inbuilt marine generators

[MtB]

35 minutes ago, Giant said:

 

If everything is water cooled then the casing can be pretty much completely sealed.

 

Really? 

All the diesels I've ever seen gulp huge volumes of air for combustion and pump it all back out through the exhaust.

Bear in mind if you're going to hermetically encase one you'll need to do it on one where the manufacturers approve this course of action or you'll be in for a FAIL at next BSS. 

[cereal tiller]

3 hours ago, Johny London said:

Didn't realise this topic would be so divisive! I'm going to say that whichever method/s or approaches work for a particular individual, well that's fine.

A couple interesting things have cropped up though - firstly the Nife batteries - so infact something does exist that is properly suitable for domestic boat use. Pity about the price but I'm sure if we all used them costs would tumble. If the batteries are as good as they look, I wonder why so may other inferior types have gone on to reign supreme? That suggests either there i s a massive down side to them or possibly they are so good the man doesn't want you to have them!

I've also been hearing about the quieter, space saving wet exhausts, which I don't really understand but again sounds like the best option has been cast by the way side.

Getting back on track somewhat, one of my initial points was - what makes a marine generator a marine generator? I'm thinking one could take a "normal" genny and build it in all nicely with soundproofing and a fan and a diesel supply pipe from the tank. Would it be a case of the "proper" ones having some sort of bs approval or other? After all there could be safety issues if a diy build in wasn't done with a great deal of care. Yet I don't see that the marine ones are inherently different.

Also - I have seen some stephill generators that appeal to me - ssp3000 or thereabouts as these are fully cocooned and have a cooling fan - otherwise they look like what you might find in an open frame. They are petrol but I was thinking to bolt one down on the stern deck and run it off gas. Could do a very good rear stern housing that would double up as seating. Thus the cocoon could end up in another container making it quieter still (subject to air flow).

Does anyone use a similar Stephill? How clean is the 240v output - couldn't find any info.

Just brainstorming.

This is what I use ,Farymann Water cooled Single Cylinder Electric Start Diesel.

It Spins, by Belt drive, a Lucas type A127 Alternator with Stirling Controller, this gives 50 AMPS /600 Watt output ,the Alternator has Forced air from the Boats Bilge and Warm air extraction via Fan to Mushroom Vent in Engine room Roof.

The Engine is Cocooned in a Quick release box which is lined in Sound proofing Foam

Fuel consumption is frugal and noise levels low, the Exhaust is Water Cooled and makes it's exit 10 Inches above Waterline

Engine runs at 1200 RPM which is Gentle on the Ear

The 360 AH Battery bank  can easily Power the 3 KW Inverter which copes with all heavy Domestic loads.

The Total cost of the Genset was less than £250

 

 

[cuthound]

18 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Really? 

All the diesels I've ever seen gulp huge volumes of air for combustion and pump it all back out through the exhaust.

Bear in mind if you're going to hermetically encase one you'll need to do it on one where the manufacturers approve this course of action or you'll be in for a FAIL at next BSS. 

Indeed, despite water cooling the air moving over the engine still adds a fair bit of cooling.

With large standby diesel generators, the engine can consume so much air for combustion that it reduces the air pressure within the engine room, making opening the door to get into the room difficult.

[Giant]

30 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

Really? 

All the diesels I've ever seen gulp huge volumes of air for combustion and pump it all back out through the exhaust.

But that doesn't have to come from ambient air in the casing. It can come in to the engine through an intake port that's isolated from the rest of the capsule, just like the exhaust is on the way out.

[pearley]

2 hours ago, Giant said:

But that doesn't have to come from ambient air in the casing. It can come in to the engine through an intake port that's isolated from the rest of the capsule, just like the exhaust is on the way out.

In the case of my Onan that would be extremely difficult to do.  Air to cool the actual alternator is sucked in through the rear of the alternator, the grille being about 20 inches in diameter. It is then exhausted through vents at the engine end of the alternator. Air intake for the engine is just in front of some of these vents. Admittedly mine doesn't have a sound cocoon, rather the side of the boat and the boxing over the genset being insulated, but the amount of air required is the same. 

Edited October 23, 2017 by pearley

[Giant]

31 minutes ago, pearley said:

In the case of my Onan that would be extremely difficult to do.  Air to cool the actual alternator is sucked in through the rear of the alternator, the grille being about 20 inches in diameter. It is then exhausted through vents at the engine end of the alternator. Air intake for the engine is just in front of some of these vents. Admittedly mine doesn't have a sound cocoon, rather the side of the boat and the boxing over the genset being insulated, but the amount of air required is the same. 

In the current basic Fischer Panda model it looks like the alternator has no grille open to the inside of the cocoon at all. The cocoon is sealed apart from a small intake box at one end which leads directly into the alternator housing, which is sealed too. The air cools the alternator then continues into the engine intake through more closed pipework.

[larryjc]

My last narrow boat and also my last floaty on the blue stuff boat had Paguros.  Single cylinder diesels of 3Kw and uses raw water cooling.  Never had a problem with the strainers getting blocked and very quiet - just a chuffing from the exhaust with a splash.  Quite noisy in the boat though.  Mind you on my new one I don't have a Genny just solar and frankly would not bother with one any more.  Egnine for hot water as we travel most days or just run it for an hour.  Hook up in marinas.

[Bewildered]

I saw a boat a few weeks ago with a suitcase generator mounted in the cratch and fitted with an eberspacher/truck night heater exhaust system, and exhausting through a skin fitting. I'm not sure if this would pass boat safety as it was a petrol genny; the petrol fumes should be able to vent over the side through the cratch deck drain holes. Easy enough to remove prior to inspection, not sure if I would want to risk it though.

it did make me wonder if this would be a good solution for an LPG genny. Can be made secure on the boat, should run quieter on LPG and even quieter with the exhaust silencer, no need to keep lifting on and off the boat, should pass bss; at least I can't see any reason why it would fail, more chance of gases venting over the side from the cratch than from the cooker inside the boat.

still going to have a bit of an annoying hum though

[Muddy Ditch Rich]

My living cabin is at the stern end of my boat, and I'm constantly being disturbed by other boats running engines and generators, noise and toxic exhaust smoke. I like the doors open, fresh air, and peace and quiet. In fact the next boat where I am moored now is stern to stern, and running his engine now past 9 pm, which is boiling my p. The next boat along has let his geny run until 4 am, and the boat next to that has a 2.5 kW open frame on his back deck running every evening.

People are just using their boats as mobile generating stations just so they can sit in there and watch TV, spoiling the peace for everyone else. What happened to the simple canal boating life ?

I have 500 w of solar. 

[cuthound]

A potato pushed into the exhaust pipe will soon stop a diesel or petrol engine...

[Alan de Enfield]

11 hours ago, Muddy Ditch Rich said:

My living cabin is at the stern end of my boat, and I'm constantly being disturbed by other boats running engines and generators, noise and toxic exhaust smoke. I like the doors open, fresh air, and peace and quiet. In fact the next boat where I am moored now is stern to stern, and running his engine now past 9 pm, which is boiling my p. The next boat along has let his geny run until 4 am, and the boat next to that has a 2.5 kW open frame on his back deck running every evening.

People are just using their boats as mobile generating stations just so they can sit in there and watch TV, spoiling the peace for everyone else. What happened to the simple canal boating life ?

I have 500 w of solar. 

It is amazing how 'rule-stretchers' & 'birds of a feather flock together'.

[Horatio Sprague]

I am thinking of installing a Beta 43 on my boat with the engine mounted 230VTravel Power option. Seems sensible to have one engine doing everything, and heard very good reports of TravelPower. I accept that I must run the engine to get 230V for larger uses like washing machine etc. but crazy to use it for things like TV. My question is if I have TravelPower, how many leisure batteries and what sized Inverter recommended to power less hungry appliances?

[WotEver]

3 minutes ago, Horatio Sprague said:

I am thinking of installing a Beta 43 on my boat with the engine mounted 230VTravel Power option. Seems sensible to have one engine doing everything, and heard very good reports of TravelPower. I accept that I must run the engine to get 230V for larger uses like washing machine etc. but crazy to use it for things like TV. My question is if I have TravelPower, how many leisure batteries and what sized Inverter recommended to power less hungry appliances?

What consumption does your power audit come up with?

Calculations go...

1) Power Audit,

2) Can you generate the result of 1 x 1.2 in your available charging time? If yes then...

3) Battery bank approximately 3 x 1. 

If the answer to 2) is no then return to 1) and see what you can minimise. 

[Horatio Sprague]

Thanks for the advice.....Power Audit needed now!

[OldGoat]

28 minutes ago, Horatio Sprague said:

I am thinking of installing a Beta 43 on my boat with the engine mounted 230VTravel Power option. Seems sensible to have one engine doing everything, and heard very good reports of TravelPower. I accept that I must run the engine to get 230V for larger uses like washing machine etc. but crazy to use it for things like TV. My question is if I have TravelPower, how many leisure batteries and what sized Inverter recommended to power less hungry appliances?

Top marks for the TP - that's a good start!

The next I would seriously consider are:-

• More batteries than the absolute minimum whatever your power audit indicates - say around 600 Ah or more
• A powerful DC alternator 100 amps plus. Beta do a package with engine / domestic / TP alternators
• If a new boat I'd go for 24V DC. IME the equipment is more reliable. 

Folks say - I only want a tv - then ignore all the other bits - HiFi, Laptops, 5v charging, lights etc etc. Get it right from the beginning...

[MtB]

On 10/26/2017 at 09:00, cuthound said:

A potato pushed into the exhaust pipe will soon stop a diesel or petrol engine...

 

Not in my experience. Have you actually tried it?

I have and the potato got expelled at 1,000 miles an hour 30 seconds later!

[cuthound]

8 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Not in my experience. Have you actually tried it?

I have and the potato got expelled at 1,000 miles an hour 30 seconds later!

Only on a car, used to be a favourite wheeze when I was a student.

[mrsmelly]

5 hours ago, Horatio Sprague said:

I am thinking of installing a Beta 43 on my boat with the engine mounted 230VTravel Power option. Seems sensible to have one engine doing everything, and heard very good reports of TravelPower. I accept that I must run the engine to get 230V for larger uses like washing machine etc. but crazy to use it for things like TV. My question is if I have TravelPower, how many leisure batteries and what sized Inverter recommended to power less hungry appliances?

An excellent choice. Our travelpower does any hard work virtualy for free whilst cruising we use it most days for such as washing, hoover etc. We have 4 x 110 a/h cheapos and a 1600 combi. If you are spending 14 million pounds on a 12 volt fridge then a smaller inverter will do if you wish otherwise the larger verter makes easy work of the a/c fridge.

[Horatio Sprague]

Thanks...that's just the advice I was hoping for! My only issue no is whether to go for 12V or 24V DC system.

[mrsmelly]

6 minutes ago, Horatio Sprague said:

Thanks...that's just the advice I was hoping for! My only issue no is whether to go for 12V or 24V DC system.

The standard beta will be 12 volt. Every chandlers you come to if you break down will stock 12 volt kit, the starter motors etc on the standard beta will be 12 volt and instantly available, any lighting onboard will be easier to obtain in 12 volt this is why 90 percent or more narrowboats are 12 volt. I used to skipper two boats at one company one was 12 volt the other a mixture of 24 and 12 and the 24 volt stuff worked precisely the same way as 12 volt stuff, no better, no worse you can get away with smaller sized wire when using 24 volt but why would you.

[Horatio Sprague]

Thanks again. The Beta Engine I am having has optional 24V/12V alternator for domestic batteries and most of what I have read suggests that things are moving towards 24V. Seems that 24V or dual voltage equipment is now pretty common and no more expensive. I'll keep researching!

[mrsmelly]

12 minutes ago, Horatio Sprague said:

Thanks again. The Beta Engine I am having has optional 24V/12V alternator for domestic batteries and most of what I have read suggests that things are moving towards 24V. Seems that 24V or dual voltage equipment is now pretty common and no more expensive. I'll keep researching!

Do remember the battery configuration if you go 24 volt

[Horatio Sprague]

I guess 2 sets of 2 batteries wired in series......but I will be working it all out in detail with a pro!

[Alan de Enfield]

18 minutes ago, Horatio Sprague said:

..but I will be working it all out in detail with a pro!

What does she charge - is it by the hour ?

[mrsmelly]

4 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

What does she charge - is it by the hour ?

Yeah that's a supply that will dry up post Brexit