Help? Changing fit out and more

[captain flint]

OK, so I am not necessarily expecting responses to this thread, it's a bit of a ramble as I know it will be easier to comment if you know where and how I intend to use the boat, so description goes before going into detail... and I'm a bit of a rambler anyway..... but if anyone feels like taking some time to give any advice it will be greatly appreciated.

I'm buying a boat - deposit down, pending survey. I intend to live on it, on a CC licence (based in the SE, coming in and out of London, but I don't particularly want to hang out centrally, much, nor on the Lea that much - I work from home mostly and I think I will prefer quieter, less populated areas, further out West, and pop in centrally now and then to see friends.

I went with head over heart, and went for what I think is a very decent 45 foot wide beam, less than 10 years old, 2 packed from the off, gas, heating (Kabola), 12v (only) electric and water all professionally installed, very neatly and *simply* (even I can understand what's going where!). Been looked after, engine is immaculate. The rest of the fit out is amateur, but very solid indeed, using good quality materials, T & G panelling etc

BUT

I don't particularly like the interior and am intending to change it. In fact, what with the carpet that's been applied to below the gunwhales and beside the doors, along with that on the floor, the lounge has THREE shades of brown carpet in one room! Mmmmmm lovely. Also, portholes only, and rather gloomy. 

To be honest, I would like to keep things simple, and am happy to leave some things as are. But there are some things I want to do. Not much in the way of direct questions here, but plenty to comment on if anyone feels so inclined:

1. Cut two windows in (where there are currently portholes) - I'm in touch with Martin Kedian and intend to do it "his" way, either by hiring him in or he has kindly offered to "remotely advise", I presume for a fee. At this stage the plan is to put in thermal break double glazing from Wesley Windows. [Kedian engineering use a Rage saw to cut through steel and fit out, avoiding the heat issues of a torch, and also the time issues of a grinder]. I am not the handiest

2. Cut some type of hatch or skylight - probably a Houdini hatch, but also considering a pigeon or dog box, depending on price - any opinions on this? Light is the main thing, I want as much light as possible. Again, this is something I've discussed with Martin Kedian, and an option would be for me to send him a cardboard roof profile and he will send the plinth to bolt onto the roof, onto which the hatch can be fitted (again, cutting using a Rage saw). There are two small prisms fitted into the ceiling, which must help, but not that much - I've been in the boat on a sunny day and it was still gloomy. Maybe if they were fitted so that they protruded from the ceiling, rather than inset as they currently are, that might help...? 

3. Replace the carpet in the lounge, galley, bathroom and corridor - both on the floor and the vertical carpet. I am thinking that a floating, engineered floor would be the best bet. Not a massive fan of fitted carpets, but it's the mud and damp issues that really clinch it for me. Any advice about this would be appreciated. Bathroom can be lino, I figure, and I'll probably not change it otherwise. I don't love the style but it's neat and tidy and in good nick, so I think I'll leave it as is, barring switching out the carpet

4. Take out breakfast bar and reposition fridge (currently under breakfast bar), possibly keeping cupboards, possibly replacing, definitely replacing worktops.

I will in all likelihood want to be able to rearrange ballast - so may choose to cut some panels into the floor. There is aready one bang in the middle of the galley part of the lounge, and I think put the flooring round it, and cut something to size to bring it to the same level, then cover it with a mate, or something - good for keeping the galley floor dry, anyway. But, along the sides, might be trickier, in terms of cutting the hatches, then laying the floor on top but so you can remove inspection hatches. Any ideas?

One thing a mate said to me was that considering I am not very experienced at DIY (not completely useless, but not far off), I might be well advised to get someone else in to do all this and get it all done in a week. Does that sound realistic?

Thanks!

[mrsmelly]

First and foremost do absolutely NOTHING until you have lived on it for a while so you have an idea what you need to change as unless you experience it first you will have no real idea.

[dmr]

PortHoles are superb for security and privacy, I suspect this is probably extra important in London. They also give minimal heat loss, and they look good too.

As you are in touch with that nice Mr Kedian why not get a couple of side hatches (with internal glazing) fitted instead then you really can have the best of both worlds.

and what mrsmelly said too.

...............Dave

 

[captain flint]

4 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

First and foremost do absolutely NOTHING until you have lived on it for a while so you have an idea what you need to change as unless you experience it first you will have no real idea.

Thanks for your advicem but....Hmmmm. I should probably tell you that I have lived on a boat before and I know what I like and what I don't. So I'll take some convincing, at least when it comes to windows and hatches, especially as I will have to pay for craning once for a survey - seems sense to do any jobs for which boat needs to be out of the water at the same time. If I leave cutting jobs until later I will end up paying twice for craning, hardly cheap!

I was considering only doing the windows and hatch now, and leaving changing the galley and flooring until later, but it struck me that actually I DO have a real idea of what I like, and one pitfall with buying a liveaboard boat is turning it into a workshop for so long that you lose the "home" feeling, and want to sell it as soon as it's (finally) done up. There's certainly a case to be made to get as much done from the get go as you can, I'm sure. Although that's not to say I dismiss the counter argument you make.

When it comes to the flooring, if I want to remove the carpet and replace with hard flooring - and I do - then obviously any changes to floor layout (e.g. breakfast bar removal) need to be done first. But I was already thinking it might make sense to leave all that until early next year.

On the other hand, it's not necessarily a big job and it could all just get done quite quick, if I can find the cash. Since there's little in the way of real outfitting changing, linings, or anything especially, boat-y, it even occurs to me that I could get my friendly, decent, and well priced Polish builder to come in, and he'd get it done in a few days I am sure. In terms of leaving room for expansion and contraction and stuff like that, it's not rocket science, and we can seek more specialist advice as we go, I should have thought.

To be honest, I want to leave as much as is as possible, including not putting in a stove to see how the Kabola system copes with winter. I love a stove, but they are filthy things, and space is always at a premium, so if I can do without one, I might choose to. Although I might feel the boat lacks "heart" - we shall see. But the death by brown carpet and the lack of light are 100% things I know I will want to change, I would need a personality transplant to want to keep them, however long or short I have been on board!!

But I do know what I like in a living space, I have lived in many spaces, including small ones, and including boats. I love a breakfast bar on a 60 or even 50 foot wide beam, but on a 45? It's taking up precious floor space room. I want the work surfaces, oven, fridge in one corner of the lounge (across the boat, and a third of the way along), with added storage above. If at some later stage I really felt I needed more worktop or storage room, I could always just buy a free standing island unit, which would do the same thing.

[cuthound]

Why not put large windows in the lounge and galley areas and leave the portholes for the more private areas of the boat? Looks better and more practical than large windows everywhere.

Edited October 1, 2017 by cuthound
Spillung

[captain flint]

2 minutes ago, dmr said:

PortHoles are superb for security and privacy, I suspect this is probably extra important in London. They also give minimal heat loss, and they look good too.

As you are in touch with that nice Mr Kedian why not get a couple of side hatches (with internal glazing) fitted instead then you really can have the best of both worlds.

Thanks for your reply

Hatches: The glazing idea is a good one. There is a hatch in the boat, it's kind of at the start of the corridor, hardly in the lounge itself, but obviously lets loads of light in. I was thinking that it would only get opened in summer, but with internal glazing, maybe not. Good point.

Portholes: I know they're secure, but I'm not convinced if someone really wants to get in a boat they won't anyway. There's lots of people CCing in London with windows and they don't all get robbed all the time from what I hear. In any case, I'm not intending staying round some areas which I think are probably more susceptible much (the Lea, Springfield Park, Kensal Rise). As for privacy, curtains do OK, and anyway, I'm not very private! Heat loss - yes. Hence thermal break double glazed. Possibly even better than a single glazed porthole?!  Also, of course, they give a bit more security than some other windows. Nothing a hammer couldn't deal with I shouldn't wonder, but still

I kind of think of feel like if I am living on the cut then I should realise my possessions are not as safe as otherwise, and have attitude to match - and appropriate insurance. Obviously that doesn't make being robbed less horrible, but I would kind of know it might happen sooner or later, hopefully take it in my stride. Obviously having the boat stripped is the worst nightmare, and would be hell (I'd have to go and stay with family for a time, so even more hellish for them, now I think about it). But that's not exactly a common thing, and I recently read about someone's steel doors being bust open with an angle grinder - so not sure portholes would make much difference there. The biggest issue for me would be information/data lost from my computer, but even then, it's backed up to the cloud, so more the worry that people want to pass off my writing as theirs, but, well, ha ha ha ha ha. No chance.

 

17 minutes ago, dmr said:

and they look good too.

They do. And I'll be keeping all but two of them  I don't dislike the way windows look either though, myself

3 minutes ago, cuthound said:

Why not put large windows in the lounge and galley areas and leave the portholes for the more private areas of the boat? Looks better and more practical than large windows everywhere.

That is indeed the exact plan

[MaggieMay]

I came across 'Deck Prisms' as a way of letting light in through the ceiling/roof.through watching this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9qsiQNIlK0

(I have to say that this couple grate on me, and I can't see me watching any more of their offerings.)

 

 

Edited October 1, 2017 by MaggieMay
spelling

[bizzard]

Dey don't werk at noyt tho.

[captain flint]

5 hours ago, MaggieMay said:

I came across 'Deck Prisms' as a way of letting light in through the ceiling/roof.through watching this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9qsiQNIlK0

(I have to say that this couple grate on me, and I can't see me watching any more of their offerings.)

Careful now, they might be reading... Can't believe you didn't even enjoy the hilarious out takes at the end....

The boat I hope will be mine soon does have a couple of prisms in, as it goes. Well, strictly speaking, they're non-prismatic prisms, I guess - in that they're of the bulls eye variety... They didn't seem to do that much on the days I visited, TBH, although of course I never saw what it was like without them in....!

5 hours ago, bizzard said:

Dey don't werk at noyt tho.

And that's why I want regular skylights, none of these namby-pamny daylight-only prisms.

[cuthound]

Err, regular skylights don't work at night either 

  

[Alan de Enfield]

7 minutes ago, cuthound said:

Err, regular skylights don't work at night either 

  

They do !!!

(You can still see the sky)

[cuthound]

26 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

They do !!!

(You can still see the sky)

Well, I've got 2 on my boat and whilst I agree you can see the sky sometimes, when it's dark they don't let any light in, except when you moor in a town centre and the nearby light from streetlights finds it way in. 

[bizzard]

I was working on an old Springer a few years ago and bedroom compartment was in the centre of the boat with no windows or portholes whatever. But it had four oblong prisms up in each corner and the light they let in was very impressive.    Dey would not werk at noyt tho.

[MaggieMay]

6 hours ago, captain flint said:

Careful now, they might be reading... Can't believe you didn't even enjoy the hilarious out takes at the end....

They may indeed, and if I put up a series of videos on Youtube they would be welcome to comment on my presentation style.

I must say that I don't understand the comments about deck prisms not working at night. Nothing lets in light when it is dark, that is why we have artificial lighting. I thought that the prisms let in a decent amount of light whilst preserving privacy, if that is required, and from above rather than through the side, so possibly more effective on dull days.

[ditchcrawler]

3 hours ago, cuthound said:

Err, regular skylights don't work at night either 

  

They do if you moor under a bloody security light like we did at the Titford pump house and had to cover it up.

[captain flint]

7 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

They do !!!

(You can still see the sky)

Exactly. And any light issuing from it, too.

6 hours ago, cuthound said:

Well, I've got 2 on my boat and whilst I agree you can see the sky sometimes, when it's dark they don't let any light in, except when you moor in a town centre and the nearby light from streetlights finds it way in. 

It's hardly their fault if the sky isn't issuing any light now, is it?

(Sorry I think Bizzard's joke is getting a little too well worn, here, especially as many didn't seem to notice it at all)

DISCLAIMER (since it appears necessary ;-) ): I am, truth be told, really only concerned with the amount of natural light that comes into the boat during the day. This goes for prisms and skylights. Sorry to be a party pooper).

[MtB]

8 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

They do !!!

(You can still see the sky)

 

And with a deck prism you can still see the deck...

[captain flint]

7 hours ago, MaggieMay said:

They may indeed, and if I put up a series of videos on Youtube they would be welcome to comment on my presentation style.

Me too, I guess - and I was joking when I aksed f you didn't "even" enjoy the "hilarious" out-takes at the end!