To survey or not to survey

[Bargebuilder]

You may not be aware then, of the difference between the sort of 26ft family yacht of gathering years that an average chap might buy, and the elegant 30ft yachts that call South coast marinas home. 

South coast marinas, the 'popular' ones anyway, are a rarefied environment, much more expensive than many other coastal marinas and way out of the reach of the overwhelming majority of people who enjoy sailing, as too are the 'posh' vessels that reside in them. 

It would be like me saying that all narrowboats are of the elegance and price of the shiny new vessels that adorn the pages of canal magazines, when the reality is that most people are completely satisfied to own and love their 20 year old £30,000 pride and joy. 

 

 

 

[MtB]

1 hour ago, LadyG said:

I can do the sums, the price is already well below valuation. I will not give it away. There has been no interest even when price is not mentioned. Costs are not rising at £2k pa

jo -- Pg Dip Int Mkting, BA, SDDH .

The price is just as likely to rise as to fall,  given that it is the lowest it has been for six years. Conversation closed.

 

Don't be ridicullous, I am not desperate,  the house is not derelict.

 

Pigheadedness is a common trait in narrowboaters. I think you'll do well as a boater.

But you keep mentioning 'valuation'. I dunno about up there but down here a professional valuation comes usually with three supporting comparibles, i.e. three similar properties that have sold locally and recently at similar prices. Without sucha comparibles any 'valuation' is trumped by what the market is telling you. And your locla market is telling you its over-priced. 

[LadyG]

1 hour ago, Richard10002 said:

Where in Scotland is your flat? The UK property market has been on the up since mid 2013, and has perhaps started to show signs of reaching a plateau. Scotland, in general, seems to have been in line with this, so you must be in a very undesirable location to be at the lowest price in 6 years.

On “valuation”, it is merely an opinion. In fact, if it is a valuation by an agent, ( or whatever you have up there), it’s not really a valuation, more a pitch to get your business.

What are the costs rising by if it isn’t £2000 a year?

The fact is that the valuation that you received was/is wrong, or you would have sold.

If you are resigned to your property not being worth enough to fund your boat purchase, it’s a shame. 

My flat has dropped nearly £7K in the last seven years.

I have looked at the prices in this town, and there are only a few flats in this price bracket, so I was surprised that there is no interest. It is the subject of much discussion among the three or four local estate agents. Every three months, in Law,  i am expected to pay for another full valuation, by a specially selected [not by me] surveyer, its £400. 

 The surveyor and the Estate agents "discuss" valuation, and to some extent they themselves are setting the market, but this should be in my favour, however ony the crappiest flats, of which there are too many, are selling, for rental,  to folks who can't afford a mortgage. 

PS Marinas up here are £4000pa for a 28ft boat, more expensive than on the cut ft for foot.

Edited November 6, 2017 by LadyG

[LadyG]

44 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Pigheadedness is a common trait in narrowboaters. I think you'll do well as a boater.

But you keep mentioning 'valuation'. I dunno about up there but down here a professional valuation comes usually with three supporting comparibles, i.e. three similar properties that have sold locally and recently at similar prices. Without sucha comparibles any 'valuation' is trumped by what the market is telling you. And your locla market is telling you its over-priced. 

I don't know about comparables, but looking at the Rightmove information, the valuation looks about right, but no one has shown any legal interest [there are legal formalities before anything happens]. Haggling cannot start till a formal legal interest has been received. 

In the normal way of things i would  just wait till the market recovered, but the clock is ticking......

Anyway it is academic at the moment, there have been two tyre kickers in two months, pretty bad.

Edited November 6, 2017 by LadyG

[MtB]

4 minutes ago, LadyG said:

I don't know about comparables

 

Time you learned then. I thought you knew everything about everything. 

[LadyG]

5 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Time you learned then. I thought you knew everything about everything. 

I do know that every time I want to buy somehing they are as rare as hens teeth and when I want to sell something no one wants to buy. it does not take a PhD to work out how they come to a valuation, particularly with respect to my flat, as there are hundreds of identical flats in the town. I knew what his valuation would be before he came to look!

Edited November 6, 2017 by LadyG

[MtB]

2 minutes ago, LadyG said:

I do know that every time I want to buy somehing they are as rare as hens teeth and when I want to sell something no one wants to buy. it does not take a PhD to work out how they come to a valuation, particularly my flat, as there are hundreds of identical flats in the town.

 

Well there yer go then. On average 1 in 10 properties changes hands every year, so there will be loads of comparables nearby. Look them up on the LR and then call out your 'valuer'. Was he an estate agent, perhaps?

[LadyG]

4 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Well there yer go then. On average 1 in 10 properties changes hands every year, so there will be loads of comparables nearby. Look them up on the LR and then call out your 'valuer'. Was he an estate agent, perhaps?

You don't understand, the law is different only "special" surveyors are acceptable, and they just happen to charge twice as much as the others who are not "accepted" There is nothing wrong with his survey, it is very fair, and the price is on the mark. I did not challenge the survey report, no  point.

Edited November 6, 2017 by LadyG

[MtB]

Just now, LadyG said:

There is nothing wrong with his survey, it is very fair, and the price is on the mark. 

[LadyG]

37 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

The way things are done is different from England, no one has sight of the valuation unless they have some sort of intention to buy, the price guide is well below valuation, this is the way the process starts.

Obviously if someone flashes a big wad of cash, signs on the dotted line, things move much faster,  before he changes his mind.

I think the last two houses I sold took forever,  eight weeks after a buyer viewed, but I did not have to wait two months for any interest. 

Edited November 6, 2017 by LadyG

[MtB]

13 minutes ago, LadyG said:

The way things are done is different from England, no one has sight of the valuation unless they have some sort of intention to buy, the price guide is well below valuation, this is the way the process starts.

Obviously if someone flashes a big wad of cash, signs on the doted line, things move much faster,  before he changes his mind.

I think the last two houses I sold took forever,  eight weeks after a buyer viewed, but I did not have to wait two months for any interest. 

 

For someone who claims to think 'outside the box', I've seen precidous little evidence of your doing this so far.

Rent it out then. And use the rental profit to fund the repayments on a loan to buy the boat. 

No doubt you'll have a string of reasons not to do this, too!!

[LadyG]

11 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

For someone who claims to think 'outside the box', I've seen precidous little evidence of your doing this so far.

Rent it out then. And use the rental profit to fund the repayments on a loan to buy the boat. 

No doubt you'll have a string of reasons not to do this, too!!

I want out of the flat, I never want to see this smalltown again, and I intend to stuff my mattress with lots of spare five pound notes, it will let me sleep soundly in my little country cottage, somewhere between Leeds and Llangollen, Bath and Boroughbridge.

I have considered all the options, been looking for a way out for ten years, just stumbled on the idea of living the lazy lifestyle, now I have [almost] retired.

Boats are OK, I 've been in, on, and around  boats since age 13, that's the easiest part.

Edited November 6, 2017 by LadyG

[cuthound]

As LadyG keeps saying, buying and selling property is a very different process to that in England & Wales.

Which guide to the selling  process here.

https://www.which.co.uk/money/mortgages-and-property/scottish-and-northern-irish-property-systems/guides/scottish-property-system/selling-a-house-in-scotland

[Naughty Cal]

10 minutes ago, cuthound said:

As LadyG keeps saying, buying and selling property is a very different process to that in England & Wales.

Which guide to the selling  process here.

https://www.which.co.uk/money/mortgages-and-property/scottish-and-northern-irish-property-systems/guides/scottish-property-system/selling-a-house-in-scotland

Wherever you are selling though the first step is to market it at a price that attracts buyers.

11 hours ago, LadyG said:

My flat has dropped nearly £7K in the last seven years.

I have looked at the prices in this town, and there are only a few flats in this price bracket, so I was surprised that there is no interest. It is the subject of much discussion among the three or four local estate agents. Every three months, in Law,  i am expected to pay for another full valuation, by a specially selected [not by me] surveyer, its £400. 

 The surveyor and the Estate agents "discuss" valuation, and to some extent they themselves are setting the market, but this should be in my favour, however ony the crappiest flats, of which there are too many, are selling, for rental,  to folks who can't afford a mortgage. 

PS Marinas up here are £4000pa for a 28ft boat, more expensive than on the cut ft for foot.

Which is chicken feed compared to some coastal marinas in the UK.

We were quoted £6k per year for our 25ft boat in Port Solent and that was several years ago now, so no doubt that price will have risen further 

As a comparison, our current mooring is £1.2k for a very nice marina.

[LadyG]

The price

1 hour ago, Naughty Cal said:

Wherever you are selling though the first step is to market it at a price that attracts buyers.

 

At last we are agreed. The guide price was designed to do just that.

I might just think out the box and increase the price for a few weeks in case buyers think it is too cheap! Then put it on as "reduced" at the original price lol.

[MtB]

2 minutes ago, LadyG said:

At last we are agreed. The guide price was designed to do just that.

 

And clearly the designer got it wrong, as it produced no interest.

[Bargebuilder]

1 hour ago, Naughty Cal said:

12 hours ago, LadyG said:

PS Marinas up here are £4000pa for a 28ft boat, more expensive than on the cut ft for foot.

Which is chicken feed compared to some coastal marinas in the UK.

We were quoted £6k per year for our 25ft boat in Port Solent and that was several years ago now, so no doubt that price will have risen further 

Some, being the operative word.......

My word, there wouldn't be the tens of thousands of coastal yachts who's skippers have ordinary and low paid jobs if the exclusive marinas that you highlight were the only option.  

My 28 foot yacht cost £800 per year to berth and I can see from my wheelouse a selection of mud berths and swinging berths that cost between £55 and £200 per year due to their lack of amenities. Just look in the Practical Boatowner magazine for a list of UK coastal marinas and their prices.

It would be a real shame if your experience of lumpy boat ownership put 'ordinary' folks off from getting involved, since:

You can buy a nice, family 4 berth sailing yacht with an inboard diesel engine for well under £10k, mooring it needn't be expensive, there is no river/canal licence to buy, there is no BSS certificate to pay for and there is no need for haul-out and blacking every two or three years.

There is no need to pay for haul-outs at all, as you just lean the boat against a post and wait for the tide to go down. You can then scrape off the hull and replace the anodes.

Just in case, on a canal forum, anyone reading might be interested in coastal cruising, the boats and the costs of ownership can be a fraction of that of narrowboat ownership.

Like with all things, you can buy shiny new and very expensive boats from very expensive marinas, but you don't have to, and most of the 60 odd thousand owners of coastal cruising yachts don't.

 

 

 

 

[Naughty Cal]

3 hours ago, LadyG said:

The price

At last we are agreed. The guide price was designed to do just that.

I might just think out the box and increase the price for a few weeks in case buyers think it is too cheap! Then put it on as "reduced" at the original price lol.

No we don't. Or your price would have attracted some buyers.

[jammin1620]

On 04/11/2017 at 22:21, Bargebuilder said:

I have commissioned a number of surveys over the years and although they may give peace of mind, in my experience, it would be unwise to put all of your faith in them. Surveyors can and do miss things and attempting to get satisfaction from them or their insurance companies when things do go wrong is almost impossible.

The hull thickness survey is probably the most critical element of the procedure, and as already mentioned, that is only as good as the number of test areas probed, and a degree of luck in finding any thin bits.

Might hiring or even buying the hull thickness equipment be an idea worth looking into? Just think what a thorough job you would do if you were doing the survey yourself.

 

 

 

I would like to confirm what bargebuidler says here. I recently bought a boat. It had been looked after its whole life and blacked regularly.  It looked unloved but the boat in question was a beauty. With some negotiation I managed to get  a survey done. It wasnt a written one and was done as a favour but nonetheless the relevant thickness tests were done. Maybe not as many as I would have preferred but you get what you pay for...

The readings came back favourable for as 30yr old boat and I noticed the wear edge  (chine) was near gone In places so i negotiate a price with the vendor based on findings.  She comes home perfectly a trip from Marple to northern bcn. Only when I start having a tidy up and clean up some floor I disturbed a rust patch. Long story short I found canal water weeping through the hull! It subsequently went in for a new base plate and we found another spot where I could see through. (Out of the water I might add!) It was close to the centre of the base plate. Further than I've seen most surveyors venture.

With all the will in the world and a fantastic  surveyor you will find most things.  But you can't check everything.  And no surveyor is going to crawl around under the boat covered in canal scronk in a predictably wet dock area and test every inch. So beware and be prepared. Don't take it as read that everything's golden. 

On the lighter side there is always light at the end of these tunnels as these issues can always be fixed. For a price.....

[ditchcrawler]

29 minutes ago, jammin1620 said:

I would like to confirm what bargebuidler says here. I recently bought a boat. It had been looked after its whole life and blacked regularly.  It looked unloved but the boat in question was a beauty. With some negotiation I managed to get  a survey done. It wasnt a written one and was done as a favour but nonetheless the relevant thickness tests were done. Maybe not as many as I would have preferred but you get what you pay for...

The readings came back favourable for as 30yr old boat and I noticed the wear edge  (chine) was near gone In places so i negotiate a price with the vendor based on findings.  She comes home perfectly a trip from Marple to northern bcn. Only when I start having a tidy up and clean up some floor I disturbed a rust patch. Long story short I found canal water weeping through the hull! It subsequently went in for a new base plate and we found another spot where I could see through. (Out of the water I might add!) It was close to the centre of the base plate. Further than I've seen most surveyors venture.

With all the will in the world and a fantastic  surveyor you will find most things.  But you can't check everything.  And no surveyor is going to crawl around under the boat covered in canal scronk in a predictably wet dock area and test every inch. So beware and be prepared. Don't take it as read that everything's golden. 

On the lighter side there is always light at the end of these tunnels as these issues can always be fixed. For a price.....

So did they lift or pull you out in the end and have you got her back home and the inside put back together. We were chatting in Stourport while you were waiting to come out.

[Sea Dog]

11 hours ago, jammin1620 said:

 It looked unloved but...

If something looks unloved, it's probably unloved - or at least not being properly cared for. In my experience, neglected kit frequently looks neglected whilst lovingly maintained kit usually looks like it's being lovingly maintained. Just an observation. 

[jammin1620]

They did lift me out in the end. Took them a while.. she's now all back in the water rebottomed blacked and a 75mm upstand. Back home and back together. And even a new kitchen installed. 

I have to say it was a stressful time with the boatyard dragging their heals constantly. 

However once again the boating community yourself included made me a complete stranger feel welcome and not like a fish out of water.  It clarifies for me what a wonderul bunch us boaters are. 

[ditchcrawler]

1 minute ago, jammin1620 said:

They did lift me out in the end. Took them a while.. she's now all back in the water rebottomed blacked and a 75mm upstand. Back home and back together. And even a new kitchen installed. 

I have to say it was a stressful time with the boatyard dragging their heals constantly. 

However once again the boating community yourself included made me a complete stranger feel welcome and not like a fish out of water.  It clarifies for me what a wonderul bunch us boaters are. 

Its good to see her looking how I remember her

[Sea Dog]

2 hours ago, jammin1620 said:

 

You sure do have yourself a lovely looking boat now!

[jam]

8 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

Its good to see her looking how I remember her

I will second that, a good looking craft again.