Jump to content

Largest Movement of Historic Boats, at National Waterways Museum Ellesmere Port


Ray T

Featured Posts

18 minutes ago, Derek R. said:

Deconstructed, I think we may be able to source the origin of that in the contemporary from Master Chef - "deconstructed apple crumble" and the like. Taking the whole apart and presenting it as individual ingredients on the same plate. I prefer mine whole. Dismantling is usually part of a process of repair or rebuilding. Scrapping, is broken up - for scrap. Deconstruction is nonsense. Disassemble would be better. What ever happened to the English language, did that get deconstructed too? Or just changed for the sake of modernity?

Probably invented by the chef who dropped the pie on the floor on its journey from oven to plate and didn't want the lost profit being taken out of his salary. :P

  • Greenie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

32 minutes ago, Derek R. said:

Deconstructed, I think we may be able to source the origin of that in the contemporary from Master Chef - "deconstructed apple crumble" and the like. Taking the whole apart and presenting it as individual ingredients on the same plate. I prefer mine whole. Dismantling is usually part of a process of repair or rebuilding. Scrapping, is broken up - for scrap. Deconstruction is nonsense. Disassemble would be better. What ever happened to the English language, did that get deconstructed too? Or just changed for the sake of modernity?

I am never convinced that we need to use a negative version a verb, which often sounds clumsy, especially when a perfectly adequate one is already available eg. dismantle, which whilst starting with the same three letters is not the negative of any other verb. There is also no suggestion in any of my dictionaries suggesting that dismantling should only be used to describe a process that preceedes re assembly.

Where is Mike Atherton when we need him for a definitive answer.

Edited by David Schweizer
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, David Schweizer said:

I am never convinced that we need to use negative versions a verb, which often sounds clumsy, especially when a perfectly adequate one is already available eg. dismantle, which whilst starting with the same three letters is not the negative of any other verb. There is no suggestion in any of my dictionaries suggesting that dismantling should only be used to describe a process that preceedes re assembly.

Where is Mike Atherton when we need him for a definitive answer.

He's here, feeling gruntled.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

50 minutes ago, David Schweizer said:

So what have you got to feel pleased about?

As I thought, the word is not in the S.O.D., at least not in my mid-'70s edition.

Nor is "disassemble". The earliest use of the word which I can think of occurs in the American rewrite of the old song 'Oh My Darling Clementine', as recorded by Bobby Darin in 1960: "The whole bridge trembled and disassembled", which was presumably used for comic effect. In any case, its use there was obviously intransitive, meaning "fell to pieces", rather than the transitive use suggested earlier in this thread.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, Heritage172 said:
On 05/10/2017 at 15:25, Loddon said:

So that's it then another bunch of boats off the waterways and in the scrapyard cos there's no money.

No.

 

On 05/10/2017 at 15:06, Ray T said:

 Once on dry land, and in the newly developed dry store at the museum, the conservation team will be able to fully assess each vessel. Experts will consider several options depending on the condition and historical significance of each boat. These include whole or partial conservation or, where this is not possible, deconstruction. Boats will also have a 3D image created so that, even if the actual vessel has been deconstructed, an accurate record is captured for future study.

                                                                                                                                     

Clearly you didn't read the first post properly.

I read and fully understand the post, to me it reads like management speak for taking some pictures and scrapping. Considering their track record in conservation I think that I have hit the nail very firmly on the head.

  • Greenie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Loddon said:

I read and fully understand the post, to me it reads like management speak for taking some pictures and scrapping. Considering their track record in conservation I think that I have hit the nail very firmly on the head.

Considering the past performance of BW and now CRT, I share your pessimism. The entire logic is to reduce expenditure at maximum press exposure.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, matty40s said:

Considering the past performance of BW and now CRT, I share your pessimism. The entire logic is to reduce expenditure at maximum press exposure.

Surely their problem is that they never had the necessary expenditure in the first place, and they are merely trying to put the remains under some sort of control. As one of the few people who tried to save a wooden wide boat, I would suggest that the average canal enthusiast doesn't have a clue about the complexity of construction and maintenance of wide boats. That goes for many of those involved with the museum back in the late 1970s when the wide boats, now in such poor condition, were collected. However, they were kept and their construction can be researched. Had the museum not taken them, they would almost certainly have disappeared long ago, leaving a hole in our knowledge of inland waterway boat construction.

The real problem is that the importance of the collection was never recognised at a national level, so the museum never obtained sufficient funding for what people expected them to do.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

People ask for change at the museum year after year, people have complained about the sunken boats in the top basin... and now that the museum are finally doing something about it people are complaining...still. Do not be so quick to jump to conclusions Matty and loddon, let's give them a chance instead of knocking them for making and effort.

  • Greenie 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

For those fretting about the word "deconstruction", it is a standard term used by National Historic Ships and they publish a whole book about it, Deconstructing Historic Vessels, available as a free PDF from them here. It accompanies two others on Recording Historic Vessels and Conserving Historic Vessels, collectively intended to advise best practices for conserving vessels or, when that is not possible, recording them and making appropriate plans for disassembly and preservation or reuse of parts - exactly the considerations people are discussing in this thread.

CRT's use of the term would suggest to me that they have this advice in mind.

  • Greenie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Giant said:

For those fretting about the word "deconstruction", it is a standard term used by National Historic Ships and they publish a whole book about it, Deconstructing Historic Vessels, available as a free PDF from them here. It accompanies two others on Recording Historic Vessels and Conserving Historic Vessels, collectively intended to advise best practices for conserving vessels or, when that is not possible, recording them and making appropriate plans for disassembly and preservation or reuse of parts - exactly the considerations people are discussing in this thread.

CRT's use of the term would suggest to me that they have this advice in mind.

I am certainly not fretting, but perhaps a little bemused. Because one organization uses a word in an incorrect context, and is copied by another organization, does not make it any more correct. The word "deconstruct" was invented by a group of French Philosophers in the 1960's to describe the intelectual examination of written prose, in order to identify what the writer actually meant, rather than taking it's meaning in a literal sense. In their works there is no indication that the word was ever intended to describe the dismantling of physical objects (boats or otherwise).

 

Edited by David Schweizer
Link to comment
Share on other sites

26 minutes ago, David Schweizer said:

I am certainly not fretting, but perhaps a little bemused. Because one organization uses a word in an incorrect context, and is copied by another organization, does not make it any more correct. The word "deconstruct" was invented by a group of French Philosophers in the 1960's to describe the intelectual examination of written prose, in order to identify what the writer actually meant, rather than taking it's meaning in a literal sense. In their works there is no indication that the word was ever intended to describe the dismantling of physical objects (boats or otherwise).

 

Isn't this the wrong way around? You have your own understanding of 'deconstructed' that isn't the same as widely used in historic vessels. It doesn't make it incorrect, quite the opposite

Richard

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, RLWP said:

Isn't this the wrong way around? You have your own understanding of 'deconstructed' that isn't the same as widely used in historic vessels. It doesn't make it incorrect, quite the opposite

Richard

I do not know how big the world of historic vessels is, but I suspect it is very small and rather specialized, and I can see that they could develope their own vocabularuy to describe their own unique procedures, which will be unknown to most people. I can see how the term "deconstructed" could had evolved from the restoration term "reconstructed" but as the earliest reference I can find to it's use is only ten years old, I am not surprised that it has yet to be accepted by the people who write the Oxford Dictionary, assuming they have even heard of it.

Consequently, I am prepared to accept that the word "deconstructed", although not recognised by any British dictionary, can mean more than the authorised definition..

Edited by David Schweizer
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 05/10/2017 at 19:14, Ray T said:

Haven't noticed "Friendship" collapse yet. I was at the museum August this year.

DSCF2910.JPG

For clarity the photograph was taken by me.

I thought there was a bloody big hole in her side

 

On 05/10/2017 at 19:14, Ray T said:

Haven't noticed "Friendship" collapse yet. I was at the museum August this year.

DSCF2910.JPG

For clarity the photograph was taken by me.

I thought there was a bloody big hole in her side

 

1 hour ago, mayalld said:

For those with Facebook, the lift is being live streamed at present

It here 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

When I was at Ellesmere Port in September a museum / CRT employee said the intention was to put the boats taken out of the water, in a large wharehouse near the museum and eventually open the exhibits to the public. He was unable to give me a timescale.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Would have been nice if he had introduced himself. Who is he? "2,000 [miles - slip of a word] canals", likewise [over] 200 years. But he spoke well enough in general.

I think it would be impractical to put the likes of MOSSDALE and SPEEDWELL back in water after dry storage. They'll end up like the SPRY at Blists Hill, and FRIENDSHIP, and probably better for it. More accessible to the public for education like the CUTTY SARK & VICTORY but on a smaller scale of course.

  • Greenie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Derek R. said:

Would have been nice if he had introduced himself. Who is he? <snip>

Graham Boxer C&RT Head of Museums, and, like Richard Parry, a man who does get out and about on the network - I met him a week ago helping to work a pair down through Farmers Bridge, Ashted & Garrison Locks.

 

springy

  • Greenie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.