Oh dear

[Laurie Booth]

1 hour ago, chubby said:

enlightening stuff - im glad i asked 

Thankyou 

enlightening stuff - im glad i asked . 

Thankyou

My pleasure

 

[Stilllearning]

Heritage is an unfortunate word sometimes but finding accurate alternatives can be difficult. Here in France the word "patrimoine" is translated (by me, at least) as heritage. Patrimoine doesn't seem to have the same negative connotations as heritage has acquired in the U.K. 

[Athy]

6 minutes ago, Stilllearning said:

Heritage is an unfortunate word sometimes but finding accurate alternatives can be difficult. Here in France the word "patrimoine" is translated (by me, at least) as heritage. Patrimoine doesn't seem to have the same negative connotations as heritage has acquired in the U.K. 

Doesn't "patrimoine" have a sense of local history? I remember attending a "weekend patrimoine" in the Ardeche a dozen or so years ago and the accent was firmly on history and traditions from that region.

I don't think that "heritage" has acquired negative connotations in the U.K.

[Ratkatcher]

Gin Palaces...  Ahh the good old days!   Drunk for a penny, dead drunk for tuppence

Then the governments introduced progressively heavy taxing on alcohol in an attempt to reduce the number of working days lost to drunkenness.

[MtB]

I too am unaware of negative associations with the word heritage. What are they please?

[Stilllearning]

Heritage, it seems to me, has become a convenient word to use in conjunction with a wide variety of products (heritage carrots), historical places or things, and the tourist industry. Often someone else's idea of "heritage" and designated as such by some bright spark in an office who thinks something is cool and thus heritage.

Rant over.

[Stilllearning]

3 hours ago, Athy said:

Doesn't "patrimoine" have a sense of local history? I remember attending a "weekend patrimoine" in the Ardeche a dozen or so years ago and the accent was firmly on history and traditions from that region.

I don't think that "heritage" has acquired negative connotations in the U.K.

Patrimoine means an awful lot of things in French. I looked up the French Wikipedia page and the disambiguation - what a fine word - page lists cultural, legal, economic, medical and environmental headings. The town we live in has a UNESCO designation for patrimoine immatériel. 

The width of uses of heritage can devalue it and lead to it getting negative connotations. IMHO of course.

[Vortex]

On 05/10/2017 at 19:52, roland elsdon said:

Stranger 'that's a nice heritage boat'

owner pardon?

stranger it's a heritage replica isn't it

owner no it's a narrowboat

stranger oh a barge 

I give up

How rude of them to take an interest and ask questions without educating themselves in advance.

[system 4-50]

8 minutes ago, Vortex said:

How rude of them to take an interest and ask questions without educating themselves in advance.

It is a particular style of English short conversation. You don't actually ask any open question, you just make assertions based on limited knowledge and invite confirmation / contradiction which you will complete ignore in your next conversation with somebody similar.

The substance of the entire conversation can be usually reduced to "I've noticed you exist" and "I've noticed you exist too".

[roland elsdon]

Correct.

i do not recognise the term heritage replica it is a convoluted conundrum .

i attempt to educate it is a narrowboat. (Craft of certain dimensions built to carry cargo on the canals for profit or reward)

the response was even more bizarre.

They were floating along on their canal cruiser ( craft built specifically for leisure with canal specific dimensions)

there were no barges present. Unless a wide beamed boat built for commercial use had suddenly been dropped in between napton top and marston doles.

yes I am a pedant.

[GUMPY]

32 minutes ago, roland elsdon said:

there were no barges present. Unless a wide beamed boat built for commercial use had suddenly been dropped in between napton top and marston doles.

yes I am a pedant.

Barges don't have to be wide any flat bottom cargo carrying boat is a barge even a narrowboat.......

[MtB]

2 hours ago, roland elsdon said:

Correct.

i do not recognise the term heritage replica it is a convoluted conundrum .

i attempt to educate it is a narrowboat. (Craft of certain dimensions built to carry cargo on the canals for profit or reward)

the response was even more bizarre.

They were floating along on their canal cruiser ( craft built specifically for leisure with canal specific dimensions)

there were no barges present. Unless a wide beamed boat built for commercial use had suddenly been dropped in between napton top and marston doles.

yes I am a pedant.

I too was under the impression a narrow boat was a subset of the set of flat bottomed boats termed 'barge' 

[DRP]

Gin Palace :  it's usually said in a somewhat negative tone, but I've always thought it sounds rather nicer than," Expensive floating shed for drinking with your mates, or conducting illicit liaisons.(or both, but not necessarily at the same time)."

 

Towing a butty: The late and fondly remembered Nigel Carter was bow hauling the Mary into a lock when a passing lady asked whether the boat had broken down. Nigel, adopting his most solemn expression and sonorous tone of voice replied, " No, I'm afraid the horse has died". The lady hurried to rejoin her companions exclaiming, "Did you hear that? His horse is dead". They all said, "Ooooh! what a shame!"

 

[roland elsdon]

I am happy to be informed and educated 

[mrsmelly]

22 hours ago, Athy said:

Yes. Gin palaces were big, ostentatious, fancily-decorated pubs built in Victorian times, when gin was a popular drink. One pub which I used to use (and where indeed I first met the future Mrs. Athy), an extravaganza of a place called The Princess Louise in High Holborn, is a fine surviving example.

Transfer such epithets as "ostentatious" and "gin, popular drink" to boats and I think you have your answer.

And at present Gin is the " Gimmick ) drink of the moment. It has been " Prosecco " lately but the gimmick now is Gin  

[Derek R.]

Patrimoine directly translated from the French into English means heritage, though as is often the case individual words used in different contexts can mean different things. Heritage is anything passed down from a previous generation be it history, customs, land, buildings or most anything. Our Nisa shop sells a line in biscuits called 'Heritage', but where's any connection? Maybe they have taken a recipe from some previous generation. But probably not. Misuse and abuse of a language is common, and most likely always has been on a whim or a fashion. Heritage clothing - something from the car boot sale or Church jumble?

A Gin Palace* on the Thames was always an oversized plastic cruiser with friends aboard at the weekend, often reporting on their VHF to their compatriots a few hundred yards behind about the weather or some nasty narrow boat that came within 20ft when passing. *The origins as per Athy's post.

Laurie - were your comments worth the effort? or were you just feeling lonely? Or did you win a prize - show and tell?

Edited October 8, 2017 by Derek R.
added text, which I probably shouldn't have. But - hey . . .

[Bee]

I like the word heritage. I used to be known as a bad tempered old git, now  I am a Heritage old git.

[Pluto]

14 hours ago, Loddon said:

Barges don't have to be wide any flat bottom cargo carrying boat is a barge even a narrowboat.......

A friend who served his time boat building at a yard on the L&LC in the 1940s suggested to me that, for him, a barge has a mounded width - the width over the frames -  of more than 14 feet. Anything less is a boat. This means that L&LC iron and steel boats are barges, but if made from wood are boats, as the thickness of the hull outside the frames makes the moulded width of the former just over 14 feet, while on the latter under 14 feet.

In Lancashire, L&LC men sometimes considered it a bit of an insult to be called a bargeman, rather than a boatman, as bargeman suggested they just moved barges around the docks. In Yorkshire there was not the same distinction, as the skills needed for working down the Humber in barges was equal, if not greater, than those needed on the canal.

[GUMPY]

That may well be a local adaptation but all the definitions of barge I can find define a barge along the lines of:

a long flat-bottomed boat for carrying freight on canals and rivers, either under its own power or towed by another.

synonyms:lighter, canal boat, flatboat; narrowboat, wherry; scow

[roland elsdon]

hmmm

Although some narrow boats were built to a design based on river barges and many conform to the strict definition of the term, it is incorrect to refer to a narrowboat (or narrow boat) as a barge. In the context of the British inland waterways, a barge is usually a much wider, cargo-carrying boat or a modern boat modelled on one, certainly more than 7 feet (2.13 m) wide.

Copying and pasting that caused a minor out of channel malfunction and complaints  that the subsequent roll made washing up fall over

[Pluto]

From recent research, I don't think any narrow boat was really based on existing boat construction. Last month I found detailed drawings of Coventry Canal boats done in 1795. The methods for fixing the planks and frames suggest that they were more likely to be built by local carpenters and millwrights, rather than by anyone who was used to boat building. I am continuing my research, and will hopefully have more information soon.

[X Alan W]

On 10/6/2017 at 21:00, cuthound said:

Yes, like you I was born to be wild (at least until 9:00 pm these days) 

I assume if you can last out that long you have had your 2 hour snooze after lunch

[cuthound]

2 minutes ago, X Alan W said:

I assume if you can last out that long you have had your 2 hour snooze after lunch

Lol 

[Laurie Booth]

3 hours ago, Derek R. said:

Laurie - were your comments worth the effort? or were you just feeling lonely? Or did you win a prize - show and tell?

I was feeling lonely.

 

[Derek R.]

Kindred spirits. "You are never alone with a Strand" - of good humour