Jo Green Posted November 4, 2017 Report Share Posted November 4, 2017 Hello, we have an old Kabola, the E7 model, on our boat. We have yet to get it running. We know that the diesel is reaching the regulator fine and the boiler lights but it burns out very quickly, after a few minutes. When I look at the parts inside the boiler and compare with the photos in the instruction manual, it looks like there might be parts missing. Can anyone with experience of using one of these boilers advise? photos below comparing our boiler with the pictures in the manual. Many thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LEO Posted November 4, 2017 Report Share Posted November 4, 2017 (edited) The only part missing is the sealing 'rope'. I have purchased some from Karunda and tried to fit it to an ODE4 but without success. The fire works without it and I checked with a Karunda recommended fitter who said it was not needed. Your fire needs a good clean, hoover out and check the carb. carefully especially the filter (see KK's guide), sounds as if you have some oil supply problems. Take care when cleaning the burner pot - don't damage the thermal shunt where in projects into the combustion chamber - the fire won't run if this is broken. Check the seal around the oil inlet, the colour variation on the exterior of the burner pot (pic 4) is unusual. They are good units and when set up properly burn happily. L, Edited November 4, 2017 by LEO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jo Green Posted November 4, 2017 Author Report Share Posted November 4, 2017 Thank you Leo. That's really useful. Hopefully we'll have it running soon. Do you know if this little plate on top of the catalyst is necessary? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LEO Posted November 4, 2017 Report Share Posted November 4, 2017 3 minutes ago, Jo Green said: Thank you Leo. That's really useful. Hopefully we'll have it running soon. Do you know if this little plate on top of the catalyst is necessary? KK has run these units without a catalyst so it should run without the plate..........you can get new cats. from Karunda but they are about £80. I do think you have problems with fuel supply, have you checked the filter?. I suspect someone has 'modified' the ring '12' to make re-fitting it easier and sit 'flat' they should have a small 'lip' I got a new one from Karunda last year - not too expensive. I have had my OD4 for 12 years now and only just learned the secret of trouble free lighting it - use less meths, make sure there is enough fuel in the bottom of the burner pot and don't keep lifting the lid to see if the fire is Ok. L. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jo Green Posted November 4, 2017 Author Report Share Posted November 4, 2017 Thanks Leo. Do you have a link to KK's video. I can't seem to find a member with that username. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cuthound Posted November 4, 2017 Report Share Posted November 4, 2017 How long has it been since it was last used? If it has been several years, the oil in the regulator can evaporate, gunning up the tiny slot in the regulator through which the oil drips into the burner pot. My OD4 stove hadn't been lit for 7 years and tbe inside oftheregulator was covered in a sticky film of oil diesel. I ended up using brake cleaner to remove it. After some initial problems with it over fuelling, cured by carefully adjusting the high flame setting, it has worked perfectly and starts easily using a 50p piece sized pool of oil in the base and 2 capfuls of meths. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WotEver Posted November 4, 2017 Report Share Posted November 4, 2017 1 hour ago, Jo Green said: Thanks Leo. Do you have a link to KK's video. I can't seem to find a member with that username. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jo Green Posted November 5, 2017 Author Report Share Posted November 5, 2017 Hello, One thing I forgot to mention- we never saw the thermal shunt supplying fuel. It stayed dry and seemingly untouched by diesel each time we lit it even when we had the button of the fuel protection device depressed. Should fuel have been dripping from this nozzle? Working on the theory that this pipe could be blocked we sought to clean it out but unfortunately broke it. (See picture). We've established that the fuel is flowing into the regulator fine from the daytank and the filters aren't blocked. The regulator is definitely working and allowing fuel to flow through. Any advice? Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WotEver Posted November 5, 2017 Report Share Posted November 5, 2017 That looks like a thermocouple to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LEO Posted November 6, 2017 Report Share Posted November 6, 2017 Err no, this unit only operates by expansion to keep the fuel supply valve open. It's temperature sensitive and needs heat to open the valve. If the flame goes out it will shut off the valve, stopping fuel flowing into the burner pot. Spares are available from Karunda. The fuel drips into the burner pot much lower down, there is a pipe from the carb. connecting to this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cuthound Posted November 6, 2017 Report Share Posted November 6, 2017 As others have explained that is the thermocouple, which is the flame failure device. It needs holding in for 30-90 seconds after the stove is lit so that fuel can flow until the thermocouple is hot enough to stay open on its own. The fuel drops into the bottom of the stove, near the "L" shaped plunger, which is vigorously pulled in and out and twisted at the same time occasionally, to clear burnt crud to allow oil to enter the stove. If you take out the catalyst, turn the regulator to setting 2 and press the thermocouple overide, you should see oil entering and gradually flowing over the floor of the stove. When the pool of oil is about the size of a 50p piece, release the thermocouple overide and add 2 capfuls of meths to the pool of oil. Put the catalyst back into position and drop a lit match in and wait until the flames begin to die off. Press the thermocouple overide for 30-90 seconds, then release it. The stove should stay lit. After 15 minutes turn the regulator to the desired position (usually between 1&3) and away you go. It is an easy DIY job to change the thermocouple if necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jo Green Posted November 6, 2017 Author Report Share Posted November 6, 2017 Thank you. I've ordered a new thermocouple from Kuranda. Hopefully when that arrives and is fitted we might get it lit. I think there is too much of a build up of soot and oil in the bottom of the burner pot so need to get that sorted too. Cuthound- we have no markings on the regulator as it's old and worn. Whereabouts is position 2, do you know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cuthound Posted November 6, 2017 Report Share Posted November 6, 2017 Give me 10 minutes and I will go on the boat and take a photo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jo Green Posted November 6, 2017 Author Report Share Posted November 6, 2017 Great. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cuthound Posted November 6, 2017 Report Share Posted November 6, 2017 The regulator turns anti-clockwise from off through "pilot" then 1-6. There is some resistance to overcome from off to pilot, then it moves smoothly. I find anything over setting 4 gives increasingly yellow flames, however in practice setting 1 or 2 cope with sub zero temperatures, giving internal boat temperatures between 23°C and 29°C. I dont know how hot it would ultimately get on higher settings as 29°C is too hot for me in a 60 foot narrow boat. Stick with it, when working properly these are fantastic little stoves, much cleaner and more easily controlled than wood or coal fired ones. At the current diesel cost of about 60p per litre, mine costs about £24 per week when left on 24/7, so about the same as two bags of good quality coal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jo Green Posted November 10, 2017 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2017 Thank you for all your help. We’re working on it tonight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jo Green Posted November 11, 2017 Author Report Share Posted November 11, 2017 Hello, the Kabola is working and bringing much needed heat! We are over the moon! One more question- the main radiator is only hot at the bottom so presumably needs bleeding. With a pressurised system can I just go ahead and bleed to radiator? The last system I had (a mikuni) had a header tank so I could easily add more water to the system. How does it work with a sealed and pressurised system? Thanks in advance, Jo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LEO Posted November 11, 2017 Report Share Posted November 11, 2017 Good news, I'm surprised you have not got an expansion tank on the system, I would check it carefully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cuthound Posted November 11, 2017 Report Share Posted November 11, 2017 3 hours ago, Jo Green said: Hello, the Kabola is working and bringing much needed heat! We are over the moon! One more question- the main radiator is only hot at the bottom so presumably needs bleeding. With a pressurised system can I just go ahead and bleed to radiator? The last system I had (a mikuni) had a header tank so I could easily add more water to the system. How does it work with a sealed and pressurised system? Thanks in advance, Jo Great news about the Kabola. With a sealed and pressurised system, the pressure will force small amounts of air out. This will result in a pressure drop for the system. If the pressure has dropped too low, you will need to refill the system by attaching a hose, connected a CRT water tap or other pressurised source of water, to the fill point on the system (usually two taps in series aka as double check valve) and filling until the system pressure gauge shows the correct pressure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jo Green Posted November 26, 2017 Author Report Share Posted November 26, 2017 Hi, Thanks for all your previous help. We currently have the Kabola running. It’s easy to light and runs well, heating three radiators in the boat. Radiator one is small and the highest in the system. (See pic 1) It sits in the engine room, near the Kabola. Radiator two is larger than the other two put together and sits midway down the boat. Radiator three is small and towards the bow of the boat. Radiator one and three heat up quickly from top to bottom and seemingly have no air inside. Radiator two is quite obviously only half filled with water. You can clearly feel the heat ends about half way up. We have studied the system and we think we’ve found an expansion tank (see pic 2); a pressure relief valve (see pic 3); a temp and pressure gauge (see pic 4) and seemingly no fill up point. (Possible fill points- see pics 5, 6, 7.) The pressure gauge indicator never leaves zero whether the boiler is running or not but the plumbers tape where it connects to the Kabola looks new and the gauge looks like the newest part of the system. (I’m hesitant to believe it’s not working.) Please excuse the slighty rambling description. I’m trying to communicate everything as clearly as possible. Is it possible, given that the system seems to be only 60% full of water, that the pressure gauge is working fine but there simply isn’t any pressure in the system? We can’t locate any obvious fill up point (certainly not two check valves in a row.) What would the risks be in seeing if radiator 2 wants to bleed air? Your advice and help is much appreciated. Jo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rusty69 Posted November 26, 2017 Report Share Posted November 26, 2017 Im no plumber, but isn't your prv one of those auto air vent thingies? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan_fincher Posted November 26, 2017 Report Share Posted November 26, 2017 What is shown in Picture 5 is surely a 3 BAR pressure relieve valve. As Rusty says, Picture 3 is, I believe, an automatic vent valve. My E5 boiler had a PRV directly mounted low down on the boiler, and sales material I have seen implied it was an original fitment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WotEver Posted November 26, 2017 Report Share Posted November 26, 2017 @Mike the Boilerman? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon12345 Posted November 27, 2017 Report Share Posted November 27, 2017 Pic 7 looks like the fill point. The cap on the end will remove to attach the hose. Before removing though it looks like you may have to turn the valve off on the top to stop water coming out. A normal fill valve will shut this off automatically It doesn't look like a standard fill valve though so a close up pic would help. Pic 2 Is an expansion vessel/tank Pic 3 Auto air vent Pic 4 Temp and pressure gauge Pic 5 Pressure relief valve. I would run a pipe from this to a safer point. If this ever activates hot water will come out. Also if the black knob is turned by someone accidentally they might get a shock. Pic 6 Is a lockshield Radiator valve. used for adjusting the flow of water through the radiator. Don't touch these can leak if messed with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jo Green Posted November 27, 2017 Author Report Share Posted November 27, 2017 Hi, thanks for your responses. Very useful information. See below photos of what may be the fill point. Any thoughts? Many thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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