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First ever steel narrow boat hulls manufactured for leisue boat use?


alan_fincher

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I guess I must have done a good job building/welding the hull of Su Sian. At that time  Dave Pper would have been the forman boat fitter/ wood worker as he left & went to building steel cabin cruisers from his house in Norbury village in early 68 Can't remember how long it was before he got his yard at Red Bull ,Kidsgrove & started building NB's

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I think it's probably fairer to say that GRP was an economy alternative to wooden cabins which were time consuming (therefore expensive) to build. The upmarket early builders (Allen, Braine, Cooper et al) had no truck with pre-fab fibreglass cabins and stayed with timber construction until steel cabins became more popular.

In the early days (up to the mid seventies) steel cabins were unpopular due to the lack of suitable insulation, possibly due to the poor reputation of the Yarwoods cabins amongst boatmen. The first Allens boat built with a steel cabin was in 1971, but plenty more were built after that with wooden tops. I have letters from 1971 relating to the conversion of my own boat at Malcom Braine's yard where the idea of a 3mm steel cabin was mooted, but both Malcolm and my grandfather were concerned about insulation and the decision was made to stick with pine t&g and masonite. Interestingly though, the coachroof was skinned with a fibreglass mat scrim and a layer of gelcoat which kept the masonite in good order and didn't leak in the 25 years or so it was on there for. With hindsight, I suppose we should be grateful no one took a leaf out of BR's book and used blue asbestos in narrowboats!

Anglo-Welsh and Rugby Boatbuilders cabins were done in a different way to the SUC/Teddesley ones. They used pre made (and insulated) panels about 8 feet long (from memory) and each side and the roof panel were seperate sections dropped onto cabin frames. This had a big advantage when the steerer discovered the biggest weakness of fibreglass cabin - bridge holes - but meant that they were much more prone to leaking as there were many joints. The BW hire fleets used to keep panels in stock and you could often find a Rugby Boat in the drydock at Hillmorton Yard having one of the roof and or first sections of the cabin replaced.

The Harborough ones (also run by BW) faird better as they were lower, and had the bridge guards. In the end, the Rugby built boats run by BW out of Nantwich had bridge guards fitted in an effort to ensure that they came out of the other side of Harecastle without extra ventilation. It did make getting off the fore end rather hazardous though.

Edited by Rose Narrowboats
Added missing words
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1 hour ago, Steilsteven said:

My son has one of these which was built in the early seventies, I think that they are quite a pretty design with a certain amount of sheer.

The superstructure on his comprises of ply bulkheads, grp top and aluminium sides.

Keith

Su Sian had a cabin with solid mahogany frames, plywood sides and two layers of plywood for the roof. The cabin had a very attractive curving sweep to the sides and roof and almost looked oriental. The roof had a layer of bonded canvas which was in very poor condition because of many layers of badly applied paint. In 1997 I stripped off the canvas and the plywood underneath was in good condition with attractive grain. After consulting a company in Southampton that specializes in the fibreglass coating of wooden yacht hulls I sanded the roof, applied a coat of epoxy primer, a layer of fibreglass matting and two more coats of resin. After a final sanding and a coat of anti UV varnish, if I say it myself, the roof looked wonderful and during a three year trip cruising the canals received many admiring comments.

 

B_21a.jpg.a91000eb9ea4e378d468229d2a902ca5.jpg

 

 

A_21.jpg

Edited by alvicchas1
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1 hour ago, Steilsteven said:

My son has one of these which was built in the early seventies, I think that they are quite a pretty design with a certain amount of sheer.

The superstructure on his comprises of ply bulkheads, grp top and aluminium sides.

Keith

Su Sian had a cabin with solid mahogany frames, plywood sides and two layers of plywood for the roof. The cabin had a very attractive curving sweep to the sides and roof and almost looked oriental. The roof had a layer of bonded canvas which was in very poor condition because of many layers of badly applied paint. In 1997 I stripped off the canvas and the plywood underneath was in good condition with attractive grain. After consulting a company in Southampton that specializes in the fibreglass coating of wooden yacht hulls I sanded the roof, applied a coat of epoxy primer, a layer of fibreglass matting and two more coats of resin. After a final sanding and a coat of anti UV varnish, if I say it myself, the roof looked wonderful and during a three year trip cruising the canals received many admiring comments.

 

B_21a.jpg.a91000eb9ea4e378d468229d2a902ca5.jpg

Oops - one picture too many - I think that must have been a congratulation for a good job on the roof

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On ‎12‎/‎11‎/‎2017 at 09:39, Ogwr said:

Not to forget Dennis Cooper pf CTS also at Norton Canes also late 60/s with his Tug Style.

Don't Les Allen and Ernie Thomas (of Hatherton fame) deserve a mention here ................??

Extract from Allen history...........................................

When the working boat trade died in the 1960's the family continued to repair boats finally moving into building steel boats as the leisure boat industry was born. This industry is today well established but when the Allen's started it was very much a new industry. Boat owners and customers of the Allen's in those days had to be capable of looking after themselves and many of todays appliances/services just were not available. So the yard grew up with a customer base that was mainly the self fit out brigade. Thus some of the first boats had crude but honest fit outs many of which have stood the test of time. But whatever the standard of the fit out the hull/shell of the boat was always first class. Many boats have since been re fitted that makes the quality of the shells stand out. One wonders just how many of todays boat builders products will stand the test of time. The boats of this era were always built with two motto's used at the yard in mind......

 

 

Great Les Allen quotes below especially the last one!!

 

"If God had intended boats to be made of fibre glass he would have made fibre glass trees".

"There is only one reason to paint a boat, that's to knock it off using the thing"

"Why put fenders all around your boat after we have spent hours putting solid metal rubbing strakes all around the boat".

 

 

Edited by Halsey
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3 hours ago, X Alan W said:

I guess I must have done a good job building/welding the hull of Su Sian. At that time  Dave Piper would have been the forman boat fitter/ wood worker as he left & went to building steel cabin cruisers from his house in Norbury village in early 68 Can't remember how long it was before he got his yard at Red Bull ,Kidsgrove & started building NB's

 

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In 1968 and 9. I bought 2 steel hulls built by a man who I think was called Dave Grassing whose main job was with Granada TV.   As I remember they were built at the bottom of the Macclesfield as I collected them from somewhere there using a 6hp outboard on a temporary bracket.   I designed 6 berths into 40 feet and employed someone to do the marine ply cabin tops and interiors.   I think we used water cooled Lister engines.   After that I left the canals until 1997 and had various yachts in the Med.   Unfortunately I don't have any photos from then.

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On 11/11/2017 at 21:54, alan_fincher said:

I'm actually not sure how exactly to phrase the question really!

Most early leisure narrow boats were conversions of former working boats.

At some point somebody must have started manufacturing steel narrow boat hulls specifically for no other purpose than leisure boat use.  (In most cases, I suggest the cabins would still have not been built in steel).

Which builder was the first to buils steel leisure narrow boat hulls, and when, please ?

I realise this subject can be interpreted in various ways though.  There may well have been some early "one off" builds, but which were not produced in multiple numbers for resale.

I'm interested in all answers, however you choose to interpret the question!

This is a genuine question, because my canal knowledge does not really pre-date the 1970s, but quite clearly we are looking at at least a bit longer ago than that.

 

There was a "one off" in existence in 1959, Mum, Dad, and Mum's sister rented it for a week from Castlefield's Basin in Manchester, and went to Nantwich and back

Somewhere there are photos, Mum would have found them quickly, it will take us longer

The next generation of Magpie Navigators only arrived in 1963 (1st Ade) and 1966 (Me) - by which time the family boating habit was well established

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I spoke to Malcolm Braine last night, he remembers a company called either Dami or Dani located in Stockport producing some boats in the early 1960's, maybe ties up with the previous post.

He also mentioned some boats built by a company called Halmo, also known as Halesowen Motor Company by anyone living in the West Midlands , one of the owners /directors was involved with the Avon restoration, although this was probably nearer the mid 60's

 

Steve

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6 minutes ago, Split Pin said:

I spoke to Malcolm Braine last night, he remembers a company called either Dami or Dani located in Stockport producing some boats in the early 1960's, maybe ties up with the previous post.

He also mentioned some boats built by a company called Halmo, also known as Halesowen Motor Company by anyone living in the West Midlands , one of the owners /directors was involved with the Avon restoration, although this was probably nearer the mid 60's

 

Steve

The  Director involved  in Halmo was a Mr CH Taplin an early enthusiast. He was involved with Lower Avon. I beleive the first hull was built for an Avon trust member in 1966 but have no evidence of an exact date   

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I remember  a company at Gosgrove in the early 60s building wooden cabins on steel hulls. Can’t remember the name now but they were good looking boats. The hulls May have been by springer but not the shape he is known for. Whilst I’ve been typing think the name was Faulkner. (B old age).

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On 11/14/2017 at 16:49, Laurence Hogg said:

For the record this was the fleet of new build hire boats from Isaac Pimblotts as delivered to Hillmorton in the early 1970's:

 

HILLMORTON WHARF OC NEW PIMBLOTT BUILT HIREBOATS 1973.jpg

I think one of these may be moored below Cowley Lock. The stern looks familiar. Do you have any pics of the bows, please?  Just remembered as I typed this--I think the one at Cowley is "Waterways Dolly", or  something like that.

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9 minutes ago, monkeyhanger said:

I think one of these may be moored below Cowley Lock. The stern looks familiar. Do you have any pics of the bows, please?  Just remembered as I typed this--I think the one at Cowley is "Waterways Dolly", or  something like that.

Yes, there is definitely one of these, (or very similar) moored at Cowley.

On 11/20/2017 at 18:01, Dav and Pen said:

I remember  a company at Gosgrove in the early 60s building wooden cabins on steel hulls. Can’t remember the name now but they were good looking boats. The hulls May have been by springer but not the shape he is known for. Whilst I’ve been typing think the name was Faulkner. (B old age).

I'm very doubtful that Faulkner were operating any earlier than dates already quoted for Springer, and I struggle to place them as potentially "early 60s".

"Late 60s", I would say.

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On 11/13/2017 at 18:02, X Alan W said:

In around 1963/4 2 brothers built a steel hull in their garden on the off side just above Gallows inn lock on the Erewash At first I thought it was a  full length butty but realised it had 2 fore ends it was cut in half & stern ends added to each half ISTR one of the brothers either passed away or got fed up & never completed it in that location the completed boat was named ON & ON  & ON no idea if the other was ever finished or scrapped

 

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In the March 1955 edition of the Motor Boat & Yachting there is an article with plans of a 38ft x 6ft 9in canal cruiser under construction by the General Engineering Co of Staylebridge for a Mr H Bell  of Ashton under Lyne. Designed by a naval architect it was centre wheelhouse,chine steel hull of 1/8th plate and powered by a Meadows petrol engine.                                      Morrell Mills Ship repairers of Trafford Wharfe Manchester built a steel hulled canal cruiser, it was built off the lines of a W W 2 seaplane tender with reduced beam, named Morrell Venture it was exhibited at the 1965 I W A Blackburn Rally.The hull was well built, the top was more of a temporary construction and it was powered by a borrowed Scammel marine petrol engine. If Morrel Mills had taken the lines off a narrow boat they would probably have had some customers. Morrell Venture sat on Trafford Wharf as bare hull until the early 1970's then sold. Renamed Rose of Yorkshire ? I saw it at several rallies in the eighties.                                                                                                                                                        In !967 we were moored at Ladyline Market Drayton, the boat behind us  Talisman had a Harris hull built in 1959/60 the owner Colin Evans a boater since before the war had built the top himself I remember we had a guided tour of the boat. Colin wrote an article in Practical Boat Owner on the build of the hull and the construction of the cabin, I still have a copy.

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15 hours ago, ANDREW P said:

In the March 1955 edition of the Motor Boat & Yachting there is an article with plans of a 38ft x 6ft 9in canal cruiser under construction by the General Engineering Co of Staylebridge for a Mr H Bell  of Ashton under Lyne. Designed by a naval architect it was centre wheelhouse,chine steel hull of 1/8th plate and powered by a Meadows petrol engine.                                      Morrell Mills Ship repairers of Trafford Wharfe Manchester built a steel hulled canal cruiser, it was built off the lines of a W W 2 seaplane tender with reduced beam, named Morrell Venture it was exhibited at the 1965 I W A Blackburn Rally.The hull was well built, the top was more of a temporary construction and it was powered by a borrowed Scammel marine petrol engine. If Morrel Mills had taken the lines off a narrow boat they would probably have had some customers. Morrell Venture sat on Trafford Wharf as bare hull until the early 1970's then sold. Renamed Rose of Yorkshire ? I saw it at several rallies in the eighties.                                                                                                                                                        In !967 we were moored at Ladyline Market Drayton, the boat behind us  Talisman had a Harris hull built in 1959/60 the owner Colin Evans a boater since before the war had built the top himself I remember we had a guided tour of the boat. Colin wrote an article in Practical Boat Owner on the build of the hull and the construction of the cabin, I still have a copy.

Just as well Mr H Belhadcit built in 1955. He would probably find that he couldnt get it insured if he built it now because the hull was less than 4mm thick.  :P

Edited by cuthound
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On 21/11/2017 at 18:26, monkeyhanger said:

I think one of these may be moored below Cowley Lock. The stern looks familiar. Do you have any pics of the bows, please?  Just remembered as I typed this--I think the one at Cowley is "Waterways Dolly", or  something like that.

Sorry no bow pictures, we at the time thought they were '"orribles" and ignored them! I know one or two are still about, one appeared in a TV advert setting in 2016.

Edited by Laurence Hogg
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On 14/11/2017 at 09:23, JamesFrance said:

In 1968 and 9. I bought 2 steel hulls built by a man who I think was called Dave Grassing whose main job was with Granada TV.   As I remember they were built at the bottom of the Macclesfield as I collected them from somewhere there using a 6hp outboard on a temporary bracket.   I designed 6 berths into 40 feet and employed someone to do the marine ply cabin tops and interiors.   I think we used water cooled Lister engines.   After that I left the canals until 1997 and had various yachts in the Med.   Unfortunately I don't have any photos from then.

Just noticed this thread so maybe nobody is looking at this now but my dad was Dave Grassing. In the late 60's he and my mum  set up a company called Dami Marine ( it stood for Dave and Midge) to build Lockmaster Steel Hulls, constructed in New Mills. I think they may have made about 25 with some having tops put on in Middlewich, for those that requested one. One or 2 were sailed to Holland . My dad had a full time job but the object of forming the company was to afford their own narrowboat. One or 2 are still around but no idea what happened to my parents boat "Bee Bee" after it was sold around 1978. T  My dad passed away in 2016 and my mother earlier this year but I have not as yet sorted though anything related to their boat building era. 

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4 minutes ago, ChrissyBul said:

Just noticed this thread so maybe nobody is looking at this now but my dad was Dave Grassing. In the late 60's he and my mum  set up a company called Dami Marine ( it stood for Dave and Midge) to build Lockmaster Steel Hulls, constructed in New Mills. I think they may have made about 25 with some having tops put on in Middlewich, for those that requested one. One or 2 were sailed to Holland . My dad had a full time job but the object of forming the company was to afford their own narrowboat. One or 2 are still around but no idea what happened to my parents boat "Bee Bee" after it was sold around 1978. T  My dad passed away in 2016 and my mother earlier this year but I have not as yet sorted though anything related to their boat building era. 

Hi Chrissy and welcome to the forum. I'm sure there would be interest on here if you have any history of your parents boat building.

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