Jump to content
Strawberry Orange Banana Lime Leaf Slate Sky Blueberry Grape Watermelon Chocolate Marble
Strawberry Orange Banana Lime Leaf Slate Sky Blueberry Grape Watermelon Chocolate Marble
nbfiresprite

Marina Dog Ban

Featured Posts

55 minutes ago, NB Lola said:

No contextual similarity here.  We are talking about dog shit and inconsiderate owners.  Not sure how the principle transfers to murderers as simply as you suggest and it would be good to maintain on topic.

Think you will find its  been off topic a while.

Ian.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, NB Lola said:

No contextual similarity here.  We are talking about dog shit and inconsiderate owners.  Not sure how the principle transfers to murderers as simply as you suggest and it would be good to maintain on topic.

About the same as connecting it with boat blacking and base plate corrosion . Its the way things go on here

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, NB Lola said:

No contextual similarity here.  We are talking about dog shit and inconsiderate owners.  Not sure how the principle transfers to murderers as simply as you suggest and it would be good to maintain on topic.

The principle of rules being imposed because of the actions of the few.  Almost everything we're no longer allowed to do is because of something a few people did that was inconsiderate.  How is that not on topic when you said "Yup, let’s punish the many for the inconsiderate mis-deeds of the few."?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Psycloud said:

The principle of rules being imposed because of the actions of the few.  Almost everything we're no longer allowed to do is because of something a few people did that was inconsiderate.  How is that not on topic when you said "Yup, let’s punish the many for the inconsiderate mis-deeds of the few."?

Yes your comment certainly seemed more relevant than all the blacking stuff!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Midnight said:

I don't see how this can be anything other than steel quality and I'm not sure the fish would agree there's little oxygen 20" below the water-line.

The Norton Canes boat I mentioned has never had the base-plate blacked. It is berthed at Ripon where the water is very 'clean' judging by the mussels that attach to boats. Our boat was there too from launch for about 8 years. I discovered serious pitting (covering about 80% of the base, less at each end) and up to 4mm deep (looked like a cave) within a year of moving. Strangely the steel around the pitting was quite intact and shiny after wire brushing before applying the blacking. Two years on there was little 'rubbing off' despite navigating some shallow canals - however this could be one advantage of serious pitting. From new, Midnight's hull sides where sand-blasted and two-packed and they still look as good as new apart from the odd scratch. I only wish the base-plate had been given the same treatment.

I've also seen several boats from a well-known low-cost North West based company, some just a few years old with severe rusty delamination on the base-plate - not at all like the pitting on Midnight.

All this leads me to the conclusion not all steel is the same, so blacking underneath is very good insurance.

Dogs? What dogs?

There are three factors involved;-

- the composition of the steel

- the protective coatings applied to the steel

- the environment

While I can't categorically rule out any of them the first observation is that there is a massively higher degree of control around the first of those factors than there is around the others. The latter is often an unknown in scientific terms (and this is absolutely a scientific issue).

There is 40 times less oxygen in water than air and the rate of pure corrosion by rusting of mild steel plate in air is slow enough that a 10mm plate would massively outlast the intended lifespan of a narrowboat even without protection. Normal rust on a baseplate shouldn't be of concern. All new steel will rust if it is in contact with water and oxygen. The surface of steel is chemically unstable and the process of rusting is simply stabilisation of that surface. Following initial rusting the rate of corrosion then slows as the rust itself forms a protective barrier. I doubt the builder to which you refer is using materials that are different from any other builder. I don't know what surface preparation boat builders go through but there is more scope for variation there than in the material itself.

Pitting is caused by specific chemicals within solution hence on narrowboats it occurs predominantly underwater. It is highly specific to combinations of surface condition of the metal and chemicals within the solution. It's a bit of circle since the chemicals in the water influence the pH of the water which in turn influences the surface condition of the metal. When I say condition I am talking about the chemistry of the outer later rather than it's quality. Ironically pitting is more likely to affect 'higher' grade steels such as alloy steels and stainless steel. That's a function of the specific surface conditions of such steels.

As for your Norton Canes boat example the surface conditions of the newer and older steel will be different. The older steel had 22 years of chemical change to its surface layer that the new steel didn't have. It's also likely that it wasn't in the same location as the pitting occurred. What is certain is that something has attacked the steel. It could just be that in time the older steel would have suffered the same but has more natural resistance to such but that isn't a result of steel 'quality'. As for the water in Yorkshire it is possibly alkaline and that could be a factor irrespective of how clean it appears to be.

It's a complex area and I am not an expert - although I do have daily access to folk who are - but I know enough to conclude that the steel itself is the least likely factor and that even if it is about the steel it is more far more complex than simple issues of 'quality' (which to me means adherence to specification for chemical composition and geometrical tolerance).

We will never know for sure without scientific study of the specific conditions of boats in canals. And to put into context I moor my boat in an area of historic brine pumping,

And the best advice is to protect as much steelwork as you can and on that I think we are agreed.

JP

 

Edited by Captain Pegg
  • Greenie 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
40 minutes ago, Psycloud said:

The principle of rules being imposed because of the actions of the few.  Almost everything we're no longer allowed to do is because of something a few people did that was inconsiderate.  How is that not on topic when you said "Yup, let’s punish the many for the inconsiderate mis-deeds of the few."?

OP about a marina threatening to refuse boaters with dogs, having to punish all dog owners because of the few who cannot be arsed to pick up the crap - on topic as far as I can see.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/15/2017 at 10:19, Rickent said:

Whether it would matter or not is irrelevent, children are necessary for the continuation of the human race, therefore to say that children are an indulgence and not necessary is to me, a strange comment. If you agree that they are not necessary then that is your view and I respect that, even though I find it a strange one.

But the teleological question is why does the human race 'need' to be continued. Some might argue that the world will get along a whole lot better in the absence of humans!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Mike Todd said:

But the teleological question is why does the human race 'need' to be continued. Some might argue that the world will get along a whole lot better in the absence of humans!

 

Same point as I made more clumsily earlier.

Teleological. Lovely word, thanks!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

3 hours ago, Psycloud said:

The principle of rules being imposed because of the actions of the few.  Almost everything we're no longer allowed to do is because of something a few people did that was inconsiderate.  How is that not on topic when you said "Yup, let’s punish the many for the inconsiderate mis-deeds of the few."?

3 hours ago, NB Lola said:

OP about a marina threatening to refuse boaters with dogs, having to punish all dog owners because of the few who cannot be arsed to pick up the crap - on topic as far as I can see.

 

I meant I don't see how I'm off topic in response to what you posted but hey-ho.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dogs can be very useful. Get yourself a small tennis ball obsessed dog with a bushy, sticking up tail. Dip his tail in bitumen, throw tennis ball underneath your boat in dry dock, when the dog brings the ball back repeat as necessary until the bottom of the boat is adequately blacked.

just trying to bring the topic full circle :giggles:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×