft. An ex 8 berth hire. Great- there was room to 'sit still' and 'sleep' for 8 people when moored - no problem. But 'cruising' even with a cruiser stern during the day was a problem because there was no room to move around, or lounge and relax with your feet up in comfort, with people using the toilets and wash facilities - not much fun.

I completely stripped my boat back the the shell and refitted it  permanently laid out for 2, with a double bedroom and lounge area with 2 comfortable armchairs that fold out to make 2 beds if we have 2 members of the family with us. 

On that basis, plus the fact that every inch of space is efficiently used for storage (I could do with a foot or two more) - I would say 50ft is a minimum.

Anything less would be a bit of a squeeze. The only up side is, maybe is more opportunity to wind and moor, and less licence fee (what is the fee break point for 50+ft?  - and one thing I have noticed about shorter boats, but cannot find any official guidance on it - they seem to be exempt from the 4 mph speed.

 

[alan_fincher]

7 hours ago, dmr said:

60 to 65 is not a good length in my opinion, as its the worse of both worlds. 60 or maybe even 62 is probably still a "go anywhere" length but with a lot of effort and I suspect that most of these boats don't actually do the short northern locks, or try them just once. By choosing a 60 foot boat many people have already made the decision that "I am not a Northern boater".

There isn't a chance 62 feet could do the Calder and Hebble.

People have apparently done it in 60 feet, but only with much juggling, which can involve doing some locks facing backwards.

Having watched 57' and 58' boats struggle on this cut, (including watching two sharing having to refill a lock they had descended to release one of them backwards out the top again, because once empty, neither could get past the bottom gates!), 58 feet is the absolute maximum I would want to try, without it becoming a major fight.  Even then the gates leak badly enough you are guaranteed to flood your back cabin or engine compartment at some stage, unless very very vigilant, with all doors kept shut.

OK, you don't have to be able to do the C&H, but you are ruling out circular routes on the most dramatic canals in the country.

I'f you never expect to go North of (say) Manchester though, then its obviously not a problem.  A compromise we have to accept with a 72 foot historic boat, never intended to access the shorter locks up North.

[tree monkey]

9 hours ago, RLWP said:

We have a 70' boat, apart from the costs she doesn't cause us difficulties. I'd suggest she is easier to handle as she isn't as skittish as a short boat, and she doesn't mess about in locks

Richard

I agree with this,  the other halfs boat is 62 and very relaxed to steer,  on the other hand my 48ft is very very keen to have a closer look at the offside veg

[RLWP]

2 minutes ago, tree monkey said:

I agree with this,  the other halfs boat is 62 and very relaxed to steer,  on the other hand my 48ft is very very keen to have a closer look at the offside veg

Didn't you manage to steer Tawny? I know it was well beyond your rank during the BCN challenge, even so

Richard

[matty40s]

7 minutes ago, tree monkey said:

I agree with this,  the other halfs boat is 62 and very relaxed to steer,  on the other hand my 48ft is very very keen to have a closer look at the offside veg

Blaming your blummin boat for your tree fetish ...I've heard it all now.

[tree monkey]

6 minutes ago, RLWP said:

Didn't you manage to steer Tawny? I know it was well beyond your rank during the BCN challenge, even so

Richard

Yes, I think everyone else was asleep and yup Tawny is lovely to steer, apart from that cruiser stern thing

 

3 minutes ago, matty40s said:

Blaming your blummin boat for your tree fetish ...I've heard it all now.

Well it seems we are well matched

[RLWP]

1 minute ago, tree monkey said:

Yes, I think everyone else was asleep and yup Tawny is lovely to steer, apart from that cruiser stern thing

We have enough boat for luxuries like a cruiser stern

The worst feature of it is that it draws people out of the cabin, who then stand in front of the steerer

Richard