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C&RT license checkers


colmac

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3 hours ago, mrsmelly said:

The one I got was polite and when I pointed out their error I received email apology within eleven minutes. I have noticed that there are fewer pee takers with chicken runs set up etc on the towpath since CART started lightly enforcing the  very easy very few rules that we have to comply with.

Funny. I had considered keeping a pair of bantams, but decided they would be too needy. Didn't know there was a rule against it.

Edited by LadyG
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37 minutes ago, LadyG said:

Funny. I had considered keeping a pair of bantams, but decided they would be too needy. Didn't know there was a rule against it.

Well of course there's no rule against keeping chickens but if you then read on to the "on the towpath" bit it takes on a different complexion.

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4 hours ago, Jerra said:

Out of interest was this a "you have over stayed sling your hook or else" communication or was it along the lines so often mentioned of "our records suggest you are over staying can you confirm this isn't the case.   Never having had such a communications I don't know but the majority who report such communications say they are more along the lines of a query and easily sorted.

No, it wasn't a full blown accusation - more a "watch out, we're suspicious and we've got our eye on you"

Here's the text:

Let’s keep our waterways flowing                   

Using our previous working days sightings, it looks like your boat has been moored in the same general area for more than 14 days. If you have moved since the sighting was taken, then thank you. 

Please remember that when you’re cruising you should be on the move every 14 days.   Please feel free to contact me if there are any issues which are making it difficult for you to regularly move; we may be able to help you.

We’re here to help

If you don’t think you have been moored for 14 days, or you’re not able to move your boat right now for whatever reason, I’m just a phone call away. You can reach me by calling the number below. Just make sure you have your boat index number and your current location to hand. For a refresher on the terms and conditions of your boat licence, please view the PDF at https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/media/library/5962.pdf 

 

The point is, CRT should not be alienating their law-abiding paying customers by using blatantly false assumptions as innuendo.

I'm all in favour of proper enforcement, but it must be based on fact, not fiction.

 

 

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15 minutes ago, Sir Nibble said:

Well of course there's no rule against keeping chickens but if you then read on to the "on the towpath" bit it takes on a different complexion.

BW Byelaws

 

Towing Paths Improper use of towing paths 31.

(1) No person, unless authorised by the Board or otherwise legally entitled so to do shall:

(a) Ride or drive any animal or vehicle over any towing path

(b) Keep any livestock, either restrained or free-roaming on any towing path.

(c )Obstruct any towing path or interfere with the authorised use thereof

(d) Leave open any gate or rail used as a fence or part of a fence alongside across or on any way leading to a towing path

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Bugger me sideways, wish I had never mentioned this. Lighten up people, if you should move to comply with CRT rulings then move. Personally we move because we bought the boat to do just that, not sit on a mooring so if the powers that be want to check where I have been, so be it, nowt to hide. As an aside, how do I stop getting these poxy e-mails whenever someone replies to my post ?

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5 minutes ago, colmac said:

Bugger me sideways, wish I had never mentioned this. Lighten up people, if you should move to comply with CRT rulings then move. Personally we move because we bought the boat to do just that, not sit on a mooring so if the powers that be want to check where I have been, so be it, nowt to hide. As an aside, how do I stop getting these poxy e-mails whenever someone replies to my post ?

Delete notifications in your settings.

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14 minutes ago, Rebotco said:

No, it wasn't a full blown accusation - more a "watch out, we're suspicious and we've got our eye on you"

Here's the text:

Let’s keep our waterways flowing                   

Using our previous working days sightings, it looks like your boat has been moored in the same general area for more than 14 days. If you have moved since the sighting was taken, then thank you. 

Please remember that when you’re cruising you should be on the move every 14 days.   Please feel free to contact me if there are any issues which are making it difficult for you to regularly move; we may be able to help you.

We’re here to help

If you don’t think you have been moored for 14 days, or you’re not able to move your boat right now for whatever reason, I’m just a phone call away. You can reach me by calling the number below. Just make sure you have your boat index number and your current location to hand. For a refresher on the terms and conditions of your boat licence, please view the PDF at https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/media/library/5962.pdf 

 

The point is, CRT should not be alienating their law-abiding paying customers by using blatantly false assumptions as innuendo.

I'm all in favour of proper enforcement, but it must be based on fact, not fiction.

 

 

I must say that the natural assumption for a boat on a home mooring owned for leisure purposes is due to the fact of the two day weekend it's going to be observed within one days travel of it's mooring quite often. Probably a good deal less because who want's to spend 100% of their boat time at the tiller? A bank holiday weekend may see an entire two day cruising range and then there's holidays to maybe get a week away from your last sighting. I don't say that would be a typical useage but it's not unusual and I have certainly known lots of boaters for whom this applies. we aren't all retired or work on the internet. If this pattern of boating attracts cautionary letters then the net has been cast far too wide. 

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51 minutes ago, Rebotco said:

No, it wasn't a full blown accusation - more a "watch out, we're suspicious and we've got our eye on you"

Here's the text:

Let’s keep our waterways flowing                   

Using our previous working days sightings, it looks like your boat has been moored in the same general area for more than 14 days. If you have moved since the sighting was taken, then thank you. 

Please remember that when you’re cruising you should be on the move every 14 days.   Please feel free to contact me if there are any issues which are making it difficult for you to regularly move; we may be able to help you.

We’re here to help

If you don’t think you have been moored for 14 days, or you’re not able to move your boat right now for whatever reason, I’m just a phone call away. You can reach me by calling the number below. Just make sure you have your boat index number and your current location to hand. For a refresher on the terms and conditions of your boat licence, please view the PDF at https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/media/library/5962.pdf 

 

The point is, CRT should not be alienating their law-abiding paying customers by using blatantly false assumptions as innuendo.

I'm all in favour of proper enforcement, but it must be based on fact, not fiction.

 

 

Thats precisely what I got. It depends on individuals take on the matter, to me I thought " Cheeky sods lol " I contacted them and job done, it worried me not one jot as I knew precisely where I had been and that CART were 100 percent wrong. No big deal but the thing is I have dealt in my life with some realy REALY big shit so to me it was trivia, many people havnt so to them it may well cause offence I suppose.

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6 hours ago, Jerra said:

I have been fortunate I haven't had to deal with a lot in my life and I have never had one of these communications, however it doesn't read as offensive or threatening to me.

Yes, but I think that most folks just want to get on wih their lives without interference or being "monitored", fair enough if one has signed up to the CC contract, but not otherwise. I assumed the OP was not contravening any rules, and all the C&RT have to do is to check the type of the licence then delete the "sightings" [thinking about the legalities of maintaining computer records which are not essential]

Edited by LadyG
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8 hours ago, Jerra said:

I have been fortunate I haven't had to deal with a lot in my life and I have never had one of these communications, however it doesn't read as offensive or threatening to me.

Looks to me like someone has done their best NOT to make it appear threatening and stresses that it's easy to sort out. Most of my boating is within a short distance of my home mooring and I can't say receiving that letter would bother me. 

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8 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

Looks to me like someone has done their best NOT to make it appear threatening and stresses that it's easy to sort out. Most of my boating is within a short distance of my home mooring and I can't say receiving that letter would bother me. 

That was my feeling on reading it.

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4 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

Looks to me like someone has done their best NOT to make it appear threatening and stresses that it's easy to sort out. Most of my boating is within a short distance of my home mooring and I can't say receiving that letter would bother me. 

Maybe the politeness is due to those who brought the weaknesses of the logging system directly to CRT's attention. 

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4 minutes ago, rowland al said:

Maybe the politeness is due to those who brought the weaknesses of the logging system directly to CRT's attention. 

So a question.  Is there anybody on the forum who a number of years ago got one of these communications which was worded more strongly and more threateningly?

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On 27/10/2017 at 12:38, Rebotco said:

The current checking regime CRT has adopted is completely unfit for its purpose, as far as leisure boaters with a home mooring are concerned.

I am one such, and it is inevitable that I will mostly be trawling over the same stretch every time I go boating - especially as I usually have only 3 or 4 days available at a time.

As a result I frequently moor at the same spots, but never for more than 24 hours at a time.  Yet I received a warning from CRT that I was not moving far enough to comply with their licence conditions!  

 

Interesting. Just the one? When was this? Was it a written warning? What exactly did it say?

I ask because this is pretty similar to how I use my boat since getting a home mooring in June this year, and I've had no objection from CRT so far. And even when I was CCing and got the odd email, they weren't framed in terms of a warning. More a request for more information to add to that which they already held. 

I woander if your warning might have been from a year or two ago, perhaps more, from the days when their enforcment was rather more aggressive. 

 

Edit to add: I see most of my points have actually already been addressed. I missed a whole page of answers when writing this!

 

Edited by Mike the Boilerman
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2 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Interesting. Just the one? When was this? Was it a written warning? What exactly did it say?

I ask because this is pretty similar to how I use my boat since getting a home mooring in June this year, and I've had no objection from CRT so far. And even when I was CCing and got the odd email, they weren't framed in terms of a warning. More a request for more information to add to that which they already held. 

I woander if your warning might have been from a year or two ago, perhaps more, from the days when their enforcment was rather more aggressive. 

One other detail. I get emails f

 

The wording is in #58 Mike

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On 28/10/2017 at 08:27, Jerra said:

The wording is in #58 Mike

 

Yes I saw that after posting my post, thanks! Dunno if it happens to you, but occasionally I fail to see a whole page of posts whilst composing a reply. Previous versions of this software used to have a REPLY box only at the end of a thread which prevented this. Now there is a REPLY box at the bottom of every page which misleads me into thinking I'm at the end of a thread, when I'm not. Just one more of those trivial irritations that don't matter in isolation, but they add up to a poor 'visitor experience' to use the current vernacular.

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2 hours ago, LadyG said:

Yes, but I think that most folks just want to get on wih their lives without interference or being "monitored", fair enough if one has signed up to the CC contract, but not otherwise. I assumed the OP was not contravening any rules, and all the C&RT have to do is to check the type of the licence then delete the "sightings" [thinking about the legalities of maintaining computer records which are not essential]

 

Boats with a home mooring must still move every 14 days, so still need monitoring, the difference is they just don’t have to move as far as those CCing.

There is no legal requirement for ’HMers’ to Bona-Fide Navigate

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30 minutes ago, Jerra said:

So a question.  Is there anybody on the forum who a number of years ago got one of these communications which was worded more strongly and more threateningly?

My point is that CRT are sending this letter out as an initial query rather than making any rash assumptions based on their logging data. That's a good thing isn't it?

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3 minutes ago, rowland al said:

My point is that CRT are sending this letter out as an initial query rather than making any rash assumptions based on their logging data. That's a good thing isn't it?

I rather thought it was an email.  If so no cost little or no effort - OK by me.   Changes to their logging data would have one of two results IMO either quite large expenditure which I think most boaters would prefer spent in other ways and/or a logging system which makes boaters really feel they are being tracked every minute of everyday.

Living on land I know I am being tracked by the plethora of CCTV cameras but many get hot under the collar at the thought of being tracked.  As Alan has pointed out boats need tracked because of the 14 days rule (law?) so some form of tracking is needed.

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8 minutes ago, Jerra said:

I rather thought it was an email.  If so no cost little or no effort - OK by me.   Changes to their logging data would have one of two results IMO either quite large expenditure which I think most boaters would prefer spent in other ways and/or a logging system which makes boaters really feel they are being tracked every minute of everyday.

Living on land I know I am being tracked by the plethora of CCTV cameras but many get hot under the collar at the thought of being tracked.  As Alan has pointed out boats need tracked because of the 14 days rule (law?) so some form of tracking is needed.

Anyone know how this worked before the 1995 Act? Didn't everyone have to have a home mooring (well on paper) so there was no need to be tracked. 

Could you in those days moor up for as long as you liked when away from your home mooring? 

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On 28/10/2017 at 05:55, LadyG said:

Yes, but I think that most folks just want to get on wih their lives without interference or being "monitored", fair enough if one has signed up to the CC contract, but not otherwise. I assumed the OP was not contravening any rules, and all the C&RT have to do is to check the type of the licence then delete the "sightings" [thinking about the legalities of maintaining computer records which are not essential]

 

Not the case at all. This would lead to large numbers of boaters taking a cheap home mooring up north then picking a convenient towpath spot in a honeypot location, and staying there in perpetuity. You really haven't thought this through have you!

Hence the obligation still to move every 14 days even for those with a home mooring, and consequently the need to monitor them.

 

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4 hours ago, LadyG said:

Yes, but I think that most folks just want to get on wih their lives without interference or being "monitored", fair enough if one has signed up to the CC contract, but not otherwise. I assumed the OP was not contravening any rules, and all the C&RT have to do is to check the type of the licence then delete the "sightings" [thinking about the legalities of maintaining computer records which are not essential]

Quite so.

For me, the main attraction of boating is to escape from all the petty restrictions and pointless bureaucratic interference that dominate modern life.  It is that freedom that I value most highly in boating.

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On 28/10/2017 at 10:37, Rebotco said:

Quite so.

For me, the main attraction of boating is to escape from all the petty restrictions and pointless bureaucratic interference that dominate modern life.  It is that freedom that I value most highly in boating.

 

Time to sell your boat then!

The 'freedom from restriction and beaurocracy' you value so much is an illusion.

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This whole argument sounds like the usual CRT being damned if they do and damned if they don't. I'm sure the vast majority of us would rather they had no need for enforcement of any kind but as long as the network is plagued with those who are intent on not playing fair they need to take some remedial action. The wording of that email is very polite and not threatening in any way; if you're not guilty you have nothing to worry about.

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