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Advice for Upper River Severn Please


The Grumpy Triker

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Dear all,

Well got the boat from Nantwich to Kidderminster with a young but willing crew despite the gale and a canal like pea soup due to the leaves and other debris...a real learning experience, then today, my first true time as a solo through locks etc. and despite weather forecast set fair!!... yep it peed it down, engine power loss issues and by the time I got to Stourport ( about 3.40pm after late start) I was drenched, and then the rain REALLY started!...shower, dry clothes and a beer in a local pub & all is good with the world....

...EXCEPT!.....after all this rain should I be checking the flow rates etc. for Stourport to Worcester tomorrow?.....and if I do need to check, where and whAt am I looking for? I used to use the Thames loads and you just knew the river but the Severn is fed by a lot more higher ground and I learnt to respect nature at a young age....any advice greatly appreciated. :cheers:

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You can look at the gauges here

https://flood-warning-information.service.gov.uk/river-and-sea-levels

by the looks going aground due to lock of water is the biggest issue, but I suspect the levels will raise over the next 24 hours.  In fact if you look at the Bewdley gauge it is just starting to kick up a little.

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1 minute ago, john6767 said:

You can look at the gauges here

https://flood-warning-information.service.gov.uk/river-and-sea-levels

by the looks going aground due to lock of water is the biggest issue, but I suspect the levels will raise over the next 24 hours.  In fact if you look at the Bewdley gauge it is just starting to kick up a little.

As a newbie on a 60' narrowboat, should I be concerned about flow rates this high up the Thames? Am guessing as per your comment, that lack of water is not an issue going forwards.

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2 minutes ago, The Grumpy Triker said:

As a newbie on a 60' narrowboat, should I be concerned about flow rates this high up the Thames? Am guessing as per your comment, that lack of water is not an issue going forwards.

The lack of water was a flippant comment, you are not going to go aground, but if you look the levels are generally still low, so levels in themselves are not an issue, ie the water level will not be high.  The flow will probably pick up a bit after the rain.

If is is flowing well and presuming you are coming off the river at Diglis, then follow the advice for approaching the lock to the canal by going past and turning in  the slack water in front of Diglis river lock and not turning across the river by Diglis weir, a few boats havecome unstuck there when the river is flowing a bit, for example

http://www.worcesternews.co.uk/news/14418303.UPDATE__Man_in_his_70s_rescued_from_stranded_narrow_boat_on_Worcester_s_River_Severn/

CRT's River Severn guide has the info in it

https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/refresh/media/original/27339-new-river-severn-navigation-guide-april-2016.pdf

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We came down river to Diglis yesterday (Wednesday) and the level was well down in the green. It is probably rising slowly by now but hopefully not much. They were working on Holt lock yesterday but that should all be complete.

 

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2 hours ago, The Grumpy Triker said:

Dear all,

Well got the boat from Nantwich to Kidderminster with a young but willing crew despite the gale and a canal like pea soup due to the leaves and other debris...a real learning experience, then today, my first true time as a solo through locks etc. and despite weather forecast set fair!!... yep it peed it down, engine power loss issues and by the time I got to Stourport ( about 3.40pm after late start) I was drenched, and then the rain REALLY started!...shower, dry clothes and a beer in a local pub & all is good with the world....

...EXCEPT!.....after all this rain should I be checking the flow rates etc. for Stourport to Worcester tomorrow?.....and if I do need to check, where and whAt am I looking for? I used to use the Thames loads and you just knew the river but the Severn is fed by a lot more higher ground and I learnt to respect nature at a young age....any advice greatly appreciated. :cheers:

It's fine to be apprehensive,  - we've been caught out by sudden heavy rain eg on the Avon and the Aire & Calder -  but the upper Severn isn't in the same league as regards volatility. In fact a couple of years ago we were at Worcester intending to head down to Tewkesbury and back up the Avon but heavy rain in the South made the Avon a complete no-go so we pootled up to Stourport on the Severn no problem at all.         

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This can be useful as it gives the levels of the River Salwarpe (from River Severn into Droitwich) and the River Severn between Bevere lock and Holt lock.

Currently the River Salwarpe is in the Red Zone.  -   https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/enjoy-the-waterways/boating/planning-your-boat-trip/strong-stream-warnings

I am not sure if you are planning on going as far as Gloucester, but if a spring tide is due it overtops the weir at Gloucester which makes it dangerous for a few hours, so if in doubt a call to the Lock Keeper at Gloucester is a good idea.

 

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It can get fast, ring the lock keeper at first lock in the morning, and ask them ,before you leave, if it's OK to continue.that first  weir takes a pull if it's flowing fast, but you will be there quick.The boards should tell you green to go, but it can rise fast.

 

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1 hour ago, Chewbacka said:

This can be useful as it gives the levels of the River Salwarpe (from River Severn into Droitwich) and the River Severn between Bevere lock and Holt lock.

Currently the River Salwarpe is in the Red Zone.  -   https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/enjoy-the-waterways/boating/planning-your-boat-trip/strong-stream-warnings

I am not sure if you are planning on going as far as Gloucester, but if a spring tide is due it overtops the weir at Gloucester which makes it dangerous for a few hours, so if in doubt a call to the Lock Keeper at Gloucester is a good idea.

 

The Salwarpe goes up and down very quickly and mirrors local rainfall. The section of river navigation which is part of the Droitwich Canals also isn't between the Severn and Droitwich; it's east of Droitwich on the way to the Worcester & Birmingham at Hanbury.

JP

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15 hours ago, john6767 said:

The lack of water was a flippant comment, you are not going to go aground, but if you look the levels are generally still low, so levels in themselves are not an issue, ie the water level will not be high.  The flow will probably pick up a bit after the rain.

If is is flowing well and presuming you are coming off the river at Diglis, then follow the advice for approaching the lock to the canal by going past and turning in  the slack water in front of Diglis river lock and not turning across the river by Diglis weir, a few boats havecome unstuck there when the river is flowing a bit, for example

http://www.worcesternews.co.uk/news/14418303.UPDATE__Man_in_his_70s_rescued_from_stranded_narrow_boat_on_Worcester_s_River_Severn/

CRT's River Severn guide has the info in it

https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/refresh/media/original/27339-new-river-severn-navigation-guide-april-2016.pdf

:D mine was a bit tongue in cheek as well and many thanks for the info and for the warning, I hadn't seen any navigational notes on this in the guides. I was going to turn in but given the weather warnings for Saturday I think I may plough onto Tewkesbury now. Provided things go to plan. I'll visit Worcester on another day.

15 hours ago, eightacre said:

We came down river to Diglis yesterday (Wednesday) and the level was well down in the green. It is probably rising slowly by now but hopefully not much. They were working on Holt lock yesterday but that should all be complete.

 

:cheers: for that....fingers crossed

14 hours ago, Neil2 said:

It's fine to be apprehensive,  - we've been caught out by sudden heavy rain eg on the Avon and the Aire & Calder -  but the upper Severn isn't in the same league as regards volatility. In fact a couple of years ago we were at Worcester intending to head down to Tewkesbury and back up the Avon but heavy rain in the South made the Avon a complete no-go so we pootled up to Stourport on the Severn no problem at all.         

Cheers Neil, good to know that. I always respect the rivers so just didn't know about the non-tidal Severn

13 hours ago, Chewbacka said:

This can be useful as it gives the levels of the River Salwarpe (from River Severn into Droitwich) and the River Severn between Bevere lock and Holt lock.

Currently the River Salwarpe is in the Red Zone.  -   https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/enjoy-the-waterways/boating/planning-your-boat-trip/strong-stream-warnings

I am not sure if you are planning on going as far as Gloucester, but if a spring tide is due it overtops the weir at Gloucester which makes it dangerous for a few hours, so if in doubt a call to the Lock Keeper at Gloucester is a good idea.

 

:cheers:

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12 hours ago, Timx said:

It can get fast, ring the lock keeper at first lock in the morning, and ask them ,before you leave, if it's OK to continue.that first  weir takes a pull if it's flowing fast, but you will be there quick.The boards should tell you green to go, but it can rise fast.

 

Thanks Tim, I had it in mind that maybe I should call ahead, so will definitely do so as heading there Sat ....well prob Sun now :D

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If you check the Bewdley and Diglis gauges now you will see that the water level has come up a bit oversight, but hardly anything really.

If there is space on the floating pontoon, Upton makes a good stopping point on the way to Tewkesbury.

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8 hours ago, john6767 said:

If you check the Bewdley and Diglis gauges now you will see that the water level has come up a bit oversight, but hardly anything really.

If there is space on the floating pontoon, Upton makes a good stopping point on the way to Tewkesbury.

Was going to pull in there but intermittent power loss issues delayed me and only just managed to limp into Tewkesbury before dark. 

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BE VERY CAREFULL AT DIGLIS. When you come down the river,you will have to go past the entrance to the Wand B Canal. Do NOT try to turn by the pontoon opposite the orange barrier. Go past and turn near to the lock. Then motor safely up to the pontoon.

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The term Upper Severn is an interesting one, as the navigation from Stourport to Gloucester, I would prefer to call Severn rather than Upper Severn. So where does start Upper Severn start? There are limited navigation sections at Coalbrookdale and Shrewsbury. That at Shrewsbury was made possible though the making of a weir of sufficient height to permit a trip boat to run between the English & Welsh Bridges. Navigation was once possible up river as far as Pool Quay and in real terms the sections from Shrewsbury to Pool Quay and Shrewsbury to Bewdley are best referred to as Upper Severn. Above Pool Quay there was a high weir made in Medieval times that prevented barges from travelling further up stream, although it is believed that it was once possible. For those who visit Pool Quay today there is still an inn there that was once used by the barge owners.   

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1 hour ago, Heartland said:

The term Upper Severn is an interesting one, as the navigation from Stourport to Gloucester, I would prefer to call Severn rather than Upper Severn. So where does start Upper Severn start? There are limited navigation sections at Coalbrookdale and Shrewsbury. That at Shrewsbury was made possible though the making of a weir of sufficient height to permit a trip boat to run between the English & Welsh Bridges. Navigation was once possible up river as far as Pool Quay and in real terms the sections from Shrewsbury to Pool Quay and Shrewsbury to Bewdley are best referred to as Upper Severn. Above Pool Quay there was a high weir made in Medieval times that prevented barges from travelling further up stream, although it is believed that it was once possible. For those who visit Pool Quay today there is still an inn there that was once used by the barge owners.   

Nice bit of history but I guess the relevant term here is 'was navigable' - as I wasn't around in those days, and to clarify my own terminology, I would refer to the Upper Severn as being the navigable non-tidal section above where the tidal and 'Lower' Non-Tidal river sections meet.

I guess that's the beauty of the modern world, always changing ;):D

I hope that clarifies my view of the River Severn today. :cheers:

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Well I understand the tidal section is south of Tewkesbury. And by this definition covers the river to Gloucester Lock and over towards Over. But then there is Tidal part where the river becomes an Estuary So what can this be called. The Lower Lower Severn. And what about the navigation at Shrewsbury is this the Upper Upper Severn. Being a historian, I prefer anything north of Bewdley to be called the Upper Severn and that below the Severn. I also recall that a few years ago there were plans to restore the navigation upstream of Bewdley and that restoration had the name Upper Severn

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21 hours ago, Heartland said:

Well I understand the tidal section is south of Tewkesbury. And by this definition covers the river to Gloucester Lock and over towards Over. But then there is Tidal part where the river becomes an Estuary So what can this be called. The Lower Lower Severn. And what about the navigation at Shrewsbury is this the Upper Upper Severn. Being a historian, I prefer anything north of Bewdley to be called the Upper Severn and that below the Severn. I also recall that a few years ago there were plans to restore the navigation upstream of Bewdley and that restoration had the name Upper Severn

You have tidal and non-tidal south of Tewkesbury......and to be honest you are allowed to call it what you like, as am I. So long as place names qualify the situation then everyone will understand.

History is always changing and our understanding of it also, too many people tend to focus on a specific writing or view of history in order to justify their position as opposed to enjoying it and moving on.....all a bit like religion really, too many people become hung up on  a specific focus, telling people they're wrong because it doesn't fit with their own view of life or ideology speaks for itself I think.

......not saying that you were down this path, but people don't have to agree on names for everything.:cheers:

Tolerance in an intolerant World is in itself a self gratifying thing......or you can just turn your back and get on with life.....equally self gratifying at times.

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