Painting my baseplate

[Bromleyxphil]

Hi guys I am going to get into the boat and paint the baseplate and sides up to about  one foot with two coats of rustoleum paint https://www.rawlinspaints.com/home/metal-paints/direct-to-metal-paints/530-rust-oleum-combicolor.html I intend the block paving ballast to go on top.  Now comes the slightly controversial bit, I intend then laying a thin layer of cellotex type insulation on top of that then the boards to a distance of 10mm to the sides of the boat.  I will get the foam insulation sprayed right onto the floorboards in effect sealing the bilge from the damp air in the cabin above.  I have asked the builder to fit some vents at the front piped down to the bilge and I will cut a hole for a bilge pump and a vent at the back of the boat which will be sealed to the back of the fridge with a high level vent to outside (possibly assisted with a computer fan wired into the fridge compressor.

Before you all think I am just lighting the blue touch paper

The thinking behind this is :-

The whole area shouldn’t come into contact with the wet, warm air we produce above.

The whole area should stay at a pretty constant temperature below the water so not be prone to condensation.

There will be some fresh air transfer as the fridge will draw cool air from underneath the floor.

If we have a leak in the cabin it will be visible quickly.

Puts hard hat on and watches thoughtfully.

Phil

 

 

[mrsmelly]

When I fitted a new shell I treated the entire inside baseplate and up to gunwhale height with copius amounts of waxoyl sprayed on. This may have been effective but I wouldn't know as I sold the boat quite quickly. Good stuff tho waxoyl.

[cuthound]

Given that you cannot guarantee there will be no leaks into the bilge in the future, and that condensation will also form within the bilge, particularly if it is not well ventilated, I would ensure you build bilge access points into the floor.

One should be as close to the back of the cabin as possible, as this is where any water will collect.

[system 4-50]

1 hour ago, Bromleyxphil said:

Hi guys I am going to get into the boat and paint the baseplate and sides up to about  one foot with two coats of rustoleum paint https://www.rawlinspaints.com/home/metal-paints/direct-to-metal-paints/530-rust-oleum-combicolor.html I intend the block paving ballast to go on top.  Now comes the slightly controversial bit, I intend then laying a thin layer of cellotex type insulation on top of that then the boards to a distance of 10mm to the sides of the boat.  I will get the foam insulation sprayed right onto the floorboards in effect sealing the bilge from the damp air in the cabin above.  I have asked the builder to fit some vents at the front piped down to the bilge and I will cut a hole for a bilge pump and a vent at the back of the boat which will be sealed to the back of the fridge with a high level vent to outside (possibly assisted with a computer fan wired into the fridge compressor.

Before you all think I am just lighting the blue touch paper

The thinking behind this is :-

The whole area shouldn’t come into contact with the wet, warm air we produce above. 

The whole area should stay at a pretty constant temperature below the water so not be prone to condensation.

There will be some fresh air transfer as the fridge will draw cool air from underneath the floor.

Where will that air come from?  All air contains water to some degree. The important bit is the temperature difference between the air and the surfaces it comes into contact with. Constant is not the critical bit.

If we have a leak in the cabin it will be visible quickly.

Puts hard hat on and watches thoughtfully.

Phil

( I have sprayfoamed my cabin bilge. )

 

 

[Bromleyxphil]

Did you sprayfoam on top of or underneath the bricks?

have you documented the process anywhere, I would be very interested in reading it.

phil

[Bromleyxphil]

Sorry System 4-50 I see you have already answered me on my previous thread 

. Can’t believe it’s a year and I am still thinking the floor through.  I am further on though as the boat is due in January.......I hope.

[BWM]

One concern I would have is wether the way you plan to do this will reduce headroom, with a layer of ballast, insulation, wood and then sprayfoam-this sounds quite a lot. 

[blackrose]

Isn't Rustoleum basically the same as Hammerite? If so I wouldn't use it in the bilges. I only speak from personal experience having used it in my engine room. It isn't really up to the job.

[ditchcrawler]

2 hours ago, blackrose said:

Isn't Rustoleum basically the same as Hammerite? If so I wouldn't use it in the bilges. I only speak from personal experience having used it in my engine room. It isn't really up to the job.

Interesting, We have just been blacked and while paying the bill I got into conversation with both the drydock owner and a chap who runs a small hire fleet, about 6 or 8 boats. The hire fleet guy said he experimented on his boats using standard black after pressure washing, standard black after rust converter treatment and cleaning off the water line and painting with Hammerite followed by black. The next year he found no visible difference in the first two, but the hammeriite came out very well and was still in good condition. Whether it was all bull I don't know

[Bromleyxphil]

On 11/4/2017 at 12:16, ditchcrawler said:

Interesting, We have just been blacked and while paying the bill I got into conversation with both the drydock owner and a chap who runs a small hire fleet, about 6 or 8 boats. The hire fleet guy said he experimented on his boats using standard black after pressure washing, standard black after rust converter treatment and cleaning off the water line and painting with Hammerite followed by black. The next year he found no visible difference in the first two, but the hammeriite came out very well and was still in good condition. Whether it was all bull I don't know

I must admit the Hammerite covered with blacking makes sense to me as the Hammerite wont be affected by the diesel in the canal.  I have always had good experience with Hammerite but have a friend who runs a truck fleet hauling road salt who swears that Rustolium is a stronger product.  

 

On 11/4/2017 at 09:26, blackrose said:

Isn't Rustoleum basically the same as Hammerite? If so I wouldn't use it in the bilges. I only speak from personal experience having used it in my engine room. It isn't really up to the job.

What product would you recommend for engine room and bilge?

[WotEver]

6 minutes ago, Bromleyxphil said:

What product would you recommend for engine room and bilge?

Danboline usually works well. 

[Flyboy]

On 04/11/2017 at 09:26, blackrose said:

Isn't Rustoleum basically the same as Hammerite? If so I wouldn't use it in the bilges. I only speak from personal experience having used it in my engine room. It isn't really up to the job.

The only Rustoleum I've used is Metal Primer, it's like red oxide only better. It's widely used in building steelwork. Nothing like Hammerite. They make a whole range of protective coatings.

http://www.rust-oleum.eu/metalpaints

Edited November 5, 2017 by Flyboy

[Giant]

There is some logic to isolating the bilge space from the cabin - doing so keeps cold air from the bilge reaching the cabin, and wet air from the cabin reaching the bilge.

Shutting it off too completely is not smart, though. You need some ventilation of the bilge space to dissipate moisture that does get in there, whether by spills or condensation or leakage of wet air from the cabin. Otherwise moisture will accumulate.

The smart way I've seen this done is to have ventilation ducts running up from the bilge space at both ends of the boat, opening directly to the outside, with no connection to the cabin. A small 12V fan at one end will help to gently circulate air with negligible power consumption. This is especially important if the bilge space is very shallow as it will be in a narrowboat.

[Bromleyxphil]

8 hours ago, Giant said:

There is some logic to isolating the bilge space from the cabin - doing so keeps cold air from the bilge reaching the cabin, and wet air from the cabin reaching the bilge.

Shutting it off too completely is not smart, though. You need some ventilation of the bilge space to dissipate moisture that does get in there, whether by spills or condensation or leakage of wet air from the cabin. Otherwise moisture will accumulate.

The smart way I've seen this done is to have ventilation ducts running up from the bilge space at both ends of the boat, opening directly to the outside, with no connection to the cabin. A small 12V fan at one end will help to gently circulate air with negligible power consumption. This is especially important if the bilge space is very shallow as it will be in a narrowboat.

This is my plan but I may not have explained it very well

 

On 01/11/2017 at 14:06, Bromleyxphil said:

I will get the foam insulation sprayed right onto the floorboards in effect sealing the bilge from the damp air in the cabin above.  I have asked the builder to fit some vents at the front piped down to the bilge and I will cut a hole for a bilge pump and a vent at the back of the boat which will be sealed to the back of the fridge with a high level vent to outside (possibly assisted with a computer fan wired into the fridge compressor.

 

 

This is still the way I intend to proceed as no one has convinced me it won’t work.

Phil

[Giant]

Sorry Phil, I think I managed to completely skip over that sentence in your original post. I think you're on the right lines there.

As to paint though, you want to get the best possible protection on there while you have the chance, as it will be a huge pain to get at once the floor is in and everything on top.

I would be going for a good quality two pack epoxy and nothing less.

[BWM]

On 05/11/2017 at 21:49, Bromleyxphil said:

I must admit the Hammerite covered with blacking makes sense to me as the Hammerite wont be affected by the diesel in the canal.  I have always had good experience with Hammerite but have a friend who runs a truck fleet hauling road salt who swears that Rustolium is a stronger product.  

 

What product would you recommend for engine room and bilge?

Teamac do a specific bilge paint, fairly inexpensive and easy to apply. Four years on, mine is still looking good, even in the harsher engine room environment.