Sea Otter questions

[the_Saint]

Hi folks

 

looking for some advice please. We are seriously considering a sea otter 31ft. It’s the right length and I’m attracted by the low maintenance.

 

however - we have found a boat which was recently rejected by the first bidder after survey. The surveyor found some ‘pitting’ on the hull.

 

sonwe found another boat, and as I was arranging a survey another surveyor said he had seen several sea otters with pitting.

 

this has confused us somewhat and now we’re a little worried.

 

anyone else have any advice?

 

another thing which came up we’re issues with condensation. 

 

Thank you in advance

[Tony Brooks]

What I can say is that Vetus sell aluminium anodes for brackish water and  if an aluminium boat is electrically connected to a steel boat by something like an unprotected shore line its likely the aluminium boat that will suffer. However I though Sea Otters had Isolation Transformers as standard - happy to be corrected.

Not sure I buy the minimum maintenance thing, scratches are scratches steel or aluminium.

[the_Saint]

Thanks Tony.

I wonder if any otter owners have seen this type of pitting - possibly caused, as you say, through some sort of connection.

I think all otters come with GI.

[Neil2]

That's very interesting.

AFAIK Sea Otters were fitted with galvanic isolators not isolation transformers - those that were set up by the factory anyway.  I suppose, given that most Sea Otters were made to order, a boat could have left the factory without a land line and subsequently one has been fitted without a GI.  It's the only way an aluminium boat can suffer pitting though, so it makes one a little nervous especially if there is a GI.

Our boat is zinc plated and it's the slight risk associated with galvanic isolators that prevents me installing a mains connection.  We're on a marina and I don't want my hull acting as an anode.  Several members on here have assured me that GI's are supposed to be foolproof but I believe there is a slight risk and I haven't yet been able to justify the cost of an IT.  

  

[Lady M]

My Sea Otter came with a GI - I insisted.  Initially it was incorrectly connected.  My Sea Otter suffers from what appears to be galvanic corrosion and also internal condensation especially in the winter.  It's not proved ideal for year round use though the larger ones may be better. 

Perhaps the OP should have their own survey on the Sea Otter they are interested in.

 

[cuthound]

1 hour ago, Neil2 said:

We're on a marina and I don't want my hull acting as an anode.  Several members on here have assured me that GI's are supposed to be foolproof but I believe there is a slight risk and I haven't yet been able to justify the cost of an IT.  

  

An  IT is way cheaper than overplating and cheaper than welding up the pits when you take the cost of getting the boat into and out of the water is taken into consideration.

A GI is cheaper still and if checked regularly will provide adequate protection UNLESS the voltage disparity between shore earth and the hull earthing via the water is high enough to switch the diodes on (which will be revealed by periodic testing or its own instrumentation if so fitted).

Edited October 13, 2017 by cuthound
Clarification

[Neil2]

Just now, cuthound said:

An  IT is cheaper than replating.

Of course, but a mains connection isn't at the top of my list of priorities.  

I'm sold on the idea of a roof covered in solar panels like that Sunflower boat then I can get rid of my engine  and i won't need a mains connection, ever.   

[the_Saint]

4 hours ago, Lady C said:

My Sea Otter came with a GI - I insisted.  Initially it was incorrectly connected.  My Sea Otter suffers from what appears to be galvanic corrosion and also internal condensation especially in the winter.  It's not proved ideal for year round use though the larger ones may be better. 

Perhaps the OP should have their own survey on the Sea Otter they are interested in.

 

Thank you for this reply.

 

the galvanic corrosion you speak of sounds like the same thing spotted by the surveyors I’ve spoken too. 

 

The condsenation issue sounds annoying, as although this will be a weekend toy - I’d like to use it all year round, so that may be a show stopper.

 

andnyes of course we would have a survey - these are questions I had before I spend £800 on a survey. 

 

Thank you

Thanks for the other replies. 

 

All very useful.

[the_Saint]

4 hours ago, Neil2 said:

Of course, but a mains connection isn't at the top of my list of priorities.  

I'm sold on the idea of a roof covered in solar panels like that Sunflower boat then I can get rid of my engine  and i won't need a mains connection, ever.   

I too think that’s a great idea Neil.

 

we very almost bought a Greenline 33 - not a canal boat but a hybrid yacht. Full of lithium batteries and a 1.4kw solar roof. 

 

Is there a narrow boat equivalent I wonder ??

Edited October 13, 2017 by the_Saint

[Tony Brooks]

28 minutes ago, the_Saint said:

I too think that’s a great idea Neil.

 

we very almost bought a Greenline 33 - not a canal boat but a hybrid yacht. Full of lithium batteries and a 1.4kw solar roof. 

 

Is there a narrow boat equivalent I wonder ??

Is this a serious or humorous post?

If the former then yes there are BUT not really practical at this time. Lots of discussion about solar powered inland boats on here, usually started by those with little experience.

Electric with diesel back up/generating is much more practical. Harvest whet you can from the sun,top up the batteries with diesel when the stored electricity runs out. Potential for a sensible range and sensible speed.

 

[WotEver]

Where’s that ‘sarcasm whooshing over the head’ emoticon when you need it?

[Neil2]

28 minutes ago, WotEver said:

Where’s that ‘sarcasm whooshing over the head’ emoticon when you need it?

How very dare you.   if I may paraphrase Edmund Blackadder, that's not sarcasm, it's spontaneous and it's called wit. 

 

To be fair I don't think Mr Saint is aware of the "slating Sunflower" thread.  

 

Edited October 13, 2017 by Neil2

[OldGoat]

1 hour ago, the_Saint said:

Thank you for this reply.

 

the galvanic corrosion you speak of sounds like the same thing spotted by the surveyors I’ve spoken too. 

 

The condsenation issue sounds annoying, as although this will be a weekend toy - I’d like to use it all year round, so that may be a show stopper.

 

andnyes of course we would have a survey - these are questions I had before I spend £800 on a survey. 

 

Thank you

Thanks for the other replies. 

 

All very useful.

If all you were looking for was an alternative to the problem of galvanic corrosion, then as you have seen it isn't - I always thought 'Otters didn't, much sales puff about marine grade Ali:

On the downside -

• More expensive than equivalent NB
• being light , easily blown around by even a little wind
• only really suitable as a day boat because they are basic and I've not heard of any with heating

On the plus side -

• the smaller examples can be towed by an SUV
• economical on fuel (but that's not really an issue)
• plenty of room for an inboard engine - on the Thames,  have only seen the smallest with an OB

If you want to do more than a weekend in the summer cruising - then perhaps a NB with some heating would be better. There is a club but anything other than the homepage is for member only - hardly inviting.

There are some on the Thames - my home ground - and that may well be the type of cruising that suits them best. I think the cost with few advantages over fibreglass or steel hastened their demise. A pity because there is a place for that type of craft.

 

[Boat&Bikes]

21 minutes ago, OldGoat said:

If all you were looking for was an alternative to the problem of galvanic corrosion, then as you have seen it isn't - I always thought 'Otters didn't, much sales puff about marine grade Ali:

On the downside -

• More expensive than equivalent NB
• being light , easily blown around by even a little wind
• only really suitable as a day boat because they are basic and I've not heard of any with heating

On the plus side -

• the smaller examples can be towed by an SUV
• economical on fuel (but that's not really an issue)
• plenty of room for an inboard engine - on the Thames,  have only seen the smallest with an OB

If you want to do more than a weekend in the summer cruising - then perhaps a NB with some heating would be better. There is a club but anything other than the homepage is for member only - hardly inviting.

There are some on the Thames - my home ground - and that may well be the type of cruising that suits them best. I think the cost with few advantages over fibreglass or steel hastened their demise. A pity because there is a place for that type of craft.

 

The two I've been on had webasto heating.  

[ditchcrawler]

29 minutes ago, OldGoat said:

If all you were looking for was an alternative to the problem of galvanic corrosion, then as you have seen it isn't - I always thought 'Otters didn't, much sales puff about marine grade Ali:

On the downside -

• More expensive than equivalent NB
• being light , easily blown around by even a little wind
• only really suitable as a day boat because they are basic and I've not heard of any with heating

On the plus side -

• the smaller examples can be towed by an SUV
• economical on fuel (but that's not really an issue)
• plenty of room for an inboard engine - on the Thames,  have only seen the smallest with an OB

If you want to do more than a weekend in the summer cruising - then perhaps a NB with some heating would be better. There is a club but anything other than the homepage is for member only - hardly inviting.

There are some on the Thames - my home ground - and that may well be the type of cruising that suits them best. I think the cost with few advantages over fibreglass or steel hastened their demise. A pity because there is a place for that type of craft.

 

You can get bigger ones with room on them, but if I didn't want to trailer I wouldnt have one

[the_Saint]

Thanks for the reply.

 

all of those we have looked at have heating - I guess gas as they usually list Truma blown air.

 

You mention them getting blown around in the wind - I have heard this before and it is a worry.

 

any owners concour ?

[Phil Ambrose]

37 minutes ago, OldGoat said:

If all you were looking for was an alternative to the problem of galvanic corrosion, then as you have seen it isn't - I always thought 'Otters didn't, much sales puff about marine grade Ali:

On the downside -

• More expensive than equivalent NB
• being light , easily blown around by even a little wind
• only really suitable as a day boat because they are basic and I've not heard of any with heating

On the plus side -

• the smaller examples can be towed by an SUV
• economical on fuel (but that's not really an issue)
• plenty of room for an inboard engine - on the Thames,  have only seen the smallest with an OB

If you want to do more than a weekend in the summer cruising - then perhaps a NB with some heating would be better. There is a club but anything other than the homepage is for member only - hardly inviting.

There are some on the Thames - my home ground - and that may well be the type of cruising that suits them best. I think the cost with few advantages over fibreglass or steel hastened their demise. A pity because there is a place for that type of craft.

 

A lot of misinformation offered in this post.

Sea Otters can and do have heating, I have a mate who lived very comfortably on a 31 footer. Oh and I'm sure a few people will remember Paul of NuLife42 who lived on a widebeam Sea Otter at Littlehampton ad spent a lot of time doing coastal cruising, he never had any issues as far as I know.

Phil

[the_Saint]

1 hour ago, Tony Brooks said:

Is this a serious or humorous post?

If the former then yes there are BUT not really practical at this time. Lots of discussion about solar powered inland boats on here, usually started by those with little experience.

Electric with diesel back up/generating is much more practical. Harvest whet you can from the sun,top up the batteries with diesel when the stored electricity runs out. Potential for a sensible range and sensible speed.

 

A serious post!

 

i hadn’t searched for other topics on the subject, will have a read!

 

 

Edited October 13, 2017 by the_Saint

[WotEver]

18 minutes ago, the_Saint said:

You mention them getting blown around in the wind - I have heard this before and it is a worry.

 

any owners concour ?

I’m not an owner but I used to be moored on the opposite side of a pontoon from one. On more than one occasion the skipper had to throw me a rope to pull him in to his mooring because the wind was blowing him all over the marina. I think it was about 35-40ft. 

[Grebe]

We had Grebe, a 26ft Sea Otter for 17 years.  Although she was custom fitted for us at the old factory, some elelents were their own (Ray's) set up.  There were no ITs or GIs on offer at that time (1998/9) I suspect they came later.  I suspect the pitting problems are to do with the boats being left for long periods on mains hook-ups and stray currents from other boats affecting them.  For many years Grebe was never left with a cable attached and the hull was fine, however when left with a land-line attched I did notice something like a 'crust' forming in some areas of the hull.

Windage, yes they blow wbout in the wind.  Not when boating along the little dagger at the bottom of th stem-post keeps her in line,but when coming alongside you have to get ready. Slab sides with 5 ft 6 ins above the water  and 18ins below the waterline should tell it all.  We avoided winds above force 5 whwn ever possible.

Condensation, was generally minimal, but we did keep her well ventilated.  What we got was on the windows and it can be more than the small Channel Glaze 'scuppers' can drain away leading to staining in the corners and runs on the cabin lining.  We didn't have a roof-hatch, they can be very wet.

Heating, we had Wallas warm air.  It was toasty at all times.

Good luck in yor search, whatever you get.

[Neil2]

We met a couple with an Otter on the Bridgewater earlier this year, there was a fierce crosswind and we were both pulling into a water point.  The Otter was clearly a real handful and they were having real trouble getting it tied up.  It brought home to me the difference between a light shallow draft boat and a typical steel narrowboat.  A bit like our old Waterbug in that respect but the shallow draft is a real benefit on modern canals so it's swings and roundabouts. 

[ditchcrawler]

Didn't one accompany Chris Coburn somewhere  like the Menai Strait t

[haggis]

1 hour ago, ditchcrawler said:

Didn't one accompany Chris Coburn somewhere  like the Menai Strait t

Yes, I am pretty sure it did 

We have had a 26 foot sea Otter for many years with no pitting but she has never had shore power attached 

We don't have a condensation problem but we never close all the windows. 

Re being blown about, yes they are more susceptible to windy conditions but you learn how to handle the boat and we don't find this a problem. In fact because of the slight V bottom she's copes much bettor than a flat bottomed boat in "rough"  condition 

We have cruised the length of the Caledonian canal (including loch Ness) and have had several trips on the Forth and Clyde estuaries. Trips we probably wouldn't have done in a flat bottomed boat

Haggis 

 

[Grebe]

11 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

Didn't one accompany Chris Coburn somewhere  like the Menai Strait t

Yes it did.  However it was not just on a whim.

It was done by Ray Shepperd the then owner/MD of Sea Otter in I think Little Ruby.  Ray had been sailing 'rag and stick' from a marina on Menai for a long time with good localknowledge, and most of us on here are familiar with Chris Cowburns skills and adventures in his sea-going narrowboat. The Sea otter was modified for the trip with a full deck being fitted over the foreward well-deck and rubber flap-valves over the front well-deck drains to prevent water entering via that route.

As with all boat trips they waited for tidal and weather condition to be suitable - like we all do.

[loaferm8]

Our 40 ' widebeam Sea Otter is fitted with a Zinc Saver II Galvanic Isolator (30 amp) certified to ISO 8846 and part of the original spec so far as I am aware. The boat was built late 2003 and launched 2004. Since buying her in Dec 2015 at Littlehampton we had the hull   surveyed and checked with no faults or pitting observed at all before taking her across the Channel onto Calais and south of Paris.  On pulling out for   wintering on the hard in Central France we again had the hull jet washed and checked before blacking and it was in excellent condition. However this may not be the same for all Sea Otters as this was a commissined by the original owner as a particularly high spec widebeam and only a few were made to my knoweldge. Having said that we have previously hired a 46' narrowboat Sea Otter in Cambridge which had a similar device. Zince Saver II as fitted was manufactured/ supplied by  Professional Mariner LLC in California and the origiinal spec leaflet in the noat file is dated 1999, however it would appear that Sterling may have taken them over as they sell an identically named model widely available on ebay and the internet through yahct brokers.

So far as condensation is concerned we have had issues in the wheelhouse which has stained some of the joinery but managing the ventillation definately makes a difference ad we have stayed aboard in winter weeks without problem. A karcher window vac is also handy and works brilliantly! The boat has Webasto warm air on a 7 day timer with thermostat which works well.

So far as stability is concerned we found her remarkably well planted with its water ballast she  weighs about 20T in the water. ( The fin keel as makes a significant difference IMHO). We have had no issues at all on the Channel crossing despite it being very lively at times, nor on the Rhone or  the Etang de Thau in the  Camargue which is a 17km open water lake right on the Med where we encountered some serious wind. The boat has 'flap valves' as described above and is rated as a Cat C, although we took the precaution of sealing the other two flaps (the cat flaps) on our channel crossing!

Hope this helps.