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Modern "old" engines


smiler

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7 hours ago, RLWP said:

I believe (which means I'm probably wrong) that the 3 cylinder for the Beta JD3 was an old John Deere design, which is why it was chosen for the job. One of the last slow revving diesels

Richard

Its not really a true slow revver as it idles at 800 and runs up to about 2400, but it is a fairly heavy and solid engine. Beta make a few little changes and adjustments to run it between 450 and 1200rpm almost like a real slow revver. This raises all sorts of concerns but mine has now done 10,000 hours so looks like Beta have got away with it (or maybe even know a lot about engines!). The flywheel is a bit lacking at the bottom end of the rev range but they use a clever drive plate which reduces the resulting problems.

..............Dave

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18 hours ago, smiler said:

Thanks all for your replies.

It looks like from your answers it "may" be possible, but sadly regulations have made things very difficult.

I was just wondering if it was still possible to, at least, get the sound/feel of a vintage engine in a modern, compact package - ie low revs/ twin cylinder.

As stated above, Harleys still build a twin cylinder with an original sound/feel and comply with new regs.

I suppose, as stated above, there is probably not enough call for modern diesel boat engines with a vintage "feel"

Suppose I could go with a 4 cylinder and block off 2 injectors? :rolleyes:

I heard a story about a guy with a BMC 1.5 in his boat. With a bit of clever steelwork  he channelled the exhaust from 3 cylinders through the bottom of the boat and the remaining one cylinder upwards through a vertical exhaust stack on the top of the boat. Problem solved. 4 cylinder power, single cylinder exhaust sound. If you're clever enough, this could be done with any modern engine, I'm sure.

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  • Thinks -
  • folks get wound up over the RCD -
  • It's there for people who manufacture boats and is in place to ensure there are some standards for volume production
  • Doesn't apply unless you sell the boat within five years of completion
  • What are the penalties for a DIY builder who doesn't comply for his single boat
  • Has a broker ever rejected a boat because it wasn't compliant?

Here's a quote from a marine surveyor on the web that might help:-

BARRIE MORSE
Marine Surveyor YDSA

Note
A member of the general public building his own boat (in his garage or garden, for example, from materials bought on the open market is deemed to be "building a boat for his own use". This boat lies outside of the Directive and does not require compliance with the essential requirements and thus CE Marking. If for whatever reason this situation changes then the provisions detailed above would be seen to apply.

It should be made clear that a private person who enters into a contractual arrangement with a professional company, yard or individual constructor to build a one off boat (be-spoke) is deemed to have entered into an arrangement where there will be a transfer of ownership. Such a boat is deemed to fall under the Directive and will have to comply with the Essential Requirements of the Directive and applicable conformity assessment procedures. Reference is made to text expanding Article 4.

Boats built for own use have the concept that a person is building their own boat and not having it built by others."

 

Anyway, aren't we supposed to be leaving the EU......

 

Edited by OldGoat
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3 hours ago, monkeyhanger said:

I heard a story about a guy with a BMC 1.5 in his boat. With a bit of clever steelwork  he channelled the exhaust from 3 cylinders through the bottom of the boat and the remaining one cylinder upwards through a vertical exhaust stack on the top of the boat. Problem solved. 4 cylinder power, single cylinder exhaust sound. If you're clever enough, this could be done with any modern engine, I'm sure.

Hmmm - now you`ve got me thinking. :unsure:

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1 hour ago, OldGoat said:
  • Thinks -
  • folks get wound up over the RCD -
  • It's there for people who manufacture boats and is in place to ensure there are some standards for volume production
  • Doesn't apply unless you sell the boat within five years of completion
  • What are the penalties for a DIY builder who doesn't comply for his single boat
  • Has a broker ever rejected a boat because it wasn't compliant?

Here's a quote from a marine surveyor on the web that might help:-

BARRIE MORSE
Marine Surveyor YDSA

Note
A member of the general public building his own boat (in his garage or garden, for example, from materials bought on the open market is deemed to be "building a boat for his own use". This boat lies outside of the Directive and does not require compliance with the essential requirements and thus CE Marking. If for whatever reason this situation changes then the provisions detailed above would be seen to apply.

It should be made clear that a private person who enters into a contractual arrangement with a professional company, yard or individual constructor to build a one off boat (be-spoke) is deemed to have entered into an arrangement where there will be a transfer of ownership. Such a boat is deemed to fall under the Directive and will have to comply with the Essential Requirements of the Directive and applicable conformity assessment procedures. Reference is made to text expanding Article 4.

Boats built for own use have the concept that a person is building their own boat and not having it built by others."

 

Anyway, aren't we supposed to be leaving the EU......

 

I`m guessing buying a sailaway falls under the Directive but does a bare hull also fall under it?

If so, although perfectly capable, I don`t fancy building a boat from scratch and fitting it out.

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4 hours ago, monkeyhanger said:

I heard a story about a guy with a BMC 1.5 in his boat. With a bit of clever steelwork  he channelled the exhaust from 3 cylinders through the bottom of the boat and the remaining one cylinder upwards through a vertical exhaust stack on the top of the boat. Problem solved. 4 cylinder power, single cylinder exhaust sound. If you're clever enough, this could be done with any modern engine, I'm sure.

But if he thought harder he would have taken the exhaust from TW0 cylinders (adjacent in the firing order) to get the lovely sound of an uneven firing 2 cylinder motor.

There is a Beta JD3 about with something similar (two silenced cylinders, one not) and it did not sound that pleasing to me, but certainly interesting and unusual.

I used to work with a bloke who was something of a world expert on exhaust design and did discuss this with him. His suggestion was to totally silence the exhaust and bring it out low down and then suitably tune the intake and stick that out through the roof. :D

.............Dave

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43 minutes ago, dmr said:

But if he thought harder he would have taken the exhaust from TW0 cylinders (adjacent in the firing order) to get the lovely sound of an uneven firing 2 cylinder motor.

There is a Beta JD3 about with something similar (two silenced cylinders, one not) and it did not sound that pleasing to me, but certainly interesting and unusual.

I used to work with a bloke who was something of a world expert on exhaust design and did discuss this with him. His suggestion was to totally silence the exhaust and bring it out low down and then suitably tune the intake and stick that out through the roof. :D

.............Dave

Sounds like a lot of faff. Easier to totally silence the exhaust then use an MP3 player and a speaker. You can have any engine sound you want

Richard

Edited by RLWP
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8 minutes ago, RLWP said:

Sounds like a lot of faff. Easier to totally silence the exhaust then use an MP3 player and a speaker. You can have any engine sound you want

Richard

Absolutely. How else would you make any modern engine sound like this?

 

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5 hours ago, monkeyhanger said:

I heard a story about a guy with a BMC 1.5 in his boat. With a bit of clever steelwork  he channelled the exhaust from 3 cylinders through the bottom of the boat and the remaining one cylinder upwards through a vertical exhaust stack on the top of the boat. Problem solved. 4 cylinder power, single cylinder exhaust sound. If you're clever enough, this could be done with any modern engine, I'm sure.

This is what in looking at doing with our Beta 75!

 

Dan

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It's not going to do their Lycra any good at all

This would be worse

 

Just now, stagedamager said:

This is what in looking at doing with our Beta 75!

 

Dan

I'll help you with that - and give you £20 for those dusty old engines cluttering up your shed

Richard

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43 minutes ago, RLWP said:

It's not going to do their Lycra any good at all

This would be worse

Any idea why it suddenly switched from smokey to flamey? Advancing the ignition? Switching in a second magneto?

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3 minutes ago, WotEver said:

Any idea why it suddenly switched from smokey to flamey? Advancing the ignition? Switching in a second magneto?

Don't know. I do wonder if it is a party trick involving spilling petrol into the exhaust. Or maybe the carb is useless at such low speeds

Richard

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3 minutes ago, RLWP said:

Don't know. I do wonder if it is a party trick involving spilling petrol into the exhaust. Or maybe the carb is useless at such low speeds

Richard

Perhaps it has a rich/lean control and he pushes it to fully rich just to get rid of cyclists ;)

  • Greenie 1
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15 hours ago, WotEver said:

Any idea why it suddenly switched from smokey to flamey? Advancing the ignition? Switching in a second magneto?

It may possibly be due to retarding the ignition, allowing unburned fuel into the exhaust. Many years ago, after rebuilding the engine on a Mustang which I owned, I managed to fire it up for the first time with the ignition retarded by quite a large amount. This caused my tubular exhaust "headers" to glow red hot. Setting the timing to the correct position cured it. I seem to recall that a lot of cars of the vintage shown in the film have manual ignition timing adjusters on the steering wheel. I suspect that this might be the drivers "party trick"

  • Greenie 1
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6 minutes ago, monkeyhanger said:

It may possibly be due to retarding the ignition, allowing unburned fuel into the exhaust. Many years ago, after rebuilding the engine on a Mustang which I owned, I managed to fire it up for the first time with the ignition retarded by quite a large amount. This caused my tubular exhaust "headers" to glow red hot. Setting the timing to the correct position cured it. I seem to recall that a lot of cars of the vintage shown in the film have manual ignition timing adjusters on the steering wheel. I suspect that this might be the drivers "party trick"

Also, if it's a V12, why does it have 12 exhaust pipes coming out of the R.H. cylinder head? Two exhaust ports per cylinder? Or is it really a V24?

Just had a look on Youtube. It is a V24.

Edited by monkeyhanger
added info.
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