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Broken pump out, whats normal and what isn't?


SilverComet

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12 hours ago, OldGoat said:

Reasons that folks give for disliking pump-outs:-

  • They (can) smell
  • You can see the contents
  • You have to pay to empty them
  • If badly designed and laid out there can be leaks and blockages

We've been on our boat for 5 months now. For the first 2 months our pumpout system did smell at times. Soon was apparent that the smell was when the tank was getting full. We changed to getting pumped out every 2 weeks ( 2 of us on board) and no smell since. Our marina does free pump outs so only low cost so far as we have been cruising near our base this year. Ok, next year it will cost us,  but it is so much easier than lugging cassettes around at 7am in the morning.

The down side of our system is the potential for the vacuflush system to breakdown or block. That is the advantage of a cassette. Now I have had to strip the system down once, I realise it is straight forward, and although a crap job (!).....I find it preferable to the 3 day cycle of finding and emptying into Elsan points. We have a porta potty for when the next ice age comes......which is a few days after global warming finishes, or in case the vacuflush gives up, which may happen first. 

We cannot see our tank unless you go looking for it and you cannot hear anything. 

The biggest reason to go cassette has to be that you don't die as early as a pumpouter as you will be fitter with all the walking and carrying to Elsan points.

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On ‎26‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 16:01, Stilllearning said:

I wondered about that. Most (all?) basins drain directly to the outside world, sometimes via a U bend, and if that is the case, perhaps the U bend is clogged up with nasties?

The whole point of a u-bend or trap in domestic situations is to provide an odour barrier to combat the foul lines they connect to. In a leisure boat discharging grey water into the cut I cant see the point and would focus on the appropriateness and condition of skin fittings, holding tanks of all types and all peripherals. If I was in any way unhappy I would rather shit in a bucket and wash in the cut than fill a leaky tank, fresh or foul.

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22 hours ago, OldGoat said:

Reasons that folks give for disliking pump-outs:-

  • They (can) smell
  • You can see the contents
  • You have to pay to empty them
  • If badly designed and laid out there can be leaks and blockages

Yes, drop through's can and do smell, mascerator type don't nor can you see the contents 

Yes you do have to pay to empty them but fairly rarely and most (excuse the pun) conveniences in life come at a premium

Even if well designed they can block if misused. 

 

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9 hours ago, Dr Bob said:

We've been on our boat for 5 months now. For the first 2 months our pumpout system did smell at times. Soon was apparent that the smell was when the tank was getting full. We changed to getting pumped out every 2 weeks ( 2 of us on board) and no smell since. Our marina does free pump outs so only low cost so far as we have been cruising near our base this year. Ok, next year it will cost us,  but it is so much easier than lugging cassettes around at 7am in the morning.

The down side of our system is the potential for the vacuflush system to breakdown or block. That is the advantage of a cassette. Now I have had to strip the system down once, I realise it is straight forward, and although a crap job (!).....I find it preferable to the 3 day cycle of finding and emptying into Elsan points. We have a porta potty for when the next ice age comes......which is a few days after global warming finishes, or in case the vacuflush gives up, which may happen first. 

We cannot see our tank unless you go looking for it and you cannot hear anything. 

The biggest reason to go cassette has to be that you don't die as early as a pumpouter as you will be fitter with all the walking and carrying to Elsan points.

Dr Bob, You don't say how big your tank is but pumping out every two weeks seems very frequent. 

If the boat was not new when you bought it you may find there is a build up of sediment that has settled on the bottom of your tank meaning that when you empty it it does not fully empty. 

See if you can get a high pressure hose (if it is on a wand like a pressure washer that is even better) put it down the outlet and swivel it around to try and blast the bottom of the tank while pumping out. We had a pump out at a hire fleet that dis this (we didn't ask, they just did it) and it was the best pump out we have ever had. The boat started taking much longer before it started to list (which is our notification of needing a pump out) 

Another alternative (if you don't use blue) is to get some treatment for poorly maintained septic tanks and treat the tank, we bought some off Amazon. 

I also tend to rock the bat about a bit side to side just before pumping out and try to flush the loo before and during the pump out as this helps stir things up a bit to encourage the solids in the bottom to swirl about a bit so they get pumped out 

3 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

I've lost count of the number of boaters I know who have removed their pump-out and changed to a cassette. 

I don't know of ANY who have retro-fitted a pumpout bog and tank to replace a cassette.

I would imagine if the tank was not built into the boat at the time of fitting it out it would be a tricky and expensive process to get this done. It is very easy to remove a bog, blank a hole off and stand a plastic one in it's place. I have heard of a number of people who are chugging around with a tank still in place because they have not got around to removing it. 

I think the cost and difficulty in retro fitting a pump out would prohibit most people from doing it even if they might actually prefer one. 

 

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12 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

I've lost count of the number of boaters I know who have removed their pump-out and changed to a cassette. 

I don't know of ANY who have retro-fitted a pumpout bog and tank to replace a cassette.

When we sold the last NB the buyer intended to re-fit* a pump-out as she could not 'even consider emptying a cassette', however, 2 years later she still has the cassette and is quite happy and doesn't consider emptying it twice a week to onerous

*The pump-out was removed for the owner before us and was a condition of their purchase that the yard would do the work (at the buyers cost) before handover.

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On 26/10/2017 at 14:29, SilverComet said:

 we have had the boat since July, the boat previously was completely unused although 12 years old.

Another example of defects developing due to , or in this case, despite lack of use. 

I have  a stainless steel tank but would suggest , if you decide to keep to a holding tank arrangement, plastic is the better material for anything to do with toilet waste.  

I control odour with a splash of Elsan Blue into the toilet bowl. 

 

 

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6 hours ago, cheshire~rose said:

Dr Bob, You don't say how big your tank is but pumping out every two weeks seems very frequent. 

 

 

I measured the tank and it works out at just over 500Lts. Its polyethylene and just about see through with a good torch so we could see we were filling it in 4 weeks of continuous use (2 people). The smell was worst when we got to 95% full. We therefore now empty it every couple of weeks. There is a spare carbon filter lying in one of the back cupboards but I have been just too lazy to fit it. The boat is 15 years old so likely to be some solids at the bottom. Thanks for the input.

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2 hours ago, Dr Bob said:

I measured the tank and it works out at just over 500Lts. Its polyethylene and just about see through with a good torch so we could see we were filling it in 4 weeks of continuous use (2 people). The smell was worst when we got to 95% full. We therefore now empty it every couple of weeks. There is a spare carbon filter lying in one of the back cupboards but I have been just too lazy to fit it. The boat is 15 years old so likely to be some solids at the bottom. Thanks for the input.

Is the smell inside the boat, or coming out of the external vent when the toilet is flushed?

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26 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Is the smell inside the boat, or coming out of the external vent when the toilet is flushed?

No it was just at the back (inside) but only near the tank and smell not linked to flushing. Maybe nowt to do with the filter as that goes to the outside. No smell at all even in very hot weather when tank not filled over 80% (a guess). No leaks visible and all pipe connections seem tight and leak free.

Edited by Dr Bob
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Each to their own on this matter of personal choice. However, we have a pump out and the longest we have been frozen in was 10 days. The Pumpout didn't cause us any angst (the wise virgin may choose to pump out before 99% in cold weather I'd suggest) but, being nowhere near an Elsan point, I am left wondering where I could have emptied a cassette during that period. Clearly, to me at least, the hackneyed 'frozen in' issue is not always 'advantage porta-potti'.

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Personally i prefer cassettes ... biggest pain i have had removing a pump out on a previous boat was the amount of ballasting it took to get the boat trimmed afterwards.

Although i have 3 cassettes it is extremely rare to fill more than one between emptying points. 

Rick

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9 hours ago, dccruiser said:

 

Although i have 3 cassettes it is extremely rare to fill more than one between emptying points. 

And if you're frozen in between emptying points?

This is a genuine question by the way.  As I said above, I've been frozen in for 10 days nowhere near a sanitary station. It's being frozen in which is often flagged as the big advantage of the cassette over the pump out, but no-one has chosen to answer this particular query.

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On 30 October 2017 at 13:36, Sea Dog said:

And if you're frozen in between emptying points?

This is a genuine question by the way.  As I said above, I've been frozen in for 10 days nowhere near a sanitary station. It's being frozen in which is often flagged as the big advantage of the cassette over the pump out, but no-one has chosen to answer this particular query.

A long walk pushing a wheelbarrow or pulling a trolley with a couple of cassettes on. Or if near friends who drive ask them to take you and your cassettes to the Elsan.

I have met boater, who moved very slowly along the cut, he told me that he just pops into a field and digs a hole to empty the cassette in; rather disgusting and environmentally a big no, no. Or perhaps that should be a big do, do?:huh:

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7 minutes ago, Bewildered said:

A long walk pushing a wheelbarrow or pulling a trolley with a couple of cassettes on. Or if near friends who drive ask them to take you and your cassettes to the Elsan.

I have met boater, who moved very slowly along the cut, he told me that he just pops into a field and digs a hole to empty the cassette in; rather disgusting and environmentally a big no, no. Or perhaps that should be a big do, do?:huh:

I suspect your last paragraph explains why no-one has come forward with an answer to my question before you! :sick:

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There used to be a program on the telly called ''You are what you eat'' where a strange weird macabre doctor who went by the name of Dr Gillian McKeith who closely examined and poked peoples poo around with a stick to discover what their diets were. It was a putrid program which came on at TEA TIME!!! :o

Edited by bizzard
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On 10/30/2017 at 13:36, Sea Dog said:

And if you're frozen in between emptying points?

This is a genuine question by the way.  As I said above, I've been frozen in for 10 days nowhere near a sanitary station. It's being frozen in which is often flagged as the big advantage of the cassette over the pump out, but no-one has chosen to answer this particular query.

If i was ever iced in for 10 days it wouldnt be a problem with 3 cassettes even with 2 people aboard.

Rick

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3 hours ago, bizzard said:

There used to be a program on the telly called ''You are what you eat'' where a strange weird macabre doctor who went by the name of Dr Gillian McKeith who closely examined and poked peoples poo around with a stick to discover what their diets were. It was a putrid program which came on at TEA TIME!!! :o

I'm sure I can remember a programme entitled 'Celebrity Enema' or similar.

Richard Blackwood (?) the renown popular entertainer and sometime grate mate of Evans C. had his solid excreta sieved and forensically appraised on prime time terrestrial television.

I can't have imagined it.

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Funnily enough our wash hand basin used to smell . We took the waste pipe apart fairly regularly, 2 or 3 months , and cleaned them with a bottle brush and miltons . Then I changed my toothpaste from Colgate to Corsadol and no more smell  , that was 6 years ago . Still no more smell 

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On 10/30/2017 at 13:36, Sea Dog said:

And if you're frozen in between emptying points?

This is a genuine question by the way.  As I said above, I've been frozen in for 10 days nowhere near a sanitary station. It's being frozen in which is often flagged as the big advantage of the cassette over the pump out, but no-one has chosen to answer this particular query.

 

One can keep buying extra cassettes and filling them up (and storing them where the pump-out tank would otherwise have been) until the big freeze finishes.

Even if one is frozen in next to a sanitary station, it will be frozen solid and not usable, probably. 

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17 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

One can keep buying extra cassettes and filling them up (and storing them where the pump-out tank would otherwise have been) until the big freeze finishes.

Even if one is frozen in next to a sanitary station, it will be frozen solid and not usable, probably. 

So, in real life, many folk's No1 quoted reason to select a pottie over a pump out, i.e. what happens when you're frozen in, turns out to be tosh?

Does that mean the bloke I see driving his camper van from his boat to the sanitary station (I think he does it most days) is splashing his own effluent down his pyjama bottoms just in case theres an ice age in the Midlands and it turns out he's no better prepared for the big freeze than me?  What's gonna happen if he ever takes his boat out in winter, forgets to take his camper van, and gets frozen in for 3 cassettes' worth of days somewhere too far to walk to a potentially frozen sanitary station? I suppose he can cut out his 'sojourn at the septic' and instead soil his pyjamas in the comfort of his boat...  ;)

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