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Inverter choice - peak power


tonyreptiles

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Hi All,

 

we're having a domestic washing machine and a 240v fridge installed on our boat.

Can anyone tell me what size inverter I'd need? I understand it has something to do with peak power outputs, but I'm none the wiser as to what to look for. 

 

Thanks

TR

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By far the biggest user is the washing machines heater, we have a thermostatic mixer valve (set to 42 degrees) to feed the cold fill water input. Using a 40degree cycle the heater doesn’t come on.

having said that, we have a 3,000watt PSW inverter to cover all eventualities, but it’s much cheaper electrically wise to use hot water generated when were travelling.

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17 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

That depends on the size of your washing machine mostly, as that will use the most power.

When you say 'the size of your washing machine' what are we looking for exactly? Is it the kWh? Or is there some other measure? 
I can't find any other measure in the manual
 

Thanks
TR

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10 hours ago, steve hayes said:

we have a 3,000watt PSW inverter to cover all eventualities, 

 

I've been advised that the 3000 watt version by Victron is the gold standard...

https://www.midlandchandlers.co.uk/store/product/vv-007.aspx

... but it seems a bit of a jump from the price of other 3000 watt inverters on the market.

https://www.sunshinesolar.co.uk/prodshow/3000W___24V_Pure_Sine_Wave_Sunshine_Power_Inverter/VP300024.html?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI3ceR54_o1gIVwhXTCh3APQ-REAQYASABEgLcAfD_BwE

Are the Victrons really that much better? 

What's the difference? 

 

Thanks
TR

 

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6 minutes ago, tonyreptiles said:

When you say 'the size of your washing machine' what are we looking for exactly? Is it the kWh? Or is there some other measure? 
I can't find any other measure in the manual
 

Thanks
TR

The KWh is just the number of watts used during a 'period of time' (maybe 1 hour, or maybe 12 months) what you need to identify is the 'peak' consumption for the times when the heater element is 'on'

The majority of auto washing machines will be around 2kw - 2.5kw but some of the modern 'small' (flat sized) ones can be as low as 1800w - I seem to remember that someone actually said they had found one at 1600w get a 2500 or 3000 watt inverter and you will be OK.

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9 minutes ago, tonyreptiles said:

... but it seems a bit of a jump from the price of other 3000 watt inverters on the market.

Do a search on YouTube for 'Chinese Inverters Catch Fire'

 

Yes if you cannot afford the Best (MasterVolt) you can go for 2nd best (Victron) or as a last resort 3rd best (Sterling)

If you buy 'ebay specials' then make sue your insurance is up to date and you are covered for 'gross negligence'.

Just noticed the one you liked to is 24 volt - are you a 24v boat ?

 

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22 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Do a search on YouTube for 'Chinese Inverters Catch Fire'

 

Yes if you cannot afford the Best (MasterVolt) you can go for 2nd best (Victron) or as a last resort 3rd best (Sterling)

If you buy 'ebay specials' then make sue your insurance is up to date and you are covered for 'gross negligence'.

Just noticed the one you liked to is 24 volt - are you a 24v boat ?

 

Scare mongering again...

 

6 months with my sunshine inverter, still no flames after running washing machine, hair dryer, hair straightners, toaster, tv....

 

 

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32 minutes ago, tonyreptiles said:

I've been advised that the 3000 watt version by Victron is the gold standard...

https://www.midlandchandlers.co.uk/store/product/vv-007.aspx

... but it seems a bit of a jump from the price of other 3000 watt inverters on the market.

https://www.sunshinesolar.co.uk/prodshow/3000W___24V_Pure_Sine_Wave_Sunshine_Power_Inverter/VP300024.html?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI3ceR54_o1gIVwhXTCh3APQ-REAQYASABEgLcAfD_BwE

Are the Victrons really that much better? 

What's the difference? 

 

Thanks
TR

 

Well the first one is a Combi not a straight inverter, it is also 12 volts but only 1600 watt rated, the second is just an inverter, it is 3000 Watt but it requires 24 volts input so the 2 are not at all similar. All so it a lot cheaper at https://www.ebcmarine.com/victron/victron-inverter-chargers-multi/victron-easyplus-12-1600-70-16-call-for-best-price

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26 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Yes if you cannot afford the Best (MasterVolt) you can go for 2nd best (Victron) or as a last resort 3rd best (Sterling)

 

For the record, I can 'afford' a gold plated Mastervolt installed by a team of naked Phillapino virgins - should I so wish.

I'm rather more interested in the value achieved by paying for more expensive models. If the added value of a Mastervolt can be demonstrated to me, then I'll go for that - but probably without the gold and the virgins as these add no a value in my opinion. 

What do you get for your extra £££ if you buy a Mastervolt over a Victron or Stirling?  What's the difference?

I get your point about the ebay cheapo specials.

And thanks for pointing out the model in my link was 24v - I hadn't noticed. 

 

Cheers

TR

 

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2 minutes ago, tonyreptiles said:

For the record, I can 'afford' a gold plated Mastervolt installed by a team of naked Phillapino virgins - should I so wish.

I'm rather more interested in the value achieved by paying for more expensive models. If the added value of a Mastervolt can be demonstrated to me, then I'll go for that - but probably without the gold and the virgins as these add no a value in my opinion. 

What do you get for your extra £££ if you buy a Mastervolt over a Victron or Stirling?  What's the difference?

I get your point about the ebay cheapo specials.

And thanks for pointing out the model in my link was 24v - I hadn't noticed. 

 

Cheers

TR

 

But the main point was they are different things, The expensive one is a 4 stage battery charger with an inverter that probably has a load sharing system so if you get up to your 16 amps from the shore supply the inverter automatically tops it up. If your shore supply mains fail you wont even notice a flicker on your TV as the inverter would take over seamlessly. You can also buy it for much less than you listed. I have a Mastervolt inverter, no charger and for me it was the high efficiency and low quesent (spelt wrong) current.

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18 minutes ago, tonyreptiles said:

Thanks mrross

It's an ancient AEG LAVAMAT 16800 washer dryer - although we have no intention of using the dryer. 

I'm thinking it may just be worth getting a lower consumption washer or twin tub, just to be on the safe side. 

1

Can you find the PNC, product number on the washer?  It might be inside the door.  With this we can download the 'product fiche' which lists the energy and water useage of your machine. 

http://www.aeg.co.uk/support/support/download-product-fiche/

A cheap twin tub is an excellent thing to have on a boat and will use less energy and water.  The spin is remarkably effective too.  It can wash and spin a load in about 30 minutes.

How do I find my model number / PNC?

Edited by mross
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7 minutes ago, mross said:

Can you find the PNC, product number on the washer?  It might be inside the door.  With this we can download the 'product fiche' which lists the energy and water useage of your machine. 

http://www.aeg.co.uk/support/support/download-product-fiche/

A cheap twin tub is an excellent thing to have on a boat and will use less energy and water.  The spin is remarkably effective too.  It can wash and spin a load in about 30 minutes.

How do I find my model number / PNC?extrememly

We have  twin-tubs on both boats.

Very effective, extremely economical on both water and electricity (180w I think) and the clothes come out of the spinner dryer than those out of an automatic washing machine.

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50 minutes ago, Dave Payne said:

Scare mongering again...

 

6 months with my sunshine inverter, still no flames after running washing machine, hair dryer, hair straightners, toaster, tv....

 

 

Those Sunshine Solar Inverters are Good, have used the 3 KW 12 Volt version for Several years with no problems.

My previous Mastervolt one worked well for 10 years but eventually failed, took it apart to find that it had Chinese Components..... 

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5 minutes ago, cereal tiller said:

Those Sunshine Solar Inverters are Good, have used the 3 KW 12 Volt version for Several years with no problems.

My previous Mastervolt one worked well for 10 years but eventually failed, took it apart to find that it had Chinese Components..... 

Virtually everything has Chinese components they are one of the few countries that makes them. Its the quality control that is the important bit.

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35 minutes ago, mross said:

Can you find the PNC, product number on the washer?  It might be inside the door.  With this we can download the 'product fiche' which lists the energy and water useage of your machine. 

http://www.aeg.co.uk/support/support/download-product-fiche/

A cheap twin tub is an excellent thing to have on a boat and will use less energy and water.  The spin is remarkably effective too.  It can wash and spin a load in about 30 minutes.

How do I find my model number / PNC?

The product number is 914601513
Thanks you so much for your help - if we can find out the peak draw for this washing machine we can be confident of buying the right size of inverter. yes?

I'd be very interested to know what kind of twin-tub people are using - it sounds like a good option considering we want to use as least power as possible. 

Thanks again
TR
 

 

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Just now, tonyreptiles said:

The product number is 914601513
Thanks you so much for your help - if we can find out the peak draw for this washing machine we can be confident of buying the right size of inverter. yes?

I'd be very interested to know what kind of twin-tub people are using - it sounds like a good option considering we want to use as least power as possible. 

Thanks again
TR
 

 

You should consider connecting the washing machine to the hot water supply also to save the heater kicking in, i have done this and it works just fine, my inverter is only 1200 watts and does not trip out during the wash cycle.

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31 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

We have  twin-tubs on both boats.

Very effective, extremely economical on both water and electricity (180w I think) and the clothes come out of the spinner dryer than those out of an automatic washing machine.

 

That's very interesting, especially as now this is the third conversation I've had which favours these low consumption twin-tubs.

Can you tell me which model/brand/type of twin-tub it is? We'd probably be up for getting one. 

Thanks

TR

Just now, Dave Payne said:

You should consider connecting the washing machine to the hot water supply also to save the heater kicking in, i have done this and it works just fine, my inverter is only 1200 watts and does not trip out during the wash cycle.

That's very interesting indeed!

I currently have a 1200 watt Mobitronic inverter. 

Very interesting indeed. 

The situation we're in is that we're currently having some major work done to the boat and the costs are spiralling out of control, so we're looking for ways to use the appliances we already have instead of buying new ones. We can upgrade at a later date, but we don't want to buy new kit which becomes obsolete when our situation changes. 

Thanks

TR

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58 minutes ago, tonyreptiles said:

For the record, I can 'afford' a gold plated Mastervolt installed by a team of naked Phillapino virgins - should I so wish.

I'm rather more interested in the value achieved by paying for more expensive models. If the added value of a Mastervolt can be demonstrated to me, then I'll go for that - but probably without the gold and the virgins as these add no a value in my opinion. 

What do you get for your extra £££ if you buy a Mastervolt over a Victron or Stirling?  What's the difference?

I get your point about the ebay cheapo specials.

And thanks for pointing out the model in my link was 24v - I hadn't noticed. 

 

Cheers

TR

 

We have a Mastervolt inverter - well a Combi actually. It just works. You see quite a few threads on here with people having problems with Victron stuff - it is just slightly flaky compared to Mastervolt. Sterling more flaky.

Anyway an important point just mentioned by someone else is the current the inverter takes when it is not powering anything (or anything much, eg a phone charger). Some of the cheaper ones use a lot of current just sitting there, our Mastervolt uses about 0.7A and that is in full power mode, there are other power saving modes whereby it uses less. This means that you can just leave it on 24/7 as we do, and not worry about it. Alternatively you can get a cheaper make with much higher power consumption which you keep switched off when not actually using it.  If you are the sort to like that idea, it will be little hassle as when you get up to turn it on every time you want to use it, you will presumbaly be getting up anyway to put on another hair shirt and find some nettles to flagellate yourself with, before getting another candle out to heat the boat. Sterling ones seem to have particularly idling high power consumption.

Then there are the quality issues hinted at by others. Chinese branded inverters tend to be built to a poor standard. They may work fine for years, they may break down just out of warranty. They may go on fire next week, they may not. Of course a Mastervolt inverter could possibly go on fire, but statistically it is much less likely. Are you a gambling type of chap?

Cheap inverters are built down to a price with lower rated and thus more stressed components, less inherent protection. More expensive inverters are thus because they are better designed to be resilient.

I have a cheapo chinese inverter in my caravan, it works fine but it is only switched on to watch the telly when I am there for the odd weekend, and I am always present when it is on. Plus the caravan isn't worth much.

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The other thing with Mastervolt and Victron inverters is quality of output.

Their waveforms are much smoother sine wave than some of the cheaper ones and much smoother than any modified sine wave output inverter.

You often get people on here complaining that electronically controlled washing machines (most are now), electric toothbrush chargers etc won't work on cheaper inverters. 

It is because the inverters output waveform is too distorted for the sensitive electronics.

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27 minutes ago, tonyreptiles said:

Can you tell me which model/brand/type of twin-tub it is? We'd probably be up for getting one.

There are a number of 'brands' about but they all look pretty much the same with different labels on.

Cost around £80

Available from larger camping / camper van shops

Try  : Stewart Longton Caravans and Motorhomes Lancaster 

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I asssume you intend to be using the washing machine when travelling?  We have a 3KW Victron and an 110Amp alternator but when we first used the washing machine with the engine running we saw over 100 amps coming out of the batteries on my NASA when the heater kicked in because the alternator could only cope with about half the current load required for the heater. I calculated that  my machine heater draws about 220 amps.  I could have replumbed and used the hot water supply but a simpler solution is to put a kettle of hot water down the soap tray followed by some hot water from the hot tap (with a little hose thingy).  The heater never has to kick in and we get a very good wash - probably because its a lot hotter than the heater would give.

Edited by larryjc
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