Caldwells windows

[Johny London]

I've been in touch with Caldwells, regarding a problem I have with my windows, but as yet they have been unable to shed any light.

What has been happening (since they were new and fitted to my new boat last year) is that the bottom channels in the extrusions fill up with water from condensation. It then overflows and runs down into the hull of the boat via a tiny gap in the woodwork - I can fix this gap with beading but that is not the problem.

The windows have three holes (left and right) in the channels, with corresponding little covers on the outside to shield from rain, the idea being that any accumulated condensate just runs out of the holes. I'm sure many of you have these windows and know what I mean. But my holes don't work - they are all totally blocked by the rubber seal that sits inside the extrusion.

Caldwells are at a loss - does anyone else have this problem? I suspect the windows are not correctly fitted - possibly the cut outs in the panels of the boat are a tad small and the rubber is pushed down too far when fitted?

Or suggestions, thoughts please

[Nightwatch]

We have Caldwell windows so I know what you are saying. Occasionally I poke a small spike into the holes to ensure they are clear. They clog up with muck. Are you able to poke summat into he hole? 

Caldwells have been helpful in the past.

[Johny London]

No there seems to be rubber in the way I think.

[bizzard]

Poking with a spike or drilling tiny holes in rubber the holes tend to close up when the drill bit or spike is withdrawn. You could burn a hole through it though by heating to almost red a steel rod or spike, 1/2 second or so and neat a hole will be burnt through it that won't close up, blow down it afterwards to blow out any bits.

[bizzard]

The little louver drain cowels on the outside are usually fixed on with a couple of self tapping screws, but sometimes pop riveted on.

[Johny London]

Thanks - I thought of melting through with a soldering iron or something but am wondering why they are like that in this case. The little external covers just unscrew so access is no problem.

[bizzard]

14 minutes ago, Johny London said:

Thanks - I thought of melting through with a soldering iron or something but am wondering why they are like that in this case. The little external covers just unscrew so access is no problem.

I reckon it must be a window frame to window apperture in the cabin side gasket blocking them, where the installer didn't either position the gaskets aligning holes for the drains or didn't bother to make any holes at all. Or maybe its perhaps Sikaflex or Marineflex which sqeezed, spread and blocked the holes when they fitted them.

[Sea Dog]

I have these windows and, like Nightwatch, the holes are open and just need a clear out now and again. I wonder whether a rubber seal has either been placed just a little misaligned or perhaps overtightened such that it has extruded into the holes? I'd attempt to clear it with a drill bit, needle file or similar. If the windows aren't leaking, I see no issue with restoring the drain holes in this way.

[Cheshire cat]

I think I would use the soldering iron as you suggested. The external covers come off easily enough which should provide sufficient access

 

[haggis]

When we had a boat with Caldwell windows, I used to poke a strong cable tie down to clear the path for water to escape. The hole on the outside was not in line with the hole in the inside but a cable tie , if it was strong enough, could be pushed between the two openings. I think the two openings were at least an inch apart. 

haggis

[Tacet]

18 hours ago, Johny London said:

I've been in touch with Caldwells, regarding a problem I have with my windows, but as yet they have been unable to shed any light.

Or suggestions, thoughts please

Are the curtains drawn?

[Tony Brooks]

The glass may be held against the gasket on the inner face of the outside of the frame by "rubber" cord. This is usually only pushed into the top of the channel the glass sits in leaving a gap below so condensation can drain from the inner channel through the hole into the outer channel and then out of the hole in the outside of the outer channel.  If the cord has been pushed fully down to the bottom of its channel then it may well bock the drain holes. On my boat one or two of the window glasses have a habit of dropping in the frame and doing the same thing. The answer there is to put something through the drain and lever the glass up - for a while.

I don't see how the window to cabin side gasket can be the cause, at least on my windows, because its only on the fixing flange (no idea about Caldwells). If may be the gasket the glass seals against on the outside though. If it is and you are sure the glass has not dropped I think I would go with the soldering iron thing.

[adrianh]

Don't try the lever up option without removing the internal O ring filler seal first. I stupidly did and broke the glass. On my old style windows the rubber seal is flush with the inner frame perimeter. Might be worth checking that the correct section seal has been used when manufactured, ask for a small sample to verify. To get the seal out flatten a piece of welding wire and slightly hook the end, slide down the edge of the seal and ease out

[Tony Brooks]

12 hours ago, adrianh said:

Don't try the lever up option without removing the internal O ring filler seal first. I stupidly did and broke the glass. On my old style windows the rubber seal is flush with the inner frame perimeter. Might be worth checking that the correct section seal has been used when manufactured, ask for a small sample to verify. To get the seal out flatten a piece of welding wire and slightly hook the end, slide down the edge of the seal and ease out

I agree there is a danger that the above may happen if you apply too much force or use something that has a point contact with the glass but If you remove the rubber cord what will then hold the glass up while you refit the cord? It demands a suitable lever and a great deal of care.

I intend to try to insert two short pieces of rubber between the bottom of my glass and the frame to hold the glass up.

[LadyG]

13 hours ago, adrianh said:

Don't try the lever up option without removing the internal O ring filler seal first. I stupidly did and broke the glass. On my old style windows the rubber seal is flush with the inner frame perimeter. Might be worth checking that the correct section seal has been used when manufactured, ask for a small sample to verify. To get the seal out flatten a piece of welding wire and slightly hook the end, slide down the edge of the seal and ease out

So i need to add welding wire to list of spares

[Tony Brooks]

No, I use a small flat blade screwdriver. I use the handle of a teaspoon to push the rubber back down.

[adrianh]

Without the seal you can easily lift the glass enough to inject two blogs of silicon for it to rest on in the future. Just need to give the silicon 24 hours to cure before re seating the glass. Trim silicon to make sure water can pass to the drain holes

Edited November 10, 2017 by adrianh

[Johny London]

I had a better look at the problem today, taking off each and every external cover (bank side anyway).

The problem seems to be twofold. Firstly, the rubber seals partially cover the holes (to varying extents) and secondly, there is glass below that (again to varying extents) the glass is dirty black so easy to confuse with the rubber, but the effect is of course the same - anything in the way of the holes causes obstruction of the water flow.

In some instances they are totally blocked, in some there is a partial gap but due to the surface tension effect of the water, there is no drainage.

I did manage to lever the glass up out of the way, not totally but a fair improvement - until of course I let go, then it just sits back down where it was.

It is looking like a design fault to me which I find very surprising, given that ttbomk these are commonly used windows. The only solution I can see is to sacrifice the middle of each set of three holes, jamming something in there permanently to keep the glass up.

Caldwells didn't reply anymore but I'll try them again as I have taken a video. It's a real problem at this time of the year. I did have the same last winter but tbh I had so much else to get on with.

[Tony Brooks]

I think this will be a two man job. Pull the rubber cord out of the aluminium section on the inside of the window and get someone to carefully lever the glass up by the centre hole. Estimate the gap you have under the glass. I would buy some rubber cord of suitable diameter because we have a rubber supplier in Reading but anything like pieces of plastic milk bottle top would do.  I expect the glass will have dropped so lever up again, push the cord or spacer under the glass in two positions well away from the centre, the refit the cord taking care not to push it below the glass and leaving a path for water to reach the drain holes.

I would be wary of using silicon as suggested above because it will take a fair time to set so it can support the glass, may glue the glass to the frame, and could prevent water reaching the drians along the glass channel.

Edited November 13, 2017 by Tony Brooks

[Johny London]

Thanks Tony, that sounds about right - surprised Caldwells didn't suggest it and/or don't seem to be aware of any problem.

The first time the boat builder showed me where to put the water, he opened the cap and the little retaining chain broke - he said "oh they always do that." I remember thinking "well why don't they fix it so it doesn't break the first time you use it?" It seems this kind of approach is endemic in the topsy turvey world of boating

I just wish stuff worked !

[Johny London]

Just an update - Reg (the chairman of Caldwells windows) has very kindly said he will come and take a look. They are almost new and were professionally fitted, but I'm not sure if it will be the fitting or manufacture causing the problem. As adrainh said, could be the wrong rubber seals. I just don't know, but I do expect them to work - after all it is a very basic design (actually I quite like that about them), the top glass bits in the hoppers are just free, and not encumbered by overly complicated mechanisms - you just take them right out when it's hot!

I'll post an update in due course.

[canals are us?]

I was thinking of replacing my single glazed boat windows to double glazed but apart from cost putting me off was the rubbish 1 year manufacture warranty on frame and glass. When your spending 3k you expect a longer guarantee. UK you get the least.

It's the same when buying a UK made electric double oven with ceramic hob, £500 or European 2 year guarantee.

James

[mrsmelly]

14 hours ago, canals are us? said:

I was thinking of replacing my single glazed boat windows to double glazed but apart from cost putting me off was the rubbish 1 year manufacture warranty on frame and glass. When your spending 3k you expect a longer guarantee. UK you get the least.

It's the same when buying a UK made electric double oven with ceramic hob, £500 or European 2 year guarantee.

James

Dont bother double glazing is a gimmick.We have them as they were fitted form new about as usefull as a bow thruster or eco fan. They are ten years old now by channel glaze and still very good frames but d/g is not needed.

[rgreg]

17 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

Dont bother double glazing is a gimmick.We have them as they were fitted form new about as usefull as a bow thruster or eco fan. They are ten years old now by channel glaze and still very good frames but d/g is not needed.

A friend of mine had double glazing fitted and was disappointed that the metal frames still suffered from condensation. I use the simple "cling film"  that attaches to the outer wooden frames and eliminates condensation; the cost is about £12. The downside is that the windows can't be opened so I only cover the front "bus" ones.

[mrsmelly]

2 minutes ago, rgreg said:

A friend of mine had double glazing fitted and was disappointed that the metal frames still suffered from condensation. I use the simple "cling film"  that attaches to the outer wooden frames and eliminates condensation; the cost is about £12. The downside is that the windows can't be opened so I only cover the front "bus" ones.

Yes. The good point of mine is the entire glass lifts out in seconds enabling basicaly side doors at a number of locations. The frames get covered in condensation.