Mooring rings - how far apart?

[cuthound]

You would think that someone would invent something instead of rings,  you know a portable "ring" attached to a long metal spike, so it could be hammered into the ground where needed.

Something for Bizzard to ponder upon I think. 

[Tacet]

49 minutes ago, Machpoint005 said:

Which mathematical genius can tell us what the ideal spacing would be? I'd be surprised if you could get away with any less than one ring every 1.5 metres, if everyone is going to be happy.

Next time you put stakes into the bank (on an uninterrupted length), consider how precisely you like to place them.  Say + or - 1m.  Add the tolerances for each end together, double it and you have the first approximation of an answer. It gets more complicated if there are obstructions or gaps to take account.

In the theoretical world, assuming you wished to minimise the number of rings, you could have varying intervals to allow you to find the sweet spot for your boat.  I.e. you place the blunt end in the preferred position where the rings are 5 or 10 m apart and that means the sharp end lands where the rings are, say 1m apart. 

Different length boats, differing personal tolerances and only a few available spaces all mess up the theory.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ditchcrawler]

32 minutes ago, cuthound said:

You would think that someone would invent something instead of rings,  you know a portable "ring" attached to a long metal spike, so it could be hammered into the ground where needed.

Something for Bizzard to ponder upon I think. 

I think some people in London have done that but for some reason the electricity supply company gets upset

[cuthound]

Just now, ditchcrawler said:

I think some people in London have done that but for some reason the electricity supply company gets upset

Flash b*****ds 

[adam1uk]

3 hours ago, john6767 said:

Usually the spacing does not work for our boat (50ft), but then everyone seems to be saying that! 

The one place that the spacing does work well is in the centre of Birmingham, where it is 4 bollards, so 3 spaces, which makes the spacing about 20ft, possibly slightly less.

Birmingham is exactly wrong for us at 58.5ft.  Lines are either at right angles, or extraordinarily long.  When we were at the Oozells St Loop last month, the boat in front was 'reverse moored', as we call it -- so was overhanging the bollard.  Sharing it would have meant a stupidly long line, so we had no option but to leave a gap and moor with our lines at right angles.  Which just goes to show that some of the gaps in moored boats are caused by the spacing of rings or bollards.

[Laurie Booth]

1 hour ago, cuthound said:

You would think that someone would invent something instead of rings,  you know a portable "ring" attached to a long metal spike, so it could be hammered into the ground where needed.

Something for Bizzard to ponder upon I think. 

 

[john6767]

18 minutes ago, adam1uk said:

Birmingham is exactly wrong for us at 58.5ft.  Lines are either at right angles, or extraordinarily long.  When we were at the Oozells St Loop last month, the boat in front was 'reverse moored', as we call it -- so was overhanging the bollard.  Sharing it would have meant a stupidly long line, so we had no option but to leave a gap and moor with our lines at right angles.  Which just goes to show that some of the gaps in moored boats are caused by the spacing of rings or bollards.

Not sharing the bollard, tut tut, that's you off my Christmas card list then 

If they are right angles for you then that ties in, at a bit under 20ft spacing.  There is no good answer really, except to put in more. 

I thought they were going to replace the bollards in Birmingham with rings at some point, that would be a good opportunity to add another between each one, but possibly it could be counter productive and encourage people not to share.

[Machpoint005]

1 hour ago, Tacet said:

Next time you put stakes into the bank (on an uninterrupted length), consider how precisely you like to place them.  Say + or - 1m.  Add the tolerances for each end together, double it and you have the first approximation of an answer. It gets more complicated if there are obstructions or gaps to take account.

In the theoretical world, assuming you wished to minimise the number of rings, you could have varying intervals to allow you to find the sweet spot for your boat.  I.e. you place the blunt end in the preferred position where the rings are 5 or 10 m apart and that means the sharp end lands where the rings are, say 1m apart. 

Different length boats, differing personal tolerances and only a few available spaces all mess up the theory.

This is a reasonable theory, but in the real world there are 'other boats' which may or may not use the rings in an efficient manner, and someone may already have taken your 'ideal' pair of rings. The more rings there are, the less likely it is that they will be shared. In some cases where mooring pins are used, lines can even cross each other (that's the best way of packing boats in, allowing the bow and stern fenders to do their job). 

Never underestimate the Mk 1 human brain's innate ability to foul things up.  

Edited October 12, 2017 by Machpoint005
to save space!

[Neil2]

It's a real pain if the rings are just not in the right place and the mooring site isn't suitable for driving in pins.

In addition to the normal bow/stern T stud/dollies our boat has three anchor points recessed into/along the gunnels each side, one midships and two a few feet back from the bow/stern..  A bit like the fender eyes you sometimes see on gunnels but much more substantial.  They are extremely useful when tying up to rings/bollards and when setting spring lines.  At a push I can tie up securely to a single ring and have done many times.  I'm surprised more boats don't have these but I've actually never seen another narrowboat with such a feature.  

[alan_fincher]

2 hours ago, Tacet said:

Next time you put stakes into the bank (on an uninterrupted length), consider how precisely you like to place them.  Say + or - 1m.  Add the tolerances for each end together, double it and you have the first approximation of an answer. It gets more complicated if there are obstructions or gaps to take account.

In the theoretical world, assuming you wished to minimise the number of rings, you could have varying intervals to allow you to find the sweet spot for your boat.  I.e. you place the blunt end in the preferred position where the rings are 5 or 10 m apart and that means the sharp end lands where the rings are, say 1m apart. 

Different length boats, differing personal tolerances and only a few available spaces all mess up the theory.

It also depends if you have the luxury of more than one place near either end of the boat that you can attach a mooring rope to.

Both our boats being "historics" have anser pins set several feet forward of the main dollys on the back deck.

If the spacing is not right using the dollies, sometimes using an anser pin instead will give better angles on the ropes.

There is also the possibilty of tying to the ring on the back end rail, at the front of the engine room, but, being higher up, doesn't really work as well, as it is more likely to help induce roll if someone speeds past, (a bit like trying to use a centre line from a cabin roof, though nothing like as bad a that in reality).

[BWM]

When Crt decided to cut off all the original rings on our moorings, the replacements were put in at five metre intervals. All others locally have a similar spacing. 

[roland elsdon]

If you use the rings at Stockton opposite Warwickshire flyboat you will find something strange

ring 70 foot apart then a ring 10 foot away, from each of the rings.

it used to be our mooring , one day the nice bwb came along and put a ring in where our mooring pins were. Because the motor was on the outside and heavier than the butty there were Spring lines out. Hence bizarre ring spacing. In those days there was water rubbish and car parking on that mooring. We left a year later.

[ditchcrawler]

2 hours ago, Neil2 said:

It's a real pain if the rings are just not in the right place and the mooring site isn't suitable for driving in pins.

In addition to the normal bow/stern T stud/dollies our boat has three anchor points recessed into/along the gunnels each side, one midships and two a few feet back from the bow/stern..  A bit like the fender eyes you sometimes see on gunnels but much more substantial.  They are extremely useful when tying up to rings/bollards and when setting spring lines.  At a push I can tie up securely to a single ring and have done many times.  I'm surprised more boats don't have these but I've actually never seen another narrowboat with such a feature.  

I will when I get a round touit

[WotEver]

It’s all a load of bollards. 

[Mike Todd]

21 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

Yes but it blunts them driving them through concrete 

Just don't do what someone did on the Regents Canal a year or two back and drive it straight into a power cable! Makes the notion of a 'bright spark' rather  interesting! 

[ditchcrawler]

23 minutes ago, Mike Todd said:

Just don't do what someone did on the Regents Canal a year or two back and drive it straight into a power cable! Makes the notion of a 'bright spark' rather  interesting! 

I did that one in #28

[Grassman]

18 hours ago, Neil2 said:

It's a real pain if the rings are just not in the right place and the mooring site isn't suitable for driving in pins.

In addition to the normal bow/stern T stud/dollies our boat has three anchor points recessed into/along the gunnels each side, one midships and two a few feet back from the bow/stern..  A bit like the fender eyes you sometimes see on gunnels but much more substantial.  They are extremely useful when tying up to rings/bollards and when setting spring lines.  At a push I can tie up securely to a single ring and have done many times.  I'm surprised more boats don't have these but I've actually never seen another narrowboat with such a feature.  

I had some welded onto the gunnels each side. One at the front level with where the cabin starts, one in the middle, and one where the cabin starts at the back of my cruiser stern. Some will think that's a bit over the top, but they are really useful and give so much flexibility when bollards/rings are poorly placed and are great for making spring lines.

[Mike Todd]

On 12/10/2017 at 21:25, ditchcrawler said:

I did that one in #28

I did see that - my post was sent before I received yours but did not think it worth commenting . . . 

However, given the potentially lethal consequence it does not hurt to remind people again.