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Sailaway


MichaelG

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Hello, as I said on a previous post I am looking to buy a narrowboat within the next year to be used for leisure until I retire in 2020 when I intend to liveaboard for a few years. My budget for the boat is £70k for which I hope to get a decent quality 57ish footer around 10 years old.

The other option is to buy a new sailaway and fit it out myself. I would be interested to hear from anyone who has gone down the sailaway route. I am not a professional tradesman but am a moderately competent DIYer and can turn my hand to most things. I have refitted a fibreglass cabin cruiser before but maybe a 57 foot narrowboat might just be a bridge too far?

I believe you can get a 57 foot sailaway for around £33k and I read somewhere that fit out costs excluding any professional labour would come in at around £15k. I would anticipate that I would have to factor in some professional labour charges to cover some areas for safety I couldnt do myself such as gas fitting. Fit out time I have read that putting in a couple of days a week would take a year or so. Would that be about right? 

So basically I am thinking do I spend my hard earned on a decent fully fitted used boat or on a new sailaway.    

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I have done a few boats and you need to have electricity on site, live within 20 miles of where the boat is and commit pretty much every spare hour to sourcing stuff, e bay, timber yards, boat jumbles, planning, designing, a car with a roof rack at the very least, a cheap welder and a bit of skill with it and not forgetting actually building it without making big mistakes. People always say things like 'You must be so proud of what you've done, Well, a little bit I suppose but mostly relief that its done, relief that my wife hasn't wandered off after never seeing me for two years and relief that there is some money left. So, unless you really want to build a boat I would look for a nice, straightforward boat to buy that someone else has sweated over. Having said all that I have been making little drawings of a wooden tug on bits of paper all over the house. I just can't seem to stop. I reckon I might still have another boat left in me. Oh dear.

  • Greenie 2
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I think it depends on whether or not you can find exactly what you want "off the peg." If you can get one that's already done, so much the better - more time for enjoying the waterways.

If you go for some sort of sailaway, I would recommend having it all lined out and painted. You can then also have all the wiring and pipe tails where you want. Other stuff too depending on what you want to spend. There will still be lots and lots to do, believe me. And everything on a boat takes twice as long and costs twice as much. Plus all the research that one has to do - heating, stoves, silly stuff like tv aerial, curtain rods etc etc.

Your budget sounds healthy anyway.

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Based on my sailaway build:

The time taken to build is heavily dependent on your facilities/setup.

  • travel time to boat
  • storage space on site - particularly for 8 x 4 boards
  • shed space for storing newly varnished/painted stuff off boat
  • material transporter ie van
  • accessible chandlery is useful
  • whether you have to actually live on it on the days you work on it. Yes = much harder.
  • deliverable address ie nobody moans/charges & it's a recognised address
  • is your sailaway already ballasted? floored? battened? sprayfoamed? windowed? painted? (my topside came with simple epoxy paint job which has been fantastic)
  • 240V power - for tools - for heating
  • time of year (the absolute 1st priority is getting it painted.)

A competent DIYer can learn to do gas fairly easily. You've seen the BSS guide?

Its taken me 7 years and I'm nowhere near finished, but all the factors involved are worst case for me and I only get to work about 35 days per year, and I like changing my mind and redoing things.

ETA

I do it because I really like doing it. On occasion I've got up at 05:00 and worked with breaks until 23:00, just because it is so much fun. As the years pass, more work is just maintenance eg exterior painting & blacking, and this is not so much fun.

Edited by system 4-50
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I bought a shell and fitted it. Shell was about one third of total cost. It took me eighteen months working on boat for about 4 days a week. My first tool that I bought was a Peugeot pickup this enabled me to buy at attractive prices such as engine and all other stuff straight from suppliers. Would I do another? would I hell. Buy a secondhand boat in good nick for well less than your budget, enjoy the life and spend the rest on beer.

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1 minute ago, mrsmelly said:

I bought a shell and fitted it. Shell was about one third of total cost. It took me eighteen months working on boat for about 4 days a week. My first tool that I bought was a Peugeot pickup this enabled me to buy at attractive prices such as engine and all other stuff straight from suppliers. Would I do another? would I hell. Buy a secondhand boat in good nick for well less than your budget, enjoy the life and spend the rest on beer.

So you sailed away using a pair of oars?

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I'll bet there are scores of boat owners on here who at some time have thought about fitting out a sailaway.  But read the above comments from those who have done it and dismiss the thought.  

The problem is there are now a lot of shell builders producing sailaways that on the face of it look like cracking value for money, and that's the appeal.  One builder I was talking to recently said there was a time when he couldn't build them fast enough.  But I do believe there are now so many examples of half finished boats covered in rusty primer that the message has got through - it is not a cheap way to buy a narrowboat.  The builder I was talking to says he has definitely experienced a definite fall off in demand for sailaways in the last 18 months by the way.  

  • Happy 1
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8 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

I imagine with your stated location being "The Milky Way" that  this has played a large part in your extended build time.

:D

The lack of precision in the location is a security measure. I'm a bit obsessive about security. 

7 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Row, row, row your boat
Gently down the stream
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily
Fit-out is but a dream nightmare (for some)

 

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Great advice there from system 4-50.

It is so easy to go through things in ones head and say a week for x, two weeks for y etc etc but there are lots of practical hurdles that will greatly extend those times. If you could get the hull delivered into (for example) your garden, that would be perfect - even taking into account transport costs. Working on the fly whilst living aboard and cruising is the other end of the spectrum. Mine was a sailaway with extras - lined, bathroom, wiring tails. Still so much to do - thought I'd be done within a year. If I'd had to panel it out inside, I'm sure I would have given up. As it is I should get it done - and it will be really good, and just how I want - but I hope I never do another. Winter 2 approaching and still no central heating!

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On my sailaway (Colecraft 60ft with Beta 43, which is beauty boatyfied) I enjoyed:

  • getting the windows finally in. It stopped the snow coming in. Involved drilling and tapping about 175 holes. Never again, I'd go for clip types.
  • getting it sprayfoamed. At last it could be heated.
  • getting the floor down. I no longer tripped over the ballast bricks.
  • getting the water tanks in. I no longer used 5L bottles.
  • getting the flush toilet in. I no longer had to use an insane portapotti and empty its stinking contents down a filth hole.
  • getting the 1000 x 760 shower in. Sheer luxury!
  • getting the fixed bed working. 2000 x 1400mm. Big enough to get lost in.
  • getting the standard 60cm cooker, gas fridge, standard washing machine, and tumble dryer in. Sheer joy.
  • getting the large dinette working.
  • lately, fitting a cot shelf for a 18month old visiting granddaughter so that she could go to bed before the adults.

I could have bought a ready-made but I'd have been bored with it within 2 years.

  • Greenie 1
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I did mine starting from a lined out sailaway, painted before collection. I planned the wiring and that was installed before the lining (take lots of photos before the lining so you know what cables go where).  I didn't have 230V on site, but rigged up my 1800W inverter temporarily and used this for all the power tools.  I didn't have storage on site, but most of the 8x4 sheets were put on the boat when I collected it.

I did all the plumbin, gas and electrics, but I had a surveyor overseeing the build to do the RCD documentation, and he provided advice where needed. He signed off the gas when doing the RCD.

It took me about nine months working "9-5", but actually a lot shorter in the winter.  I installed the stove fairly early on so I could heat the boat while working.  If I had done another it would have taken half the time, as much of the time was spent working out how to do things and make stuff, and finding the best source for materials.

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We bought a sail-away with extras last year from Lymm Marina, we had all the electrics, plumbing, bathroom and pump out toilet fitted. I fitted the Kitchen, flooring, bedrooms and storage areas etc, fitted all the other bits such as pipe covers and painted inside. This took a full week off work several weekends and 2/3 nights a week over about 6 weeks. I did it this way to ensure we got the boat we wanted rather than buying a pre-owned boat and then changing it

1 year on I'm still doing all sorts of bits to it, I've painted the outside and all deck fittings are on, but the important thing for me was that we could use it properly within about two months of taking delivery

All costing well within the OP's budget !!

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I fitted out an empty unpainted shell working 6 to 7 days a week full time in 16 months. 

Painting, 7 coats in total,  took a lot longer than I thought. 

If you enjoy a project and not spending time with your partner, if appropriate, then go for it. 

So the true cost in monetary terms  is shell, materials, labour, surveyor, documentation, yard fees for 16 months, expertise. 

Non monetary costs are more difficult to quantify but personal relationships can take a hit. 

Eta just read sniffy's post above and would say that that is the way I would do it if I was to do it again. 

 

Edited by reg
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15 minutes ago, sniffy said:

We bought a sail-away with extras last year from Lymm Marina, we had all the electrics, plumbing, bathroom and pump out toilet fitted. I fitted the Kitchen, flooring, bedrooms and storage areas etc, fitted all the other bits such as pipe covers and painted inside. This took a full week off work several weekends and 2/3 nights a week over about 6 weeks. I did it this way to ensure we got the boat we wanted rather than buying a pre-owned boat and then changing it

1 year on I'm still doing all sorts of bits to it, I've painted the outside and all deck fittings are on, but the important thing for me was that we could use it properly within about two months of taking delivery

All costing well within the OP's budget !!

I got mine from Lymm last year too! And in a similar state of build, but I've not finished yet - should have got you to come and do mine!

They did an excellent job on the line out etc - all to my one off plan, and it was on time. My only gripe is some very poor work on the hull, (ill fitting doors and wonky metalwork, sloppy welding). which they have supplied to them anyway.

I'm hoping to finish mine within the next year :)

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1 hour ago, Johny London said:

I think it depends on whether or not you can find exactly what you want "off the peg." If you can get one that's already done, so much the better - more time for enjoying the waterways.

If you go for some sort of sailaway, I would recommend having it all lined out and painted. You can then also have all the wiring and pipe tails where you want. Other stuff too depending on what you want to spend. There will still be lots and lots to do, believe me. And everything on a boat takes twice as long and costs twice as much. Plus all the research that one has to do - heating, stoves, silly stuff like tv aerial, curtain rods etc etc.

Your budget sounds healthy anyway.

Hi, thanks for all the comments, food for thought. I doubt I will find a used boat "off the peg" exactly what I want but probably near as damn it and ofcourse a new fully fitted bespoke boat would be way out of budget, hence the thought of a sailaway. I think the comments about project time are spot on, projects always seem to take two or three times longer than you anticipate. I think maybe a decent fully fitted used boat with a little left in the budget for tweaking any niggles may be the best route. 

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i now 4 people who fitted out there narrowboat ...3 said never again the other one said he would .it was not a problem to him ...you always get one ..every time we meet  up for a  drink or a bit to eat ..the one who said he would do it again done nothing but moan moan and moan some more about the progress of is fit out ...

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1 hour ago, MichaelG said:

Hi, thanks for all the comments, food for thought. I doubt I will find a used boat "off the peg" exactly what I want but probably near as damn it and ofcourse a new fully fitted bespoke boat would be way out of budget, hence the thought of a sailaway. I think the comments about project time are spot on, projects always seem to take two or three times longer than you anticipate. I think maybe a decent fully fitted used boat with a little left in the budget for tweaking any niggles may be the best route. 

I wouldn't discount a sailaway plus that way you get what you want but with control over the budget and layout. Furniture and fittings and refinements  can be added at a letter stage as budget allows. 

Lymm appears to be a good starting point if you decide to go down that route. 

Whatever you decide good luck I wish you well with it

Edited by reg
Spelckr decided you were a goddess
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2 hours ago, haza said:

i now 4 people who fitted out there narrowboat ...3 said never again the other one said he would .it was not a problem to him ...you always get one ..every time we meet  up for a  drink or a bit to eat ..the one who said he would do it again done nothing but moan moan and moan some more about the progress of is fit out ...

Try getting a conversation out of someone who is part way through doing their own fit out.  These always seem to me to be the most miserable people on the canal.

Did anyone read Graham Booth's account in WW of his trip up the Llangollen canal?  It sounded to me like someone who's spent too much time fitting out boats and not enough time cruising.

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