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Documentation required for Inland European Waterway cruising


Daid Wright

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Not actually new to boating but returning after some 35 years, now that we are retired. We have found lots of information on your forums and other sites. So far we are away revised radio licences, CEVNI endorsement, the ICC, River usuage licence ie vignette. But I am confused about the RYA Power boat level 2 up to 10 meters. It seems to read that it is required for pleasure boats over 10 meters and travelling off shore to distances up to 12 miles, by which I believe they mean a Day Skipper Licence.

Is there a requirement for certification for Inland Waters measuring over 10 meters to have a separate endorsement? If so where would I find the details?

Any help I can get would be much appreciated so I can get on with finding my new boat. 

David

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Absolutely no personal qualifications needed for   inland waterways and I very much doubt for UK estuary, coastal and offshore work. However that does not mean in the latter cases it might not be sensible.

The boat will require certification (Boat Safety Scheme Inspection) plus the relevant licensing for the inland waterways in the UK.

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1 hour ago, Daid Wright said:

Not actually new to boating but returning after some 35 years, now that we are retired. We have found lots of information on your forums and other sites. So far we are away revised radio licences, CEVNI endorsement, the ICC, River usuage licence ie vignette. But I am confused about the RYA Power boat level 2 up to 10 meters. It seems to read that it is required for pleasure boats over 10 meters and travelling off shore to distances up to 12 miles, by which I believe they mean a Day Skipper Licence.

Is there a requirement for certification for Inland Waters measuring over 10 meters to have a separate endorsement? If so where would I find the details?

Any help I can get would be much appreciated so I can get on with finding my new boat. 

David

Do you mean "what is required for UK Inland Waterways", or "what is required for European Inland waterways"?

For UK waters you need

Boat Licence

Insurance

Boat Safety Certificate

 

You do not need any qualification to 'drive' a boat.

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You say European Inland Waterways and your address is France. Tony has replied re the UK, but is that where you will cruise?

I see you mention ICC with inland endorsement (knowledge of CEVNI Rules), radio user's certificate and a vignette so I assume you are more thinking of continental Europe. The detail depends upon the length of craft you fetch up with, but assuming you cruise only on inland waterways an ICC will satisfy for craft to 40m+ if it is for private pleasure cruising. If you take even one paying guest you need something more, and the French Extension Grande Plaisance (EGP) would do. There were two other threads in the past week asking similar questions and I did put this link there but here it is again http://www.bargehandling.com/Bargehandling.com/BARGE_HANDLING_BLOG/Entries/2016/11/4_Certification_for_helmsmen_of_Pleasure_Craft_onInland_Waterwaysin_Europe.html

That will tell you more or less everything you need. You will have to have insurance of course, and paperwork to show your life jackets and fire extinguishers have been inspected within the timescale set out. It also depends upon where your boat is registered, and it will basically have to comply with the requirements of the country you are flagged in. At the moment a UK registered vessel is OK with that, but it will possibly change when/if UK leaves the family, as it would then be a foreign visitor and have more stringent controls.

There are also a lot of requirements for a vessel over 20m, but I've spent enough time here for now so will let you digest that lot first.

 

Tam

There aren't many canals in the massif centrale though :D

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On 08/10/2017 at 15:20, Daid Wright said:

Not actually new to boating but returning after some 35 years, now that we are retired. We have found lots of information on your forums and other sites. So far we are away revised radio licences, CEVNI endorsement, the ICC, River usuage licence ie vignette. But I am confused about the RYA Power boat level 2 up to 10 meters. It seems to read that it is required for pleasure boats over 10 meters and travelling off shore to distances up to 12 miles, by which I believe they mean a Day Skipper Licence.

Is there a requirement for certification for Inland Waters measuring over 10 meters to have a separate endorsement? If so where would I find the details?

Any help I can get would be much appreciated so I can get on with finding my new boat. 

David

I  am advised my RYA Helmsman qualification is sufficient ,together with the CEVNI exam to obtain the ICC for inland waterways. This can be verified from the RYA website but I don't have an exact reference for the page on their website but it will be somewhere around the following

http://www.rya.org.uk/knowledge-advice/boating-abroad/icc/Pages/boating-inland-and-cevni.aspx

I think the over 10m length thing relates to RYA powerboat training - which is aimed more at sea boats. 

http://www.boatability.co.uk/rya-leisure-courses/icc-power-over-10m/

. The RYA Helmsman qualification is a matter of attending a practical course including boat handling and taking an active interest - no difficulty at all. 

The CEVNI exam needs a little study . I have not done it but looked into the requirements and it doesnt look too challenging.

The vhf on your boat needs to be DSC type with ATIS capability . The VHF operators certificate  needs to be for DSC so if its 35 years since you had a VHF operators certificate it sounds like you will need to re-do the VHF training and obtain a new certificate.

 

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The link I gave before opened specifically at the "Steerer's Qualifications" entry, but there are also entries on VHF paperwork and usage too, see for complete topic list to date: http://www.bargehandling.com/Bargehandling.com/BARGE_HANDLING_BLOG/BARGE_HANDLING_BLOG.html

An ICC requires an practical element and a test of the appropriate rules - COLREGS for use at sea and CEVNI for Continental inland use. The practical can be done with a motor vessel or a sailing one, and a craft under 10m or one longer than this, and the ICC will be limited to the type/length of vessel the practical was done on. The Inland Waters Helmsman course you mention is the most usual way for UK canal boaters to gain the inland element, and would normally be done on a boat over 10m.

The VHF must be adapted for ATIS as you mention, but an old VHF user's certificate remains valid for life.

The CEVNI test is not too difficult as long as the applicant does his homework. If you are doing your boating on a leisure waterway like the Canal du Midi CEVNI has fairly little application, but canals in the north and in Belgium/Holland etc have serious large commercial traffic and the CEVNI rules do need to not only be known but understood - they're not just something invented by Johnny foreigner to make life difficult for visitors from the UK, an attitude unfortunately often implied by UK boat schools.

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CEVNI is not officially required in french waterways, it is pushed by rya, a knowledge is. we spent over a year in Franch canals and 3 years cruising the Med. The only document that IS required is the SSR number 'with the original' certificate every lock in france checks this, also in Italy, no one checked our passports or the animals passports. For personal satisfaction yes get some qualifications and enjoy. I have dinghy racing 1,2,3 powerboat 1,2,3 with rescue boat endorcement, inland waterways cert, boatmans licence, as assistant HM on east coast. day skipper, yachtmaster, 50 years sailing, nothing above required in uk. 

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I can't imagine where you get that from. Without looking through my files to quote the exact wording in the Reglement General de Police de Navigation every vessel on French waterways must be in command of/steered by a person with appropriate steerer's qualifictions. Once you leave tidal waters a qualification valid only for sea cruising is not valid. All French inland certificates require a test for knowledge of CEVNI rules - the computerised test is much more stringent than the piffling RYA one. There is a published list of non-French certificates that are execepted, and some (e.g. Swedish) which are not, specificaly because there is no test for knowledge of CEVNI involved with them.

You do need registry details of the vessel, but full Part 1 British Registry is obviously OK, and does also prove ownership, which the SSR does not.

The fact no-one demanded to see a full set of mandatory papers was just luck, but not a thing for people to rely on and inspections are becoming much more frequent now with the increase in leisure boating. I do know of a handful of people whose craft was effectively arrested and they were not allowed to continue until they had the essential documents.

I've had a quick look and Article 1.02.1 is the one. It says inter alia that the conductor (the person in charge) must hold a certificate of competence for the class of vessel and the waterway it cruises. It sets out the level of fine applicable for persons in default.

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1 hour ago, oats said:

CEVNI is not officially required in french waterways, it is pushed by rya, a knowledge is. we spent over a year in Franch canals and 3 years cruising the Med. The only document that IS required is the SSR number 'with the original' certificate every lock in france checks this, also in Italy, no one checked our passports or the animals passports. For personal satisfaction yes get some qualifications and enjoy. I have dinghy racing 1,2,3 powerboat 1,2,3 with rescue boat endorcement, inland waterways cert, boatmans licence, as assistant HM on east coast. day skipper, yachtmaster, 50 years sailing, nothing above required in uk. 

 

On 08/10/2017 at 16:20, Daid Wright said:

Not actually new to boating but returning after some 35 years, now that we are retired. We have found lots of information on your forums and other sites. So far we are away revised radio licences, CEVNI endorsement, the ICC, River usuage licence ie vignette. But I am confused about the RYA Power boat level 2 up to 10 meters. It seems to read that it is required for pleasure boats over 10 meters and travelling off shore to distances up to 12 miles, by which I believe they mean a Day Skipper Licence.

Is there a requirement for certification for Inland Waters measuring over 10 meters to have a separate endorsement? If so where would I find the details?

Any help I can get would be much appreciated so I can get on with finding my new boat. 

David

Thanks guys for all the information posted so far. Still a little confused about CEVNI and helming requirements, but still grateful.

I am intending to purchase a motor cruiser from Holland at the moment and keep the vessel on a Dutch mooring but not until next season. This should give me an opportunity to consult with the brokers who should know exactly what is required for my vessel size and documentation required. This will then give me time to establish what is required for short visits into Belgium and Germany.

Any specific information relating to these 3 countries would be greatly appreciated as will be the French rules for use at a later date.

Thanks again, please keep your assistance coming

David

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Di and I have commercial skipper tickets for Continental inland commercial craft to 180m. The only time I've had to show mine in 20 years in France was to validate a cheque in a supermarket

Edited by Tam & Di
spilling error be autospell
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What is it you are still confused about re CEVNI? I know it is difficult on any forum to know the validity of the advice you get. I have no interest in willy waving about experience, but my information is from the perspective of someone who worked as an RYA training school in France for 20 years, more significantly also as an instructor and examiner authorised by the French Department d'Affaires Maritimes for French licences for pleasure and commercial purposes. I have to know the law and the information I gave on the assumption you were talking of France is correct.

Now you say you will be buying in Holland that does change things slightly, and the size of boat becomes much more relevant. In the Netherlands there is no requirement for any steerer's certificate for craft under 15m and Germany accepts the ICC for craft to 15m, but I think I'm all done with writing on it for now though. Things may well have changed by the time you get your boat anyway.

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