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Does anyone know this ice breaker location

canalboat

By canalboat
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WotEver Veteran II

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31 minutes ago, Rose Narrowboats said:

If you flip the image it could easily be just north of Hartshill heading south. Zoomed in there are buildings to the right (in the flipped image) of the bush which look about right for the maintenance yard and that bit is quite wide as per the photo, but there are no trees behind the towingpath hedge there these days. Has anyone got any old photos of that stretch?

By Jove, I think you may be onto something there :)

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Dave Payne Influencer

Dave Payne

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Posted
32 minutes ago, Rose Narrowboats said:

If you flip the image it could easily be just north of Hartshill heading south. Zoomed in there are buildings to the right (in the flipped image) of the bush which look about right for the maintenance yard and that bit is quite wide as per the photo, but there are no trees behind the towingpath hedge there these days. Has anyone got any old photos of that stretch?

The trees dont match for that though, from bridge 33 to bridge 32 there are no trees on the twopath side.

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Peter X Experienced

Peter X

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Several random thoughts:

The towpath on the right tells us that the photo is the right way round, as I think it would be very rare for a towpath to be moved to the other side of a canal. So they are heading north, and I'd have thought that Hartshill would refer to the depot there. 

Were animals other than horses ever used for towing? Zooming in it does look to me like a man standing in front of a horse on the towpath.

That looks like a lot of crew they've got there. I know labour was cheap but really!? Are they all trying to rock the boat, and does it indicate that the dredging on the Coventry left something to be desired back then too?

As hand colouring of sepia prints was common in the late 19th and early 20th century and workmen's clothing didn't alter a lot, I'm guessing this photo is anywhere from about 80 to 150 years old. That's plenty of time for any vegetation to be cut down or to grow, including full size trees, so I wouldn't look to that for clues.

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cuthound Veteran II

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Posted
Posted

The canal would be losing toll income when frozen over, hence the labour intensive method of ice breaking.

Rocking the boat broke the ice more effectively.

Boats would follow the ice breaker closely to help keep the channel open as well as getting to their destination quicker.

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Neil2 Veteran

Neil2

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Posted (edited)

If it is the Coventry canal at Hartshill I reckon it can only be the stretch between bridges 30 and 31.

It appears that a line of trees was planted on the towpath side sometime around 1890 -1900 to shield the canal from the sewage works, (which were subsequently moved to the other side of the railway).  That could be the trees in the photo.  Looking at this old map from 1901 http://maps.nls.uk/view/101593011 there's also a single tree on the off side which could be the isolated tree in the photo.

An older map from 1888 shows a field boundary, part of which is an extension of Apple Pie Lane, that looks as though it was severed by the canal.  That could be the location of the mystery Hangmans Bridge, maybe there was originally an "accommodation" bridge there to access the other side of the field.  Again, it's in the right place for the photo location. 

This is all probably wrong and it's not even the Coventry canal.. 

Edit - Actually looking closer at the old map I'm more confident now as the tress are indicated as a mixture of evergreens and deciduous which in the photo they clearly are.

 

Edited by Neil2
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canalboat Community Regular

canalboat

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16 minutes ago, Neil2 said:

If it is the Coventry canal at Hartshill I reckon it can only be the stretch between bridges 30 and 31.

It appears that a line of trees was planted on the towpath side sometime around 1890 -1900 to shield the canal from the sewage works, (which were subsequently moved to the other side of the railway).  That could be the trees in the photo.  Looking at this old map from 1901 http://maps.nls.uk/view/101593011 there's also a single tree on the off side which could be the isolated tree in the photo.

An older map from 1888 shows a field boundary, part of which is an extension of Apple Pie Lane, that looks as though it was severed by the canal.  That could be the location of the mystery Hangmans Bridge, maybe there was originally an "accommodation" bridge there to access the other side of the field.  Again, it's in the right place for the photo location. 

This is all probably wrong and it's not even the Coventry canal.. 

 

 

So if we accept the pic is flipped and they are going South and, I read that map correctly, the question you raise is -  did Apple Pie Lane ever go over Hangman's Bridge?

I now know that the handwriting on the back which refers to Hangman's was by a boater who knew the area well and was unlikely to make an historical mistake. Sadly he is no longer with us to ask.

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Neil2 Veteran

Neil2

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1 minute ago, canalboat said:

So if we accept the pic is flipped and they are going South and, I read that map correctly, the question you raise is -  did Apple Pie Lane ever go over Hangman's Bridge?

I now know that the handwriting on the back which refers to Hangman's was by a boater who knew the area well and was unlikely to make an historical mistake. Sadly he is no longer with us to ask.

No the picture is the right way round, the towpath is on the far side looking north west.

But yes my theory is that where Apple Pie lane takes a sharp left before the canal it originally went straight on and there was a bridge, long since disappeared.  The old boundary of the lane - which used to continue down to the canal and continue on the other side before the sewage works was built - suggests this.   It's clear that the picture wasn't taken from a bridge across the canal and that tends to support the view that it was taken from a bridge location, possibly still known locally as Hangmans Bridge.   All this requires a leap of faith of course, it's a shame the online maps don't go back any further as a depiction of that bridge would surely solve the puzzle.

 

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Dave Payne Influencer

Dave Payne

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11 minutes ago, Neil2 said:

No the picture is the right way round, the towpath is on the far side looking north west.

But yes my theory is that where Apple Pie lane takes a sharp left before the canal it originally went straight on and there was a bridge, long since disappeared.  The old boundary of the lane - which used to continue down to the canal and continue on the other side before the sewage works was built - suggests this.   It's clear that the picture wasn't taken from a bridge across the canal and that tends to support the view that it was taken from a bridge location, possibly still known locally as Hangmans Bridge.   All this requires a leap of faith of course, it's a shame the online maps don't go back any further as a depiction of that bridge would surely solve the puzzle.

 

I agree with this!

When cruising past the canal narrows very slightly, at the first boat on the moorings, outside the little bungalow, i believe a bridge was here some time ago, i also believe it was before the yard was built, which i think was in the 1840's ?

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Dave Payne Influencer

Dave Payne

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2 minutes ago, canalboat said:

Thanks folks. I think its time to get the car out and have a look around there.

i was thinking of popping over on the weekend, if you go down apple pie lane, there are boats moored on the offside, you will see on google maps, might be worth taking the photo and asking if you can have a look from the bank, i would suggest back towards the house, away from the bridge with a house on.

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WotEver Veteran II

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31 minutes ago, Dave Payne said:

yeah I found that yesterday, its a good walk from the canal though, in fact I remember walking over there with my dad about 20 years ago...

Yes, it’s close to the entrance to the Hartshill Water Treatment plant which as you say isn’t very close to the canal at all.  

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Neil2 Veteran

Neil2

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26 minutes ago, WotEver said:

Yes, it’s close to the entrance to the Hartshill Water Treatment plant which as you say isn’t very close to the canal at all.  

The plot thickens...  the water treatment plant used to be next to the canal (post #34 refers) I wonder if they moved the bridge when they moved the works...:giggles:

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canalboat Community Regular

canalboat

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Hey, you have found a Hangman's Bridge at Hartshill. What are the chances of that?

That would seem to add power to the handwritten comment on the back of the picture. 
IF it was the bridge over the railway that was called that name by some, then it is very believable that over many decades, others may have thought it was a bridge over the canal, or visa versa.

Whatever, I am now confident that the picture location is near Hartshill.

Thank you all

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