To survey or not to survey

[MichaelG]

Whilst it is true that a survey will have terms and conditions which seek to limit the surveyors liability I am convinced that a survey is money well spent. Unless you are completely confident in your own level of skill and expertise to do it yourself and/or the boat is very cheap. A survey won't guarantee you are not buying a lemon but in my humble opinion will significantly reduce the risk that you are. I have had four fibreglass boats surveyed in the past and in every case the survey threw up issues that required attention that I hadn't spotted myself. None prevented me buying the boats but in each case I was able to negotiate a price reduction to go towards resolving the issues. I did buy a couple of boats without survey but only because they were very cheap so the financial risk wasn't great.   

[Dav and Pen]

I had never had a survey until buying on the continent. We brought a NB of bwb which already had an hole in the chine angle which was stopped by a block of wood being wedged by a broom handle under the gunwale. So we knew it was pretty thin. One we brought from willow wren had a hole in the counter from which we could see  light when we inspected it, it had also been doubled on the sides which accounted for the rust on the inside.

our insurance companies never seemed to be pushing for surveys only the safety certificates.

when buying our barge in Antwerp a proper surveyor was engaged who did over 180 ultra sounding of the hull and these showed up some thin places being under the 4mm which insurance companies look for. Part of the contract of sale gives the option of walking away or for the seller to put things right which happened in this case. The insurers need a survey every 7years and we have used the same surveyor for these and I am always impressed how thorough he is using a trolly to lay under the boat. His normal work is big barges and ships for which real qualifications are required.

[Naughty Cal]

A Good surveyor will always find enough faults to haggle on the price and get at least the cost of the survey back.

Our boat was 5 years old when we bought it. The surveyor found several thousands of pounds worth of repairs. The boat was a stock boat so they all got fixed.

We know far more now then we knew back then but we would still survey any boat we buy.

[LadyG]

As long as the vendor agrees to negotiate after the survey, but will he pay all reasonable ie essential repair costs, I don't want to haggle, haggling tends to be distasteful if the vendor is unreasonable.. 

I'm afraid if I surveyed a five year old boat and it was needing several thousand pounds spent, I would walk away. In fact any boat needing a lot of repairs, I would walk  away, to me that looks like a lemon.

To some extend I might offer based on no survey, it all depends, on my situation, on their price, but i would not be offering on something which I was worried about, regardless of survey/not.

Edited November 5, 2017 by LadyG

[Naughty Cal]

10 minutes ago, LadyG said:

As long as the vendor agrees to negotiate after the survey, but will he pay all reasonable ie essential repair costs, I don't want to haggle, haggling tends to be distasteful if the vendor is unreasonable.. 

I'm afraid if I surveyed a five year old boat and it was needing several thousand pounds spent, I would walk away. In fact any boat needing a lot of repairs, I would walk  away, to me that looks like a lemon.

The several thousand was not a lot percentage wise compared to the cost of the boat.

And with lumpy water boats several thousand is often small fry!

Anyway. It cost us nothing extra as the repairs are all carried out prior to us picking up the boat. It was a stock boat and the deal was anything the survey picked up they would fix.

As it happens it didn't pick everything up but more than enough to justify the £500 costs. 

EtA: haggling is all part of buying something. We very rarely pay full price for cars, boats, houses etc.

Edited November 5, 2017 by Naughty Cal

[LadyG]

I can't be bothered, the price I ask is generally the price I value something at, if valued it at less, I' d offer it for less. there are always people wanting something for nothing. I am talking about selling good stuff.

Edited November 5, 2017 by LadyG

[Alan de Enfield]

35 minutes ago, Naughty Cal said:

A Good surveyor will always find enough faults to haggle on the price and get at least the cost of the survey back.

Agreed - in the majority of cases, however, I am referring  to the surveyor who finds nothing wrong and gives it a clean bill of health - it subsequently sinks days after you have paid your money.

I am referring  to the surveyor who finds nothing wrong and gives it a clean bill of health but subsequently admits (points out the T&Cs) that he will not inspect anything that requires tools, lifting of carpets, or opening cupboard doors to view.

I am referring  to the surveyor who finds nothing wrong and gives it a clean bill of health but subsequently admits (points out the T&Cs) that the survey is only valid whilst he is in attendance, as someone could come and drill a hole thru the bottom, or could have filled the gearbox with water once has left site.

[Naughty Cal]

2 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Agreed - in the majority of cases, however, I am referring  to the surveyor who finds nothing wrong and gives it a clean bill of health - it subsequently sinks days after you have paid your money.

I am referring  to the surveyor who finds nothing wrong and gives it a clean bill of health but subsequently admits (points out the T&Cs) that he will not inspect anything that requires tools, lifting of carpets, or opening cupboard doors to view.

I am referring  to the surveyor who finds nothing wrong and gives it a clean bill of health but subsequently admits (points out the T&Cs) that the survey is only valid whilst he is in attendance, as someone could come and drill a hole thru the bottom, or could have filled the gearbox with water once has left site.

That surveyor isn't a good surveyor and there in lies the difference.

We know who we will use in future and it isn't the one we used when we bought our boat!

We have had to use him subsequently and he is a good lad. Tells it as it is. Wouldn't want him to survey a boat we were selling that's for sure.

7 minutes ago, LadyG said:

I can't be bothered, the price I ask is generally the price I value something at, if valued it at less, I' d offer it for less. there are always people wanting something for nothing. I am talking about selling good stuff.

What you value something at is irrelevant. 

What people are willing to pay is its true value.

I could value my house at £250k. Doesn't make it worth that.

[cuthound]

Some surveyors are morev thorough than others. 

I used Craig Allen, and made sure I was present for the survey. Not only did I learn a lot about the boat and it's systems, but he removed skirting to inspect the condition and type of the insulation, the wiring and the pipework behind them. He also opened the weedhatch to check for corrosion as well as checking the operation of everything on board.  He threw in a free BSC, found a fault that enabled me to knock £2k off the price and then gave me a small rebate because the boat was cleaner this most, so he didn't have to lie in an oily bilge.

Top man who I would use again. 

[LadyG]

15 minutes ago, Naughty Cal said:

 

What you value something at is irrelevant. 

What people are willing to pay is its true value.

I could value my house at £250k. Doesn't make it worth that.

My valuation takes in to account the market value, eg my flat is not selling at the surveyors valuation, I know the local market value, so I have my own valuation. There is about 10 % difference.  No one has made an offer, I am not going to put it on the market at 20% below a surveyors valuation, to me that is giving it away.

My van is valued at £1000, it is in premium working condition, I will not sell it for £1k, but no one is interested in buying it even at market value. I just have to wait for people who want the goods, and can afford them.

Edited November 5, 2017 by LadyG

[Naughty Cal]

1 minute ago, LadyG said:

My valuation takes in to account the market value, eg my flat is not selling at the surveyors valuation, I know the local market value, so I have my own valuation. There is about 10 % difference.  No one has made an offer, I am not going to put it on the market at 20% below a surveyors valuation, to me that is giving it away.

My van is valued at £1000, it is in premium working condition, I will not sell it for £1k, but no one is interested in buying it even at market value. I just have to wait for people who want the goods, and can afford them.

And there in is why you have not bought a boat yet. 

[LadyG]

23 minutes ago, Naughty Cal said:

And there in is why you have not bought a boat yet. 

No one is buying flats: the Estate Agent handled the survey and the guide price, nothing to do with me. I pay them to advise and do the marketing, they are a marketing company.. There is no interest. No one is more frustrated than i am. 

Edited November 5, 2017 by LadyG

[Naughty Cal]

18 minutes ago, LadyG said:

No one is buying flats: the Estate Agent handled the survey and the guide price, nothing to do with me. I pay them to advise and do the work, they are a marketing company.. There is no interest. No one is more frustrated than i am. 

They are buying flats. Just depends where yours is.

We are designing and building more flats now then we have done in the last ten years. Developers won't build them if no-one is buying.

[LadyG]

14 minutes ago, Naughty Cal said:

They are buying flats. Just depends where yours is.

We are designing and building more flats now then we have done in the last ten years. Developers won't build them if no-one is buying.

I do understand economics, I have a P-Grad degree in Marketing

http://www.investopedia.com/university/economics/economics3.asp

Someone is building social housing, so we are importing social misfits, the unemployable and the druggies. These factors depress the value of private housing.

Edited November 5, 2017 by LadyG

[Naughty Cal]

7 minutes ago, LadyG said:

I do understand economics, I have a P-Grad degree in Marketing

http://www.investopedia.com/university/economics/economics3.asp

So why are you struggling to sell your flat and buy a boat?

If you understand it that much it should be child's play?

Seems studying something isn't quite the same as real life doesn't it?

Fancy That!

[LadyG]

3 minutes ago, Naughty Cal said:

So why are you struggling to sell your flat and buy a boat?

If you understand it that much it should be child's play?

Seems studying something isn't quite the same as real life doesn't it?

Fancy That!

I am not the Chancellor of the Exchequer. 

Do you think I should sell my flat 20% below market value,  when the market is at its lowest ebb for 10 years and buy a boat which is at its highest flow for three years?

Edited November 5, 2017 by LadyG

[Naughty Cal]

3 minutes ago, LadyG said:

I understand the economics, but I am not the Chancellor of the Exchequer.

You don't need to be. Most other people manage. 

[LadyG]

1 minute ago, Naughty Cal said:

You don't need to be. Most other people manage. 

Yes, those who live in t'South. if you happen to live in an area of increasing deprivation and high unemployment, your options are limited.

Edited November 5, 2017 by LadyG

[Naughty Cal]

Just now, LadyG said:

Yes, those who live in t'South.

Not necessarily.  We lift int North where it is much easier.

[LadyG]

You  think Leeds is t'North lol.

[Naughty Cal]

8 minutes ago, LadyG said:

You  think Leeds is t'North lol.

No. We don't live in Leeds and we work on jobs much further North than that. 

Current most northern job is Port Appin. 

Edited November 5, 2017 by Naughty Cal

[LadyG]

So, go to an unspoilt area,  buy cheap land, and stuff it full of modern housing, might make you a profit, but it won't  make you many friends in the local community.

Edited November 5, 2017 by LadyG

[Dyertribe]

26 minutes ago, LadyG said:

I am not the Chancellor of the Exchequer. 

Do you think I should sell my flat 20% below market value,  when the market is at its lowest ebb for 10 years and buy a boat which is at its highest flow for three years?

Market value is what someone is prepared to pay for something, surely?

If no one is buying then the property is overvalued.

[Naughty Cal]

1 minute ago, LadyG said:

So, go to a beautifull area buy cheap land, and stuff it full of modern housing, might make you a profit, but it won't  make you many friends in the local community.

Not my problem. I design it not buy it or sell it.

[LadyG]

1 minute ago, Dyertribe said:

Market value is what someone is prepared to pay for something, surely?

If no one is buying then the property is overvalued.

or there is  zero demand.

In the case of housing, I assume the  [RICS] valuation relates to the finance which a bank/building society will lend  on.

Edited November 5, 2017 by LadyG